Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[DPoS]

Gotta throw my 2c in on this...
Saturn was   175  Jupiter was 250
Saturn was   200  Jupiter was 400
Saturn now   260  Jupiter now 520.
(considering my understanding of the last announcement)
I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting the statement correctly,
Although O'rama thinks it may be otherwise...  
That interpretation makes no sense to me, because
unless there is some type of gain in the end result,
there would be no need to mention it.

With that in mind, 250 to 500+ is like...
Wow.

Jupiter was 350.. what u smoking?  I think that post was a typo....

edit.. eh.. I think that was the 'twinkle in their eyes' days of Jupiter

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[Phoenix1969]

Gotta throw my 2c in on this...
Saturn was   175  Jupiter was 250
Saturn was   200  Jupiter was 400
Saturn now   260  Jupiter now 520.
(considering my understanding of the last announcement)
I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting the statement correctly,
Although O'rama thinks it may be otherwise...  
That interpretation makes no sense to me, because
unless there is some type of gain in the end result,
there would be no need to mention it.

With that in mind, 250 to 500+ is like...
Wow.

Jupiter was 350.. what u smoking?  I think that post was a typo....

edit.. eh.. I think that was the 'twinkle in their eyes' days of Jupiter

Have a puff of truth.
then it changed to...

Right to 400, so where did you hear 350....ever?

And now finally....

Forgive me if I seem awed, but that seems pretty spectacular to me!
and fairly plain in fact it is the hashrate which has increased!

It would be good for KNC to confirm this though with actual
expected hashrate values (Hint)  

[vesperwillow]

I don't think KNC is saying anything too far outlandish. Several other 28nm MFG's are claiming stock clockrates of 400-600GH per single chip. Cointerra's 2TH unit is using 4 chips, clocked at a "modest" 500 with OCing room left on the table.

I think it's a situation of "this is what was planned conservatively" vs "this is what the chip is actually doing now that we can see results".

A few test chips were already made/test-run prior to the full batch being laid out.

This is another reason why myself and others keep saying we haven't fully begun to enter the actual difficulty rise. CT is supposed to be shipping 2,000+ TH in one month, KNC is far above that, and so on/so forth. Leaps and bounds above current difficulty.

[Phoenix1969]

I don't think KNC is saying anything too far outlandish. Several other 28nm MFG's are claiming stock clockrates of 400-600GH per single chip. Cointerra's 2TH unit is using 4 chips, clocked at a "modest" 500 with OCing room left on the table.

I think it's a situation of "this is what was planned conservatively" vs "this is what the chip is actually doing now that we can see results".

A few test chips were already made/test-run prior to the full batch being laid out.

This is another reason why myself and others keep saying we haven't fully begun to enter the actual difficulty rise. CT is supposed to be shipping 2,000+ TH in one month, KNC is far above that, and so on/so forth. Leaps and bounds above current difficulty.

agreed, on all points...  meant it in a good way saying "Pretty spectacular"

[Anenome5]

It'll be pretty funny if they just keep adding into the margins. We don't really know how far they're going to go with 'margins on margins on margins.' What if they pull 200+ gigahash per chip out of their pocket in the end Now that would be partytime.

[dwdoc]

I think at this point most would prefer they over perform/over deliver on the shipping date rather than the hashrate.

[Phoenix1969]

I think at this point most would prefer they over perform/over deliver on the shipping date rather than the hashrate.

That would indeed be "The icing on the cake", but I'm not sure about "Rather than"
Hoping more for "In addition to", but not expecting it since the last announcement stated "Towards the end of September"

[Unacceptable]

Any way to get just the miner I couldn't careless about any cost eating case  

[dhenson]

Has there been any movement on the KNC Pool website?  I've not been following as closely as I should and want to make sure I didn't miss the announcement.   I know we have the ability to enter Pool/Username/Worker on our account page, just didn't know if we could create our KNC pool accounts yet.

[eve]

KnC beating around the bush for the Asic Chip.

[Batshit]

Disclosure:  I am a Jupiter buyer and confessed noob (mutually exclusive  )

Question:  Doesn't the announcement that Jupiters can support a max power supply of 1600 W (60% over spec) imply that the hash rate might also be 60% above announced spec?  So, hash rate might be 160% * 400 = 640,000 MH/s?

[dhenson]

Disclosure:  I am a Jupiter buyer and confessed noob (mutually exclusive  )

Question:  Doesn't the announcement that Jupiters can support a max power supply of 1600 W (60% over spec) imply that the hash rate might also be 60% above announced spec?  So, hash rate might be 160% * 400 = 640,000 MH/s?

I think it's safe to assume overclocked they could achieve 500 but 640 would be too much to hope for.  Of course, on this point I would love to be proven wrong.

[Transam808]

Disclosure:  I am a Jupiter buyer and confessed noob (mutually exclusive  )

Question:  Doesn't the announcement that Jupiters can support a max power supply of 1600 W (60% over spec) imply that the hash rate might also be 60% above announced spec?  So, hash rate might be 160% * 400 = 640,000 MH/s?

  Recommended power supply for Jupiter is 850,  Maybe i missed something but i didn't see anything about 1600w on a Jupiter.  

[cambda]

This is another reason why myself and others keep saying we haven't fully begun to enter the actual difficulty rise. CT is supposed to be shipping 2,000+ TH in one month, KNC is far above that, and so on/so forth. Leaps and bounds above current difficulty.

Im sceptical here, they might deliver so much in one month, but who will buy it after the price will be near production costs and way below ROI for minner ?

[rizzman]

Wait your image shows that you will ROI by start of Jan? What the F are you on about then?

Dude, you are smoking fucking crack if you basing your assumptions off of difficulty 3.4 BILLION by March 2014... ASIC manufacturers would have to be selling these things like like toilet paper in order to reach that amount of difficulty and they simply are not going to be able to put that much hash power out quick enough to realize this difficulty within 6 months time.

Why?
A. Because at this point in the game if you didn't get in early enough to make seed capital for further investment, your probably not going to invest/reinvest. Less investors = less rigs = Less Difficulty

B. Guys just like you will continue to scoff at a 20% return (which by the way is an awesome return within 6 months by any measure). And is based off of what you will get worst case if your Genesis Block charts stand correct assuming you have a Jupiter by October. (Referencing your Image, and assuming a switch-off date of March 2013)

C. The equipment that is in use today, will not be in use in 6 months... This shit isn't like CPU's where you still have people rockin Pentium 4's, the life expectancy of a ASIC is directly related to their profitability which as difficulty rises profitability decreases. Which again brings us back to the toilet paper analogy, people would have to be replacing/buy new equipment every 6 months to keep up. and even then, they would be switching off their Avalon batch 3 dinosaurs at this point. I don't see this happening.
 
D.After all the BFL bullshit, Avalon cancelling chip orders, hashfast, cointerra, and all the other so-called 28nm developers soliciting for December, when the the lions share of the potential performance will be ate up, manufacturers will have to be really pushing the envelope on the tech, and this will cost money, definitely within the thousand of dollars. very few other than the rich, and die-hard supporters will be buying in at this point.

E. Among other endeavors I am a firearms dealer and let me tell you some of the dynamics and concerns about flooding the market with product are very real in this business and apply to ASICs. Manufacturers of firearms go to great lengths to ensure they stay profitable and too much product hitting the streets too fast most definitely causes devaluation in this market. Gun manufacturers want to continue charging ridiculous prices for the few pieces of product they make so they limit how much product hits the distributors per month to keep the scarcity high and thus the prices high. This is no different for ASIC Manufacturers. At some point when the dust settles, and the guys that saw an opportunity to make a quick buck shutdown, your going to see ASIC manufacturers throttling the supply, and I firmly believe this is already happening and will only get worse as difficulty rises. They don't want to give these things away, and you can bet your ass they're not going to do it without making a handsome profit.

This is all speculation, however that is the exact point plasmoske, and everyone else in the forum is making. There are lots of mechanics to this whole thing that we don't even know about, let alone can calculate and at the end of the day its a dice roll, you wanna play? Go big or go home. If your too afraid of losing your money, stick with the stock market, or better yet T-Bonds. Just don't expect to make a 20% return within 6 months.

[Miner538]

http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/27319/581a35273189803.jpg
http://thumbnails105.imagebam.com/27319/ec67fe273189799.jpg

Wait your image shows that you will ROI by start of Jan? What the F are you on about then?

Dude, you are smoking fucking crack if you basing your assumptions off of difficulty 3.4 BILLION by March 2014... ASIC manufacturers would have to be selling these things like like toilet paper in order to reach that amount of difficulty and they simply are not going to be able to put that much hash power out quick enough to realize this difficulty within 6 months time.

Why?
A. Because at this point in the game if you didn't get in early enough to make seed capital for further investment, your probably not going to invest/reinvest. Less investors = less rigs = Less Difficulty

B. Guys just like you will continue to scoff at a 20% return (which by the way is an awesome return within 6 months by any measure). And is based off of what you will get worst case if your Genesis Block charts stand correct assuming you have a Jupiter by October. (Referencing your Image, and assuming a switch-off date of March 2013)

C. The equipment that is in use today, will not be in use in 6 months... This shit isn't like CPU's where you still have people rockin Pentium 4's, the life expectancy of a ASIC is directly related to their profitability which as difficulty rises profitability decreases. Which again brings us back to the toilet paper analogy, people would have to be replacing/buy new equipment every 6 months to keep up. and even then, they would be switching off their Avalon batch 3 dinosaurs at this point. I don't see this happening.
 
D.After all the BFL bullshit, Avalon cancelling chip orders, hashfast, cointerra, and all the other so-called 28nm developers soliciting for December, when the the lions share of the potential performance will be ate up, manufacturers will have to be really pushing the envelope on the tech, and this will cost money, definitely within the thousand of dollars. very few other than the rich, and die-hard supporters will be buying in at this point.

E. Among other endeavors I am a firearms dealer and let me tell you some of the dynamics and concerns about flooding the market with product are very real in this business and apply to ASICs. Manufacturers of firearms go to great lengths to ensure they stay profitable and too much product hitting the streets too fast most definitely causes devaluation in this market. Gun manufacturers want to continue charging ridiculous prices for the few pieces of product they make so they limit how much product hits the distributors per month to keep the scarcity high and thus the prices high. This is no different for ASIC Manufacturers. At some point when the dust settles, and the guys that saw an opportunity to make a quick buck shutdown, your going to see ASIC manufacturers throttling the supply, and I firmly believe this is already happening and will only get worse as difficulty rises. They don't want to give these things away, and you can bet your ass they're not going to do it without making a handsome profit.

This is all speculation, however that is the exact point plasmoske, and everyone else in the forum is making. There are lots of mechanics to this whole thing that we don't even know about, let alone can calculate and at the end of the day its a dice roll, you wanna play? Go big or go home. If your too afraid of losing your money, stick with the stock market, or better yet T-Bonds. Just don't expect to make a 20% return within 6 months.
7

+1

[FUKT]

This is another reason why myself and others keep saying we haven't fully begun to enter the actual difficulty rise. CT is supposed to be shipping 2,000+ TH in one month, KNC is far above that, and so on/so forth. Leaps and bounds above current difficulty.

Im sceptical here, they might deliver so much in one month, but who will buy it after the price will be near production costs and way below ROI for minner ?

The only people who worry about ROI are those who are mining bicoin purely for profit. In every thread on the hardware forum people are constantly whining about their precious ROI. My suggestion is instead of acting like parasitic profiteers, ask yourself 'how could I help further the bitcoin community?' The obvious answer from most people might be that without miners there is no bitcoin, which is true to some extent. But it seems a large proportion of profiteers cannot see past their own greed. My suggestion is that while bitcoin is still in its infancy try to educate and implement bitcoin wherever you can. Would you rather have a bubble driven currency? Or a currency that people will see as the standard?

[Anenome5]

The only people who worry about ROI are those who are mining bicoin purely for profit. In every thread on the hardware forum people are constantly whining about their precious ROI. My suggestion is instead of acting like parasitic profiteers, ask yourself 'how could I help further the bitcoin community?' The obvious answer from most people might be that without miners there is no bitcoin, which is true to some extent. But it seems a large proportion of profiteers cannot see past their own greed. My suggestion is that while bitcoin is still in its infancy try to educate and implement bitcoin wherever you can. Would you rather have a bubble driven currency? Or a currency that people will see as the standard?

This is mistaken on so many levels.

Mining for profit and ROI is not greed, it is an investment. You can mine for altruism if you want, but the rest of us feel fine mining for both profit -and- to prop up the network.

If you want something done and done right, find a way for people to make a profit doing it. It is not parasitic to profit! How dare you say so. It is parasitic to demand or imply that people should still mine when they're not profiting. There is not greater way to weaken the bitcoin network then to mine when it is unprofitable, thus preventing the difficulty coming back to reality. The mining power on the network will always be maximized when the profit from mining is just over the electricity costs on the average mining device.

[Madazam]

This is another reason why myself and others keep saying we haven't fully begun to enter the actual difficulty rise. CT is supposed to be shipping 2,000+ TH in one month, KNC is far above that, and so on/so forth. Leaps and bounds above current difficulty.

Im sceptical here, they might deliver so much in one month, but who will buy it after the price will be near production costs and way below ROI for minner ?

The only people who worry about ROI are those who are mining bicoin purely for profit. In every thread on the hardware forum people are constantly whining about their precious ROI. My suggestion is instead of acting like parasitic profiteers, ask yourself 'how could I help further the bitcoin community?' The obvious answer from most people might be that without miners there is no bitcoin, which is true to some extent. But it seems a large proportion of profiteers cannot see past their own greed. My suggestion is that while bitcoin is still in its infancy try to educate and implement bitcoin wherever you can. Would you rather have a bubble driven currency? Or a currency that people will see as the standard?

+1

Amen to that ....use to think like that before

[Biomech]

This is another reason why myself and others keep saying we haven't fully begun to enter the actual difficulty rise. CT is supposed to be shipping 2,000+ TH in one month, KNC is far above that, and so on/so forth. Leaps and bounds above current difficulty.

Im sceptical here, they might deliver so much in one month, but who will buy it after the price will be near production costs and way below ROI for minner ?

The only people who worry about ROI are those who are mining bicoin purely for profit. In every thread on the hardware forum people are constantly whining about their precious ROI. My suggestion is instead of acting like parasitic profiteers, ask yourself 'how could I help further the bitcoin community?' The obvious answer from most people might be that without miners there is no bitcoin, which is true to some extent. But it seems a large proportion of profiteers cannot see past their own greed. My suggestion is that while bitcoin is still in its infancy try to educate and implement bitcoin wherever you can. Would you rather have a bubble driven currency? Or a currency that people will see as the standard?

This.

I will take it a step further and try to appeal to that same greed, but with some thought behind it. You want these devices to be profitable longer? Find ways to make bitcoin more generally accepted. Right now it's a niche. A rather big niche, but still small cap stuff. Greed is not all negative, but it has to be moderated by thought and principle. At current exchange rates, the lifetime of these devices is pretty short. Not due to hardware failure, but due to diminishing returns. But if the value of the bitcoin doubles in that same period, it will significantly extend the life of the miner. If more things become priced in bitcoin rather than traditional fiat, it will extend even further, as the marginal value of a bitcoin becomes much more than simply it's fiat exchange rate.

For the purpose of full disclosure, I currently have no skin in the game and have not decided which company to go with when I do jump in. KNC is my first choice so far, but there are others that interest me. Bitfury is their closest competitor in my estimation, as they have already delivered and are clearly on track for October with their big unit. I do not expect to catch the leading edge, and I'm good with a 10 to 20 percent ROI over the near term, so long as it allows me to build capital in bitcoin for the next generation of miners (or to buy up large quantities of this generation as the prices drop. I have extensive knowledge of power generation, so If I'm making that sort of return, I can invest in that as an adjunct)