Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[ASIC-K]

+1

220 comes into the home, then is split into 110 volt for appliances. big stuff like dryers and stoves, hot water heater etc use 220.

[Bitcoinorama]

of course they have it
but is not for public
is secret miner

You've made some silly comments before, and now you are well and truly in Eve's territory. Do you honestly not thing you wouldn't notice the effect of their secret 28nm private mine.

Trust me you will know when they have their chips, the network will have a huge jump and then a levelling, which is why the Genesis block is so inaccurate; we already know KnC's shipping plan: A three week jump, not an exponential double, double, double.

Genesis Block's calc prediction will never happen the way people read it, never.

It will be a big spike and a level, a step up to 28nm.

Think about it, and likewise their super secret mine you are claiming would be very noticable, and not so secret!

[Bitcoinorama]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol

I never knew. That said though our (EU) voltage (especially Germany) is a lot more flexible, you can step a lot higher, but I doubt people will want to turn their houses into datacentres in the long run. If you do you could prob host other peoples kit, which would be a business in itself...

[Phoenix1969]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol

I never knew. That said though our (EU) voltage (especially Germany) is a lot more flexible, you can step a lot higher, but I doubt people will want to turn their houses into datacentres in the long run. If you do you could prob host other peoples kit, which would be a business in itself...

I could be mistaken, but I'm thinking 60hz could step higher than 50?
But of course we have 3 phase vs. ?  Not that this matters any....

[noodle73]

We'll all be sending our miners to data centres in Russia at this rate - Russia 2.4 to 9.58 c/kw according to Wikipedia

[oper128]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol

I never knew. That said though our (EU) voltage (especially Germany) is a lot more flexible, you can step a lot higher, but I doubt people will want to turn their houses into datacentres in the long run. If you do you could prob host other peoples kit, which would be a business in itself...

I could be mistaken, but I'm thinking 60hz could step higher than 50?
But of course we have 3 phase vs. ?  Not that this matters any....

Frequency is irrelevant here.

[vesperwillow]

[northcape]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol

I never knew. That said though our (EU) voltage (especially Germany) is a lot more flexible, you can step a lot higher, but I doubt people will want to turn their houses into datacentres in the long run. If you do you could prob host other peoples kit, which would be a business in itself...

I could be mistaken, but I'm thinking 60hz could step higher than 50?
But of course we have 3 phase vs. ?  Not that this matters any....

The point of single phase 120V versus single phase 230V is that requires twice the current to transfer the same amount of power. Frequencies have nothing at all to do with this.

The high voltage connections you are talking about are three-phase (commonly 120*sqrt3 = 200V in US, 230*sqrt3 = 400V in EU).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity

Europes electricity standards are far more advanced than the US from todays standpoint.

[oper128]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol

I never knew. That said though our (EU) voltage (especially Germany) is a lot more flexible, you can step a lot higher, but I doubt people will want to turn their houses into datacentres in the long run. If you do you could prob host other peoples kit, which would be a business in itself...

I could be mistaken, but I'm thinking 60hz could step higher than 50?
But of course we have 3 phase vs. ?  Not that this matters any....

Frequency is irrelevant here.

Oh, so if you open your faucet by another 20%, nothing extra comes out? In our(Pete & I) business, (alt. energy studies) frequency drive is Quite relevant.

P=UI*cos(fi) as far as I remember. Maybe cos(fi) for the same device (like PSU) will be a little different when powered with different frequency, but I don't expect it to be much different. 220V vs 110V gives you half of the current with the same power, and less current means thinner cables etc

Edit: northcape explained it earlier

[timmmers]

You pay VAT on things you PURCHASE, not on things you create. Not all things you purchase attract VAT either, gold and currency for example don't among many other items.
VAT is a way for government to collect tax from the consumer by using businesses to do this. VAT is also 20% not 23% here. If you can claim the VAT back, you can more than likely claim the computer equipment as a capital business expense and get some of the cost back from the tax man too.

Hi Timmers, sounds like you might be in the UK (sorry if I've made a gross assumption here). I've been wondering this for a while and you (or others) may have an accountancy background and may be able to advise. My understanding is that if you're a VAT registered business in the UK then you can buy items for the business without VAT (or claim it back in your quarterly VAT return), but you are then obliged to collect VAT at 20% for any goods or services that you provide to your customers (unless they are also a VAT registered businesses) and fill in a quarterly VAT return for HMRC where all of this is calculated.

I presume that if you are buying mining hardware for your business and your business does not use this to provide a VATable service to a customer then you presumably don't need to pay any VAT (which I think is what you're saying above). You would just need to pay tax on the income that the miner generates for the business. The only danger with this setup might be that if the business is not charging anybody VAT (so not providing any other goods or services) then HMRC might revoke the business' VAT-registered status. If you were to buy a miner without VAT and then sell it to a customer then it's clear that you would need to charge the customer VAT on the price of the miner. Here's the difficult one - if your business buys a miner and then sells shares in that miner (or shares in what it produces depending on your outlook) to customers then do you need to collect VAT on top of the price of the shares that you sell? If the miner technically remains the property of the business, but shares are sold that return a proportion of the miner's output (perhaps with some hosting fee applied by the business) then what part of that transaction is VAT applicable to (is the hosting fee the service)? Any thoughts anybody?

(By the way, when I say "you" above I'm talking about a hypothetical business by the way, not you or anybody else personally)

VAT is a minefield, that's why many businesses in the UK stay under the threshold to avoid the hassle. I think the mining business could be one where it is simple enough and beneficial to be registered though.

My mate is a freelance programmer, he is also his own limited company. He is VAT registered as his turnover is above the threshold.
This makes him more expensive to pay by 20% but as he works for large companies they claim that back...this is what is a the pest, the paperwork for nothing. What is cool though is that all his equipment and allowable expenses are fed to the tax man, and any VAT he pays he can recover. He is a small business and pays an accountant but doesn't need to really.
I asked him about this and was thinking of getting him to pay for my rig, then he could claim back that VAT and some tax relief too. His accountant said no problem. Even with the purpose of this bit of computer equipment being to mine coins..he said the same thing I thought...how would anyone know that? It's office equipment to them and they won't have a scooby doo what a bitcoin is, and even if they did...what amount would they tax you on? He said that the tax man would probably come into it when you made a capital gain selling BTC. Either way they can't check what you have. lol

AFAIK there's no VAT on shares in a company..I've never paid any. If the business was well set up I'd bet that only services provided to customers would attract VAT. I'd definitely consult a decent VAT accountant though. One thing about the VAT man, he's got some really kickass powers and can make a mess of you if you get it wrong.

You can also mitigate that power cost if you're a company. I think a lot of people with big mining setups could do well registering a company for less than 100 quid and registering for VAT and just making a loss ...getting all the perks on what they buy and what power is used. I used to claim 1/4 of my home lecky bill when I was working from there, that's very normal.

[Bitcoinorama]

You may also want to check about associated equipment and rent of a room in your house, or discount in your rent (if renting) as if you run your kit from where you live, there's a ew bits you can claim back. For sure VAT on elec bills as well as an associated business cost. Anything theat brings elec., down and pays you back for using your premeisis to hosty your equip is def a good thing.

Again my thinking is you get penalised as and when you convert coins to fiat currently as it's cap. gains.

[Ytterbium]

of course they have it
but is not for public
is secret miner

You've made some silly comments before, and now you are well and truly in Eve's territory. Do you honestly not thing you wouldn't notice the effect of their secret 28nm private mine.

Trust me you will know when they have their chips, the network will have a huge jump and then a levelling, which is why the Genesis block is so inaccurate; we already know KnC's shipping plan: A three week jump, not an exponential double, double, double.

Genesis Block's calc prediction will never happen the way people read it, never.

It will be a big spike and a level, a step up to 28nm.

Think about it, and likewise their super secret mine you are claiming would be very noticable, and not so secret!

People will notice, but we'll have no way of knowing it was them.  Could be Cointerra, HashFast, Alydian, BTCGarden or any of the other companies springing out of nowhere to crank out ASIC products.

[rizzman]

We'll all be sending our miners to data centres in Russia at this rate - Russia 2.4 to 9.58 c/kw according to Wikipedia

I was able to find space mainland USA with 2c offpeak & 3.5 cent peak rates, which is where the miners are going...
Yes, it means I have to fly there initially.

Where were you able to find it so low? Please tell... Been looking myself and the lowest i've found is @ .08/kwh..

[klee]

Meanwhile:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.msg3082030#msg3082030

[Phoenix1969]

We'll all be sending our miners to data centres in Russia at this rate - Russia 2.4 to 9.58 c/kw according to Wikipedia

I was able to find space mainland USA with 2c offpeak & 3.5 cent peak rates, which is where the miners are going...
Yes, it means I have to fly there initially.

Where were you able to find it so low? Please tell... Been looking myself and the lowest i've found is @ .08/kwh..

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. Keep looking, you should be able to find it.
I thought I was smart finding it, only to find other miners already there. That's the best I can do for now under NDA.

[Ytterbium]

Meanwhile:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.msg3082030#msg3082030

Yeah.  Bitfury is hashing like crazy. And KnC will soon be as well. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Bitfury actually added a support ticket to have blockchain.info add them to their chart but they haven't done it yet.

[Mota]

We'll all be sending our miners to data centres in Russia at this rate - Russia 2.4 to 9.58 c/kw according to Wikipedia

I was able to find space mainland USA with 2c offpeak & 3.5 cent peak rates, which is where the miners are going...
Yes, it means I have to fly there initially.

Where were you able to find it so low? Please tell... Been looking myself and the lowest i've found is @ .08/kwh..

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. Keep looking, you should be able to find it.
I thought I was smart finding it, only to find other miners already there. That's the best I can do for now under NDA.

damn you! now I have to search the internet for hours before pm'ing you with the question with whom you have the nda!

[Nemo1024]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol (But it's also @ 60 hz, instead of 50)

So, it's like Northern European houses, where you have 230v 2-phase for everything and 380V 25A 3-phase for kitchen ovens:

[jlsminingcorp]

You pay VAT on things you PURCHASE, not on things you create. Not all things you purchase attract VAT either, gold and currency for example don't among many other items.
VAT is a way for government to collect tax from the consumer by using businesses to do this. VAT is also 20% not 23% here. If you can claim the VAT back, you can more than likely claim the computer equipment as a capital business expense and get some of the cost back from the tax man too.

Hi Timmers, sounds like you might be in the UK (sorry if I've made a gross assumption here). I've been wondering this for a while and you (or others) may have an accountancy background and may be able to advise. My understanding is that if you're a VAT registered business in the UK then you can buy items for the business without VAT (or claim it back in your quarterly VAT return), but you are then obliged to collect VAT at 20% for any goods or services that you provide to your customers (unless they are also a VAT registered businesses) and fill in a quarterly VAT return for HMRC where all of this is calculated.

I presume that if you are buying mining hardware for your business and your business does not use this to provide a VATable service to a customer then you presumably don't need to pay any VAT (which I think is what you're saying above). You would just need to pay tax on the income that the miner generates for the business. The only danger with this setup might be that if the business is not charging anybody VAT (so not providing any other goods or services) then HMRC might revoke the business' VAT-registered status. If you were to buy a miner without VAT and then sell it to a customer then it's clear that you would need to charge the customer VAT on the price of the miner. Here's the difficult one - if your business buys a miner and then sells shares in that miner (or shares in what it produces depending on your outlook) to customers then do you need to collect VAT on top of the price of the shares that you sell? If the miner technically remains the property of the business, but shares are sold that return a proportion of the miner's output (perhaps with some hosting fee applied by the business) then what part of that transaction is VAT applicable to (is the hosting fee the service)? Any thoughts anybody?

(By the way, when I say "you" above I'm talking about a hypothetical business by the way, not you or anybody else personally)

VAT is a minefield, that's why many businesses in the UK stay under the threshold to avoid the hassle. I think the mining business could be one where it is simple enough and beneficial to be registered though.

My mate is a freelance programmer, he is also his own limited company. He is VAT registered as his turnover is above the threshold.
This makes him more expensive to pay by 20% but as he works for large companies they claim that back...this is what is a the pest, the paperwork for nothing. What is cool though is that all his equipment and allowable expenses are fed to the tax man, and any VAT he pays he can recover. He is a small business and pays an accountant but doesn't need to really.
I asked him about this and was thinking of getting him to pay for my rig, then he could claim back that VAT and some tax relief too. His accountant said no problem. Even with the purpose of this bit of computer equipment being to mine coins..he said the same thing I thought...how would anyone know that? It's office equipment to them and they won't have a scooby doo what a bitcoin is, and even if they did...what amount would they tax you on? He said that the tax man would probably come into it when you made a capital gain selling BTC. Either way they can't check what you have. lol

AFAIK there's no VAT on shares in a company..I've never paid any. If the business was well set up I'd bet that only services provided to customers would attract VAT. I'd definitely consult a decent VAT accountant though. One thing about the VAT man, he's got some really kickass powers and can make a mess of you if you get it wrong.

You can also mitigate that power cost if you're a company. I think a lot of people with big mining setups could do well registering a company for less than 100 quid and registering for VAT and just making a loss ...getting all the perks on what they buy and what power is used. I used to claim 1/4 of my home lecky bill when I was working from there, that's very normal.

Thanks timmers and bitcoinorama, that's useful. So it seems that HMRC do have a view on BTC apparently (http://www.coindesk.com/hmrc-uk-bitcoin-exchanges-dont-have-to-register-under-money-laundering-regulations/), who'd have thought it - very progressive . No word on VAT, but sounds like you're quite right with the cap. gains, which is what I would have expected too.

[klee]

Double digits?