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1681  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: public record, case 13LA09619 won against BFL on: May 20, 2014, 02:20:26 AM
Interesting.  First I've heard of this... I wonder who they served (if anyone in BFL).  You know you really screwed up your "win" when the defendant first hears about a case on an unrelated 3rd party internet forum, heh.

Should be an open and shut case to get this re-opened and dismissed.



How is that dismissal coming?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/204954147/Lolli-v-BF-Labs-Journal-Entry-of-Judgment
1682  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Press Release from BFL regarding the Monarch! on: May 20, 2014, 01:43:54 AM
6 months later...

Nope nothing.

No Monarch.

Competition is shipping 1 TH/s units for as low as $1.57 per gh/s for a self contained miner air cooled including shipping tomorrow. BFL still after 15 months of development has no working miners.




BFL FORUM

Code:
 Quote Originally Posted by BFL_Josh  

Yes, I would like to change it, but I have a sneaking suspicion if I have it
changed now people will pitch a fit about false advertising or something.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm open to arguments about this.

Code:
 Quote Originally Posted by BFL_Josh  

If you order now, I would not expect you to take delivery of your unit until
sometime in February.

Code:
Quote Originally Posted by Captain 

Then seriously, why are you manufacturing this Josh?

Even conservative difficulty inflation projections say that any units
plugged in on January 1st or later will not reach ROI. They are net
money losers. And not a little bit. Why are you even shipping this?
Just shut down the damn line and stop trying to trick people into
paying for something that will not be remotely profitable.

Do you dispute the fact that Monarchs will not earn their money back
if plugged in after January 1? Please tell people whether I am making that up...
1683  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BFL Monarch - Delivery Dates on: May 20, 2014, 01:24:48 AM
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information-2.html#post77863
Quote
03-04-2014, 11:46 PM
deployment of the Monarch will be delayed about 5 weeks from now.

Tomorrow makes 11 weeks, yet not a single working Monarch. A great example of Josh's totally bogus timeline estimates.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information-post79874.html#post79874
Quote
04-19-2014, 04:39 PM
While it is possible we will begin shipping limited quantities by the end of the week of the 21st, it's more likely we will begin shipping the following week

So shipping the week of 4/28 - 5/2? Nope, no working devices yet.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_josh/386-monarch-update-30-april-2014-a.html
Quote
30 April 2014
We plan to begin shipping within the next 10 - 12 days

What's your guess. Did they ship when Josh predicted? Surprise! They didn't. 20 days later and nothing shipped.

The original timeline bait and switch is the most obvious stinking part of the dead dog that is BFL marketing and they continue to promote fantasy lost leader shipping, power and price details on their website. If you order today when can you expect shipping of a Monarch? They do not know. They can not say. That is critical to any miner today especially when the competition is shipping units that are 2x cheaper, the next day with shipping included, and you don't need a PSU, casing and other paraphernalia to get your miner working unlike the 28nm cards that BFL have yet to demonstrate to anyone.

Reality check time BCP:

August 21, 2013 - http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/8/prweb11035951.htm

"The new chip has been in quiet development for the last six months." - Jeff Ownby, Butterfly Labs VP of Marketing

"Initial deliveries of the Monarch are slated to begin in December 2013." - Jeff Ownby, Butterfly Labs VP of Marketing

“If employed today, each device would mine approximately 6 bitcoins every 24 hours.
At the time of this writing, that's over $600 per day. However, it's important to point
out that mining difficulty & bitcoin prices change with great volatility. We can only
guarantee the performance specifications of our hardware, not the market value of
mining with it." - Jeff Ownby, Butterfly Labs VP of Marketing

Number of actual BTC mined since projected December 2013 deliveries. ZERO.

What they really have trouble admitting is that they lied yet again about the 'deliveries'. What this actually means is that BFL has been working on a 28nm chip for well over 15 months, since February 2013. They clearly promoted the shipping as early as December 2013 and they made claims that given that their past experience was so extensive they would not be "delayed" again was the implied reference. The had learned their lessons. Well they learned little in fact what they learned is how continue to lie and cheat their customers with false and misleading information. The court cases of which there are many are certainly well written and anyone can read the complaints that are filed for all these arguments.

"We've learned a great deal with our first ASIC. After an initial delay, that processor
has been shipping in volume for the past few months and is now powering the majority
of the Bitcoin network. For this 28nm version, we were able to use our test bench data
to make major optimizations in both speed and efficiency that would otherwise not be
possible with a first generation design.Our deep involvement with the engineering team
from Global Foundries has further allowed us to maximize our design for their advanced
28 nanometer process." - Butterfly Lab’s chief ASIC engineer John Cheng.


The BFL website makes no mention of when you can expect delivery of a Monarch if you order today. Given that their competition is shipping self-contained units that are 2 to 2.5 times cheaper and shipping in immediately means that anyone purchasing a BFL Monarch today is obviously not aware of either the competition has better products at cheaper price or the fact that BFL has NO working units after 15+ months of development.

No matter what BFL says at this point the Monarch is DEAD. It is way overpriced. It can't be delivered tomorrow nor will it every be delivered in 24 hours after purchase. Saying you have the most efficient chips means nothing if that chip is not on a proven design, hashing and able to be shipped to customers the same day it is purchased. BFL is out. The lies are systemic to the nature of this company. Josh Z. and Sonny V. are not the only people in this organization trying to promote unrealistic and fraudulent timelines. If they were serious about business they would have 100% immediate refund guarantee anytime the customers wanted it. As per FTC rules.



BFL_Josh wrote: on August 20, 2013.

"Yes, I would like to change it, but I have a sneaking suspicion if I have it changed now people will pitch a fit about false advertising or something."

Something prophetic in that statement n'est pas? 6 months later and he is still "not changing" anything.

As they say in Korea.

돌다리도 두드려 보고 건너라.

More appropriately for the poor souls who actually bought a Monarch believing it would get delivered here is one just for you guys.

그림의 떡.
1684  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: ***Spondoolies Tech SP10 - Shipping NOW - 1.4-1.45Th/s - $2,900*** on: May 19, 2014, 12:30:55 PM
2900... ooooooo.... nifty. That is nearing the $2 per gh range. Coupons all used up?
1685  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BFL Monarch - Delivery Dates on: May 19, 2014, 11:27:17 AM
It's truly amazing to see that there are still people who send money to BFL after so many let downs.


Even more amazing people BCP continue to support BFL no matter how obvious the fraud.
1686  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: AntMiner S2 1TH/s Miner Batch 4, Price changes daily, now 2264 USD for 1TH/s on: May 19, 2014, 11:23:35 AM
Pack your miners better please. Almost had a ruined miner.



Happily it is mining away at 1 Th/s after an hour. Please please please fix how you ship the S2, because cards shouldn't be sloshing about in transit.
1687  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: Group Buy Antminer S2 $1650.- May 25th - 32/100 Sold - Official Distributor on: May 19, 2014, 10:10:25 AM
These guys at Bitmain need to pack these miners better.

Price is one thing... but heartache if they break off a cap or something in shipping... dude give them another shout and tell them pack things better.  We were lucky with our modules... nothing busted off.



I do this here as I know you will get this info straight back to Bitmain and ask them to shore things up. We don't want any sad customers. Note this S2 was purchased directly off of the Bitmain page.

I am definitely keen on another miner from you directly at this price point but can I risk this sort of delivery again? Not sure.


Quote
We had to bend a casing bar back so the cards are in position again

   6m54s
1108.02
1008.11

5s avg and average from bootup so it's working ok at least. We will run it for an hour and then port it over to the Datacenter.

Solid product just need to take better care during shipping.
1688  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Should I cancel my BFL 4/2/2013 Order? on: May 19, 2014, 09:53:46 AM
BFL has pretty much admitted they were mining on customers hardware.

Yes in the court documents. Not here in the forum at the time. That is where we all would love dig up all the denials and the defamation of people when they called BFL out on mining with the equipment. Given the defense that BFL is using saying basically no one 'owned' the units while we were testing so you can't claim losses because miners are assigned to customers after the burn in is what they still use today for the Monarch. You purchased a Monarch. You have no claim on hashing a board does before you get it shipped to you. In BFL's mind you have no right to claim ownership even though you supported the development of the card. They use your money to not only fund the development but personal expenses, loans to BFL execs and don't forget the homes. cars and other things that will come out soon enough.

It would be interesting to go back through every BFL post here and check what they said exactly at the time. Refunds were ok now not ok. They only mined on the test net now they were mining for profit on machines that were not owned by customers yet. What other wacky and wonderful things will come out of the Eclipse mining pool. I bet there are plenty of skeletons in that closet that the IRS should rightly audit.
1689  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BFL Monarch - Delivery Dates on: May 19, 2014, 08:48:59 AM
That is why these lawsuits are important and why BFL will need to defend very vigorously or else they are going to lose everything that is left including the house, car and diners club cards and be on the hook for those personal "loans". Ouch.

I wonder how BFL paid $100,000USD to Josh? Did they use pre-order money? Or did they pay him off with "burn-in" testing? Be interesting to have the IRS audit that.
1690  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: ***Spondoolies Tech SP10 - Shipping NOW - 1.4-1.45Th/s - $3,200*** on: May 19, 2014, 08:43:27 AM
There is now a clear separation between SP10 and the A1 clones and S2's in the group buys.

Competition price wise is heating up. It is clear that SP10s is best product package by far not sure people care when prices get separated like this.

It was great to see shipping get thrown in by SpondooliesTech can they throw in more to sweeten the deal?

Glad the HABS lost 7-2... hope the Rangers sweep em.
1691  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Should I cancel my BFL 4/2/2013 Order? on: May 19, 2014, 07:41:26 AM
We all know they were mining for profit via burn in so that dust was infact dust from Eclipse mining facility most probably.

I believe that was a photo of an Avalon with dust and damage, not BFL. AFAIK there is no proof that Avalon mined extensively on the main blockchain, but that doesn't mean they didn't. It would be very tempting to do. We do know that BFL did, since they admitted to it at Sonny's court hearing.

My bad.

There was a thread that indicated dust in BFL machines was there not?
1692  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BFL Monarch - Delivery Dates on: May 19, 2014, 07:39:31 AM
BFL hasn't updated everyone one the new talking points for the Monarch.

He is still using the 2013 script he was issued at dinner with Josh.

All paid for with customer pre-order money. Also well documented that Sonny and others have corporate cards they use for personal expenses.
1693  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: I'm starting to get fucking pissed (BFL) on: May 19, 2014, 06:10:37 AM
if i were u get a refund... why wait? Josh is probably using your miner to mined , he get double and thanks 2 you.

Yes he did mine it... but "before you owned it" according to their defense of the lawsuit.
1694  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Projected Minimum Cost per BTC over the next year on: May 19, 2014, 02:55:02 AM
There really is nothing new to report.  The difficulty continues to climb at about the same rate and the price continues to go down.  This wil not last.  One of these things MUST give.  Either the price needs to go up or the difficulty must stop going up.  Eventually.

I will redo the calculations in a month or two.

Time yet for recalculation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u92O8LSkezY

I am wondering how Mining can be part and parcel of the Sustainocene.

Currently the world uses 16 TW in 2012 and will need an additional 16 TW by 2050. How can mining become sustainable when the direction of mining is to ever larger mining centers?
1695  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Break even (electrical cost = value of BTC mined) difficulty by mining hardware. on: May 19, 2014, 02:49:37 AM
So it looks pretty safe to say that the network will be less than 250 PH/s using the 28nm technology at the current prices.

The replacement cost is calculated based on all hashing power coming from a single design so it shouldn't be taken as likely but more an upper bound.  I think there might be an error in the math as well.

The cost to reach the "break even point" is based on current cost so I don't find it too useful, because cost will decline significantly.  The network will approach a small margin below the break even point.  It is only a matter of time.  You can consider that the equilibrium point, we have seen it occur in the GPU era for a couple of years.  If more efficient hardware is produced then the hashrate will rise, if the exchange rate rises then the hashrate will rise, as mining moves to lower cost areas the hashrate will rise, if the exchange rate falls the hashrate will fall.  However the network will approach and stay close to a margin below the break even point.  How close?  It really depends on miners and what risk they are taking.


Are we now entering the "equilibrium point" for the 28nm ASIC era?
1696  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: {BFL} Newbies PLEASE READ! ~ Least reliable ASIC company? on: May 19, 2014, 01:08:29 AM
Clearly BFL is the least reliable... let us hope the judges in their numerous lawsuits against them also agrees.
1697  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Should I cancel my BFL 4/2/2013 Order? on: May 18, 2014, 06:23:30 PM
Relevant to the latest Monarch situation. It might help others in their exploration of information before shopping with BFL. Also it may give others a pathway to find out where BFL has lied to customers in the past and that might go to their case. Every little bit will help. Clearly they mine before shipping for profit... looking through these threads and recycling what was said will not allow them to cover it up further.  You might know the history... not everyone else does.
1698  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL refunds works flawlessly and fast on: May 18, 2014, 06:18:51 PM
It's good to know that BFL refunds fast and flawlessly if its needed.

I'm not sure how fast and flawless the refunds will be in a month if BFL still hasn't delivered. I imagine all hell will break lose.

BFL Josh has said on their forums that they have the funds on hand to refund 100% of the preorders if necessary.

How things change... interesting.
1699  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL refunds works flawlessly and fast on: May 18, 2014, 06:01:36 PM
If panic, panic first.

What if shipment is delayed to Jan 1013? Feb? March? And many, many people want refunds. Will BFL be able do this? My bet is: No. They don't have that amount of money left ...

It was delayed. Good that you got a refund. Too bad BFL stop giving refunds.



I get that you hate bfl..  I do not like them and waited beyond 13 months to be fully refunded last month.    But you dug up a 20 month old post/thread.

History isn't hate. It is relevant. When you wonder why refunds take 30 to 45 days you start to wonder what the problem is given they were happy to refund before... wonder what has changed.

20 months old? They are playing the same game they did 20 months ago. Selling product that will never be delivered to customers in a reasonable amount of time. You waited 13 months. Those who ordered monarchs in August 2013 have waited 6. See a pattern? Let us not make this about hate or emotion. Let us make this about the facts.

1. They used to give refunds no problem at all.
2. That changed.
3. Nearly 300 FTC complaints and they are still doing it.

Pointing out the pattern is important and it should hopefully make people less inclined to buy their BS.
1700  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BFL banned me from the forums on: May 18, 2014, 03:47:51 PM
Lol! I posted a reply on how to help with achieving a refund from BFL along with information pertaining to the FTC.

vBulletin Message
You have been banned for the following reason:
incessant bickering as well as mass refund hysterics

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

Nothing new. This is the usual way how BFL reacts on criticism: With censorship and bans.

That's one of the reasons why their forums are so full of bootlickers (because everyone else got banned).

Last post by Frizz23 about BFL... I guess he got tired fighting the good fight.
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