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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006524 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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August 27, 2013, 01:40:55 AM
 #7221

yes IF the miner is designed for it.

What do you mean designed for it?  As far as the miner is concerned it is Ethernet.  Nothing special that it has to be designed for.  The miner has no idea (nor does it care) that downstream packets are traveling over a wireless link, a copper link, a sonar link, a tin can link, or smoke signal link.  It sends Ethernet (100BaseTX) packets and gets back Ethernet packets.  That is the whole point.
Hmm, after a momentary lapse of reason... I think you'r absolutely correct.. If it can navigate to the web on an RJ45 connection, it shouldn't care if there is a wireless connection downstream or not.
So, with that in mind, I think we'll need a wifi router on each side? The cable/internet provider gives you one with the service, which doesnt care what wifi device is connecting, but in our case, it will be another wifi router, hardwired to the miner, instead of a dongle or built in wifi... 
Am I on the same page now?

I think so but the way you worded it I am not sure.  Assuming the user already has a wifi router (and who doesn't) they just need to buy a bridge router and then they can plug their miner into that.


ASCII Art for the Winz

==== [Cable Modem] ---- [Existing Wifi Router] ^^^^^^ [Bridge Router] ----- [Miner]

==== Coax Cable
----- RJ-45
^^^ Wireless Link
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August 27, 2013, 01:45:57 AM
 #7222

yes IF the miner is designed for it.

What do you mean designed for it?  As far as the miner is concerned it is Ethernet.  Nothing special that it has to be designed for.  The miner has no idea (nor does it care) that downstream packets are traveling over a wireless link, a copper link, a sonar link, a tin can link, or smoke signal link.  It sends Ethernet (100BaseTX) packets and gets back Ethernet packets.  That is the whole point.
Hmm, after a momentary lapse of reason... I think you'r absolutely correct.. If it can navigate to the web on an RJ45 connection, it shouldn't care if there is a wireless connection downstream or not.
So, with that in mind, I think we'll need a wifi router on each side? The cable/internet provider gives you one with the service, which doesnt care what wifi device is connecting, but in our case, it will be another wifi router, hardwired to the miner, instead of a dongle or built in wifi...  
Am I on the same page now?

I think so but the way you worded it I am not sure.  Assuming the user already has a wifi router (and who doesn't) they just need to buy a bridge router and then they can plug their miner into that.


ASCII Art for the Winz

==== [Cable Modem] ---- [Existing Wifi Router] ^^^^^^ [Bridge Router] ----- [Miner]

==== Coax Cable
----- RJ-45
^^^ Wireless Link
Got it... yes just what I meant... Thanks for clarifying.


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arousedrhino
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August 27, 2013, 01:48:53 AM
 #7223

Ok I will ask for refund and I will see

yay! get lost, better for me!
I doubt he even has an order...Why would someone cancel out being so close to delivery? Not a single delay...With such fabulous confirmation? Seems downright suspicious to me. Maybe he just needs the money, ... or a bit tight on cash at home maybe.

I agree, anybody with an order knows their refund policy.
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August 27, 2013, 01:53:37 AM
 #7224

Just a thought for people doubting KnC refunds policy.
Imagine you are in their shoes. You funded the manufacture already and are weeks from having a batch delivered...then in an extreme scenario half the orders cancel and want a refund. You're "stuck" with all those fully completed machines ready to rock and roll that cost you nowhere near the price you sell them to customers for...so ROI for them if set to work hashing would be a breeze. So you set them to work.

Deliver on time...no problem, no refunds to speak of.
Deliver last minute or a little late, more refunds but the rigs will make you some handsome returns mining alongside the hosted ones (with their juice bill probably subsidised by the hosting fees). They are in a great position as far as difficulty and ROI are concerned compared to us.

I don't know the cost to KnC of a Jupiter, but it's safe to say that them being left with a few won't hurt their bottom line too much so they haven't much to lose by refunding anyone who bottles it.
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August 27, 2013, 01:53:42 AM
 #7225

Wow..  Just Freaking Wow..

So glad I got out just in the nick of time..



Market & Hardware Parameters
KnCMiner
Jupiter

1
Hardware Values
Hash Rate (GH/s)   
Power Use (W)   
Cost of Hardware
($)
 
Initial Mining Date   
2013
October

 
Additional Costs
Shipping Costs   
Misc Costs (psu, cables, etc)   
Pool Fee (%)   
Network Stats
Current Difficulty (MM)   
Difficulty Increase / Month
(%)
 
Conversion and Electricity
Conversion Rate ($/BTC)   
Conversion Increase / Month (%)   
Electricity Costs ($/kWh)   


Mining Payout Scheduleby The Genesis Block
USD
Display Currency

Share your analysis:   
Break Even Period:   140 days   Total Fixed Costs:   $7250
Max Profit:   $361 (May-14) - 4.97%   Monthly Power Costs:   $60.5
Month   Difficulty (MM)   Time per
Block (days)   Monthly Revenue   Monthly
Profit   Cumulative
Return
Oct-13   204   25   $3,530   $3,470   $(3,780)
Nov-13   358   45   $2,010   $1,950   $(1,830)
Dec-13   631   78   $1,140   $1,080   $(749)
Jan-14   1110   138   $648   $588   $(161)
Feb-14   1954   243   $368   $308   $146
Mar-14   3439   427   $209   $149   $295
Apr-14   6053   752   $119   $58   $353
May-14   10654   1324   $68   $7   $361
Jun-14   18751   2330   $38   $-22   $338
Jul-14   33002   4101   $22   $-39   $300
Aug-14   58083   7218   $12   $-48   $252
Sep-14   102226   12704   $7   $-53   $198

Just to put your absurd calculations to reality.

January Difficulty of 1110M would be 7 Petahash (7000TH)

You're next calculation of February shows that close to doubling at 13 Petahash (13,000TH)

Then if we move on to the next absurd calculation of March at around 25 Petahash (25,000TH) you start to see how retarded using a % calculation becomes.

Now for some more perspective!

7 Petahash = 17,500 Jupiters = 70,000 Packages = 280,000 ASIC Chips (Remember each one of KnC's Packages has 4 "Chips" inside)

Are you starting to see how unbelievable your calculations are now?

If for some reason it did get to 7 Petahashes with all the other vendors coming online, do you honestly think it will go to 13 in a Month? and then 25 the next month?

Do you think anyone will buy a machine for $5,000 in January when it is making $300/month and dropping?

*Mind Blown*


Not my Calculation Bro..  But yes I can see how the truth can be painful..  Dont hate..  It will make a great paper weight.


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August 27, 2013, 02:09:55 AM
 #7226

Seems more like someone doesn't know how to use the genesis calculator. If It's not your calc, why did you post it?
You know there is a share link at the top of the calc window on genesis?

Or you could do what I just did.
It's fairly distinct wouldn't you say?
This is with a ridiculously high % per month increase in Diff (76%), and no increase in BTC value/dollar,  which I consider worst case scenario.


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erschiessen
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August 27, 2013, 02:27:18 AM
 #7227

Oooh, 450 GH/s
I like the way you think!

Your Message Here
12KHW3i2Hamk1irY8b181N4vMXUnVYL1ah
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August 27, 2013, 02:31:17 AM
 #7228

 Grin
Oooh, 450 GH/s
I like the way you think!
Hehe, I was actually thinking higher, but wanted to be conservative, as we've been told so many times about the Gh/s estimates being absolute minimums...
Same goes for the 900 watts, because the 1000 watts was an absolute maximum, etc...
For instance, my three Saturns are guaranteed to run at 200GH/s each, but with their overhead, and now Sam saying we will be able to overclock them on the coindesk interview, I'm really thinking I'll be able to make much, much more...  Because the min #gh/s being what it is, the actual should be as they say, higher by a considerable margin;   and that's without overclocking... now add overclocking capability, and even the possibility of Watercooling them(Not confirmed yet), we now have Sleeping Dragon, Crouching Tiger... and who knows what the possibilities are.
I'm stoked.


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August 27, 2013, 02:32:17 AM
 #7229

You don't have Kuroth on ignore?  Why not?
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August 27, 2013, 02:41:43 AM
 #7230

You don't have Kuroth on ignore?  Why not?
I have a vested interest in KNC being successful, so I decided it was best to Beat back the Naysayers with honest answers.   Wink


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tolip_wen
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August 27, 2013, 02:46:00 AM
 #7231

an excellent reason to use wifi indeed, would stop a cablemodem, or dsl modem spike in its tracks.... but if I'm not mistaken, most wifi routers are already pre-configured as you say, with up-link on the RJ-45 side & down-link on the wi-fi side... or am I missing something?

Perhaps you are missing a spike on the AC line?

WiFi will not negate the lightning hazard thru the AC.

A smart miner will have a surge protector AT the miner.
Surge protectors with telco, coax, and ethernet ports are common.
A UPS would be even better so you can mine thru brown/black outs.
You would need a very big UPS to mine for more than a few minutes during a blackout though.

Everything in the chain needs lightning/surge protection!
Miners will come to a screeching halt if your upstream equipment goes poof.

Even though I posted a link to a WiFi solution I do not advocate WiFi for mining.
There are security/reliability issues.

'twisted research and opinion' donations happily accepted @
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bcp19
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August 27, 2013, 02:48:48 AM
 #7232

You don't have Kuroth on ignore?  Why not?
I have a vested interest in KNC being successful, so I decided it was best to Beat back the Naysayers with honest answers.   Wink
Hasn't he like bought and gotten refunded on like 3 different companies so far?

I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
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August 27, 2013, 02:50:06 AM
 #7233

an excellent reason to use wifi indeed, would stop a cablemodem, or dsl modem spike in its tracks.... but if I'm not mistaken, most wifi routers are already pre-configured as you say, with up-link on the RJ-45 side & down-link on the wi-fi side... or am I missing something?


Perhaps you are missing a spike on the AC line?

WiFi will not negate the lightning hazard thru the AC.

A smart miner will have a surge protector AT the miner.
Surge protectors with telco, coax, and ethernet ports are common.
A UPS would be even better so you can mine thru brown/black outs.
You would need a very big UPS to mine for more than a few minutes during a blackout though.

Everything in the chain needs lightning/surge protection!
Miners will come to a screeching halt if your upstream equipment goes poof.

Even though I posted a link to a WiFi solution I do not advocate WiFi for mining.
There are security/reliability issues.

The origonal conversation stemmed from different utility companies sharing/not sharing grounds, so if your cable internet isn't sharing pole grounds on the way to your home, and gets hit by lightning instead of the POWER line, which IS grounded on every pole, it would indeed lessen the risk of lightning strike spike from the internet line, stopping at the wifi, instead of in your miner.


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CMMPro
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August 27, 2013, 02:55:17 AM
 #7234

You could use a TPLINK Nano router....all of $19.
You just use it in "client mode".

http://www.tp-link.com/ca/products/details/?model=TL-WR702N

I have one....it works fine to make any non-wifi network device into a wifi device.
DeathAndTaxes
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August 27, 2013, 03:03:13 AM
 #7235

The origonal conversation stemmed from different utility companies sharing/not sharing grounds, so if your cable internet isn't sharing pole grounds on the way to your home, and gets hit by lightning instead of the POWER line, which IS grounded on every pole, it would indeed lessen the risk of lightning strike spike from the internet line, stopping at the wifi, instead of in your miner.

Yeah it is all about reducing risk.  No surge protector is lightning proof.  A direct lightning strike is beyond the capability of any surge protector. Ohms law and all that.  With circuits in parallel the relative current through each circuit is the inverse of the relative resistance of each circuit.   Surge protectors work by creating multiple low resistance circuits to the ground (which only exist at high voltage).  With multiple circuits and much lower resistance, due to Ohms law most of the current flows there.  The key word is "most".  Most is never 100% (that would require perfectly zero resistance to ground).  The problem is in a direct strike we are talking about 100 kA (100,000 amps) so most is not going to be good enough.  Without any attenuation due to miles of wire the full current slams into the surge protector, and even if it does an amazing job and shuts away 99.99% of the current , 0.1% is still over 100 amps.  That is smoke city.  

Buy a surge protector but it is not a magic bullet.    

TL/DR: Direct lightning strike = equipment dies.  End stop.
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August 27, 2013, 03:07:47 AM
 #7236

The origonal conversation stemmed from different utility companies sharing/not sharing grounds, so if your cable internet isn't sharing pole grounds on the way to your home, and gets hit by lightning instead of the POWER line, which IS grounded on every pole, it would indeed lessen the risk of lightning strike spike from the internet line, stopping at the wifi, instead of in your miner.

Yeah it is all risk management.  Also nobody should believe a surge protector (any surge protector) can withstand a direct lightning strike, ohms law and all that.  Surge protectors work by creating a parallel circuit to shunt most of the over current to the ground.  With circuits in parallel with differing resistance current through each circuit is inversely proportional to the relative resistance of the circuit.  The only way 100% of the current is shunted is if the resistance to ground is exactly zero (an impossibility).  The ground circuit has much lower resistance so most of the current flows to the ground.  Key word is most, a lightning strike can be 100,000A.  With a direct strike (i.e. powerline outside your house is hit) most is not enough.  If 99.99% flows to the ground that still means the 0.1% which flows to your equipment is >100A.  That is smoke city. 

Buy a surge protector but it is not a magic bullet.   

indeed, agreed... Just looking at all the protection possibilities


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tolip_wen
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August 27, 2013, 03:14:08 AM
 #7237

You could use a TPLINK Nano router....all of $19.
You just use it in "client mode".

http://www.tp-link.com/ca/products/details/?model=TL-WR702N

I have one....it works fine to make any non-wifi network device into a wifi device.

Don't forget you will need to wire it to your power supply or get a USB wall wart.

'twisted research and opinion' donations happily accepted @
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August 27, 2013, 03:17:18 AM
 #7238

The origonal conversation stemmed from different utility companies sharing/not sharing grounds, so if your cable internet isn't sharing pole grounds on the way to your home, and gets hit by lightning instead of the POWER line, which IS grounded on every pole, it would indeed lessen the risk of lightning strike spike from the internet line, stopping at the wifi, instead of in your miner.

Yeah it is all risk management.  Also nobody should believe a surge protector (any surge protector) can withstand a direct lightning strike.   Ohms law and all that.  Surge protectors work by creating a parallel circuit to shunt most of the over current to the ground.  We use the term "ground" but there is a non-zero resistance on the ground circuit.  With circuits in parallel with differing resistance current through each circuit is inversely proportional to the relative resistance of the circuit.  So the circuit to ground has very low resistance relative to the circuit through your miner and thus most of the current flows there.  The key word is most.  A lightning strike can contain 100,000A.  If your surge protector shunts away 99.9% of the current, it means 100A still flows through the PUS.  That is a more than enough to destroy the PSU.  Now PSU has a fuse which will melt due to excessive current but no fuse is instantaneous and for a large number of milliseconds the connected equipment is going to be vulnerable.

Buy a surge protector but it is not a magic bullet.   

Having a UPS would also help, but they can be expensive.

I do not suffer fools gladly... "Captain!  We're surrounded!"
I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
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August 27, 2013, 03:28:19 AM
 #7239

I've actually been using my Verizon/android phone's hotspot to mine, which works fine when using a computer to host the miners. The Units I'll be getting are actually going to be set up about 4000 miles from my home location, by me, and then I'll be going back home. So other than the usual tech call to my hired confidante, I wanted to explore every option of protection I could employ that would help... weather we decide to use it or not. Why 4000 miles away you ask? Electric is .43/kwHr here in Hawaii. Nuff said.


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August 27, 2013, 03:50:46 AM
 #7240

I've actually been using my Verizon/android phone's hotspot to mine, which works fine when using a computer to host the miners. The Units I'll be getting are actually going to be set up about 4000 miles from my home location, by me, and then I'll be going back home. So other than the usual tech call to my hired confidante, I wanted to explore every option of protection I could employ that would help... weather we decide to use it or not. Why 4000 miles away you ask? Electric is .43/kwHr here in Hawaii. Nuff said.

Wow, and I thought my .17 was bad.
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