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Question: Bitcoin Forecast: What do you expect BTC/USD prices to do in the next 4 weeks?
Up
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Same as now
I don't know

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Author Topic: Bitcoin Forecast, Bitcoin Speculation & Bitcoin Technical Analysis. Up or DOWN?  (Read 503823 times)
mjcmurfy
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November 19, 2011, 06:24:17 PM
 #1561

therefore market will beat manipulator. the sooner, the better, than finally bitcoin can be "used" (cause it is no more a manipulator-zombie).

If you think that people with excessive bitcoin or fiat holdings are going to just stop, you are extremely naive. Market manipulation will continue whether the price is $2, 2c, or $200.

It is not the manipulator who is to blame for the lack of utility of bitcoin. People have been single-mindedly focused on using their coins to play the day trading game, rather than investing them in startup businesses or conducting any actual trade with them. That is why the price is going down, not due to market manipulation.

We have manipulators operating in all of the worlds markets. The reason they are not as successful as they are with bitcoin is because real world markets are backed up by real world economic activity. There is only so much you can crash the price of real assets before the people who actually NEED them will buy.

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November 19, 2011, 06:26:42 PM
 #1562

since the manipulator once again struggled hard to manipulate the price above $2 i suggest it is just a matter of time until the price goes deeper than $1.

the manipulator can't just make the price not going deeper. in order to reach its real worth, bitcoin has to touch its ground at least once.

i really really really doubt that the manipulators bidwalls at 2$ are anything close to a real bottom. therefore market will beat manipulator. the sooner, the better, than finally bitcoin can be "used" (cause it is no more a manipulator-zombie).

I am not sure why you are cheering for BTC to go below $1. The lower the price, the easier it is for said person to manipulate the price. It requires proportionally less USD holdings or BTC holdings which they have demonstrated they have a significant amount of both. Low priced Bitcoin is actually a bad thing in contrary to what you believe.
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November 19, 2011, 06:30:26 PM
 #1563

since the manipulator once again struggled hard to manipulate the price above $2 i suggest it is just a matter of time until the price goes deeper than $1.

the manipulator can't just make the price not going deeper. in order to reach its real worth, bitcoin has to touch its ground at least once.

i really really really doubt that the manipulators bidwalls at 2$ are anything close to a real bottom. therefore market will beat manipulator. the sooner, the better, than finally bitcoin can be "used" (cause it is no more a manipulator-zombie).

I am not sure why you are cheering for BTC to go below $1. The lower the price, the easier it is for said person to manipulate the price. It requires proportionally less USD holdings or BTC holdings which they have demonstrated they have a significant amount of both. Low priced Bitcoin is actually a bad thing in contrary to what you believe.

I could not agree more to that.

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mjcmurfy
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November 19, 2011, 06:33:44 PM
 #1564

since the manipulator once again struggled hard to manipulate the price above $2 i suggest it is just a matter of time until the price goes deeper than $1.

the manipulator can't just make the price not going deeper. in order to reach its real worth, bitcoin has to touch its ground at least once.

i really really really doubt that the manipulators bidwalls at 2$ are anything close to a real bottom. therefore market will beat manipulator. the sooner, the better, than finally bitcoin can be "used" (cause it is no more a manipulator-zombie).

I am not sure why you are cheering for BTC to go below $1. The lower the price, the easier it is for said person to manipulate the price. It requires proportionally less USD holdings or BTC holdings which they have demonstrated they have a significant amount of both. Low priced Bitcoin is actually a bad thing in contrary to what you believe.

+1

I don't know how many times this needs to be stated before people will understand. Maybe if we simply it for them:

LOW prices = EASY to manipulate
HIGH prices = HARD to manipulate

Bears... you are NOT going to get bitcoins much cheaper than this.
We might see about $1.7, MIGHT, but I think those of you who are waiting for <$1.7 are in for a surprise.

There are just too many people now at this stage with a deeply vested-interest in preventing prices going much lower. All they have to do is refuse to sell. If they didn't sell at $32, what makes you think they will panic now at this stage when we are talking about a measly $2? I'd rather lose everything than give coins to people for such a cheap price.

Since the manipulators walls are STILL there after what happened yesterday, you all need to just accept this.

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November 19, 2011, 06:47:37 PM
 #1565

I'd rather lose everything than give coins to people for such a cheap price.

Amen.

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November 19, 2011, 07:07:51 PM
 #1566

therefore market will beat manipulator. the sooner, the better, than finally bitcoin can be "used" (cause it is no more a manipulator-zombie).

If you think that people with excessive bitcoin or fiat holdings are going to just stop, you are extremely naive. Market manipulation will continue whether the price is $2, 2c, or $200.

It is not the manipulator who is to blame for the lack of utility of bitcoin. People have been single-mindedly focused on using their coins to play the day trading game, rather than investing them in startup businesses or conducting any actual trade with them. That is why the price is going down, not due to market manipulation.

We have manipulators operating in all of the worlds markets. The reason they are not as successful as they are with bitcoin is because real world markets are backed up by real world economic activity. There is only so much you can crash the price of real assets before the people who actually NEED them will buy.

..you missunderstood me - i didn't blame the manipulator for pushing the price down, but for manipulating it ABOVE the real-market balance.
i agree with everything else you said - and that is exactly why i predict the next decrease below the $2 - as said before: market will win against manipulator, at least on the long term.



Jonathan Ryan Owens
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November 19, 2011, 07:14:24 PM
 #1567

therefore market will beat manipulator. the sooner, the better, than finally bitcoin can be "used" (cause it is no more a manipulator-zombie).

If you think that people with excessive bitcoin or fiat holdings are going to just stop, you are extremely naive. Market manipulation will continue whether the price is $2, 2c, or $200.

It is not the manipulator who is to blame for the lack of utility of bitcoin. People have been single-mindedly focused on using their coins to play the day trading game, rather than investing them in startup businesses or conducting any actual trade with them. That is why the price is going down, not due to market manipulation.

We have manipulators operating in all of the worlds markets. The reason they are not as successful as they are with bitcoin is because real world markets are backed up by real world economic activity. There is only so much you can crash the price of real assets before the people who actually NEED them will buy.

..you missunderstood me - i didn't blame the manipulator for pushing the price down, but for manipulating it ABOVE the real-market balance.
i agree with everything else you said - and that is exactly why i predict the next decrease below the $2 - as said before: market will win against manipulator, at least on the long term.





Especially as we come to the end of the month (bills) and many mined coins start trickling into the exchange, like Chinese water torture to the existing bid wall(s), nibbling away.

7200 coins a day with a network average P/L of -30%, a significant drop in value from the point ($3) at which miners were barely keeping their heads above water, and finally obvious market manipulation. Most of those coins need to be sold just to cover electric, save the few miners who have free/stolen electricity and/or have plenty of extra fiat to throw away.

With no retracing back to $3, and with obvious downward pressure, it's a matter of days before we start to see the masses start to rebel, cash out and start the process of liquidation to recover (some of) their sunk costs. Tick tock.. tick tock..

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November 19, 2011, 08:45:08 PM
 #1568

since the manipulator once again struggled hard to manipulate the price above $2 i suggest it is just a matter of time until the price goes deeper than $1.

the manipulator can't just make the price not going deeper. in order to reach its real worth, bitcoin has to touch its ground at least once.

Did you ever think that he actually wants the prices to go down?  He sets the bid walls to *temporarily* stop the down trend so that he can sell his coins high, after this is done he wants the price to go down so that he can buy back his coins for cheaper.  Then he needs a small bounce back of course - but when there is a dip after a big bidwall was destroyed then the momentum pushes it deeper then the temporal balance - so the bounce back is kind of guaranteed.   Not that I really know the motives of people setting these bid walls - but this way they could earn on their actions.
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November 20, 2011, 03:36:28 PM
 #1569

since the manipulator once again struggled hard to manipulate the price above $2 i suggest it is just a matter of time until the price goes deeper than $1.

the manipulator can't just make the price not going deeper. in order to reach its real worth, bitcoin has to touch its ground at least once.

Did you ever think that he actually wants the prices to go down?  He sets the bid walls to *temporarily* stop the down trend so that he can sell his coins high, after this is done he wants the price to go down so that he can buy back his coins for cheaper.  Then he needs a small bounce back of course - but when there is a dip after a big bidwall was destroyed then the momentum pushes it deeper then the temporal balance - so the bounce back is kind of guaranteed.   Not that I really know the motives of people setting these bid walls - but this way they could earn on their actions.

I is quite likely that he wants to manipulate the price down. If he was interested to make bitcoin prices rise, he could use his $ purchase power to trigger a couple of forced short liquidations and prices would shoot up massively.

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November 20, 2011, 03:49:50 PM
 #1570

Sometimes I think he even buys his own coins up to try to trigger rallies like that spike to $2.50 last night. He would only lose the .25% fees, which is toilet paper to him, then others start buying his coins up in the ensuing panic. Profit!

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November 20, 2011, 05:33:19 PM
 #1571

since the manipulator once again struggled hard to manipulate the price above $2 i suggest it is just a matter of time until the price goes deeper than $1.

the manipulator can't just make the price not going deeper. in order to reach its real worth, bitcoin has to touch its ground at least once.

Did you ever think that he actually wants the prices to go down?  He sets the bid walls to *temporarily* stop the down trend so that he can sell his coins high, after this is done he wants the price to go down so that he can buy back his coins for cheaper.  Then he needs a small bounce back of course - but when there is a dip after a big bidwall was destroyed then the momentum pushes it deeper then the temporal balance - so the bounce back is kind of guaranteed.   Not that I really know the motives of people setting these bid walls - but this way they could earn on their actions.

I is quite likely that he wants to manipulate the price down. If he was interested to make bitcoin prices rise, he could use his $ purchase power to trigger a couple of forced short liquidations and prices would shoot up massively.


Since today i have a new theory (and i think there was a topic started about this recently).
There is an attempt to create an arbitrage opportunity.
I see ask walls on tradehill and bid walls on mtgox.

mjcmurfy
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November 20, 2011, 05:44:01 PM
 #1572

Since today i have a new theory (and i think there was a topic started about this recently).
There is an attempt to create an arbitrage opportunity.
I see ask walls on tradehill and bid walls on mtgox.

I was thinking the exact same thing!
TH was trading down at 2.03 while MtGox was trading at almost 2.30.
Our manipulator is developing new tactics!!

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November 21, 2011, 12:40:19 AM
 #1573

Since today i have a new theory (and i think there was a topic started about this recently).
There is an attempt to create an arbitrage opportunity.
I see ask walls on tradehill and bid walls on mtgox.

I was thinking the exact same thing!
TH was trading down at 2.03 while MtGox was trading at almost 2.30.
Our manipulator is developing new tactics!!

That uptrend last night happened while Bitcoin deposits to MtGox weren't going through.  When they finally got processed, the trend reversed.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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osmosis
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November 21, 2011, 07:59:03 AM
 #1574

I'd rather lose everything than give coins to people for such a cheap price.

Amen.

Amen
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November 21, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
 #1575

I'd rather lose everything than give coins to people for such a cheap price.

Amen.

Amen

I can pretty much guarantee that this is what I would do.  I planned that from the beginning, and have planned it for every one of my unfortunate rounds of doubling down.  I'm both pig-headed about this kind of thing and also in no particular need of USD.

Another thing is that the original satoshi block chain is a rare and interesting item an who knows what uses for it might pop up in the future.  Having some secret keys with a positive value represented in it could still be worth having.  Worth a shot...or at least it is to me.


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November 21, 2011, 01:19:01 PM
 #1576

I'd rather lose everything than give coins to people for such a cheap price.

Amen.

Amen

Famous last words?

I'll call your bluff.
Also its "cheap" price not "cheap price".

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 21, 2011, 01:28:38 PM
 #1577

I'd rather lose everything than give coins to people for such a cheap price.

Amen.

Amen

Famous last words?

I'll call your bluff.
I seriously don't think the markets going any lower than this... I think everyone who was going to loose money lost it, and the few who have made money are probably in some resort somewhere.

That being said, I am kinda happy these people are gone because now the real test begins...

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November 21, 2011, 01:35:52 PM
 #1578

The irony about it is: The daily non-speculative demand for bitcoins is probably below (!) 7200 coins a day (right now)
So the answer to the problems caused by excessive hoarding is more hoarding?

Are you guys going to stand on mainstreet handing out bitcoin flyers to create demand? What else you gonna do? 'Oh btw, you want this, I have some but I'm not gonna give it to you..'

I would feel very much trolled...

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 21, 2011, 01:43:33 PM
 #1579

The irony about it is: The daily non-speculative demand for bitcoins is probably below (!) 7200 coins a day (right now)
So the answer to the problems caused by excessive hoarding is more hoarding?

Are you guys going to stand on mainstreet handing out bitcoin flyers to create demand? What else you gonna do? 'Oh btw, you want this, I have some but I'm not gonna give it to you..'

I would feel very much trolled...
Based on the conversations that I have had with many intelligent people in this community.

They are building applications that will make Bitcoins do things that would simply be impossible with traditional Fiat currency.

We build demand by doing what we know how to do best and that's BUILD! We all do it in different forms, whether it's building a business or building a program, everything has a process!

Tweet For Coins http://uptweet.com
ElectricMucus
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November 21, 2011, 02:03:33 PM
 #1580

The irony about it is: The daily non-speculative demand for bitcoins is probably below (!) 7200 coins a day (right now)
So the answer to the problems caused by excessive hoarding is more hoarding?

Are you guys going to stand on mainstreet handing out bitcoin flyers to create demand? What else you gonna do? 'Oh btw, you want this, I have some but I'm not gonna give it to you..'

I would feel very much trolled...
Based on the conversations that I have had with many intelligent people in this community.

They are building applications that will make Bitcoins do things that would simply be impossible with traditional Fiat currency.

We build demand by doing what we know how to do best and that's BUILD! We all do it in different forms, whether it's building a business or building a program, everything has a process!

I am glad you get this and I agree.
However talking and doing are 2 things and it has to be done out of genuine thrive not desperation.

But be warned building an economy is a slow process and it will take a while till it's growth can compensate for the declining speculative demand.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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