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Author Topic: Official FutureBit Moonlander 2 Driver and Support Thread  (Read 68925 times)
Finless
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February 27, 2018, 10:01:22 AM
 #1181

jstefanop,

Your opinion please on temps.

I have 2 of your sticks.  One I bought from you on Ebay and the 2nd from Holybit.
Both sticks are doing great now that I have spent quite a bit of time tuning them.  FUN hobby to be honest especially for mining n00bs Smiley

I am running both at clock of 796.  Using a 6 AMP PS.
Both stick are running .70V on memory (I can get .68 on one) and .79V on core.
Error rate on one is less than 1% and the other is about 1.5%. The one I got from you on Ebay is the better stick.  Not that it mattered really but the error rate is always lower on this one.

I use a heat gun probe tool to measure the small back heat sink and it runs about 153F.  Knowing chips a bit 153F is OK.

So now the question.  When I jump to 832 clock I get an error on both sticks under 3% but both show an error rate of about 2.4ish.
Still all good. BUT the back heat sink runs about 162F.  I think this is pushing it no?  FYI Ambient temp in my room is 75F average right now.

Is 162F OK for the back heat sink?  What is the max temp on this to be careful of reaching?  Back in my old chip days 175F was about it before stuff starts losing a lot of life big time.

Your thoughts on temps please Smiley

Thanks jstefanop.  Your stick rocks for the hobbiest and I am loving them.  I just don't want to go to far and I want to be aware of proper temps.  I see some guys running these MAX out and they have to be smoking hot doing so.... Again your thoughts on temps.

Thanks,
Bob


I know your question was to jstefanop and I am not trying to answer it, and I am sure he will do that but I just wanted to comment that as I read your post three times to make sure you didn't mention anything about running external fans to cool with.

I am fairly certain that anyone running these things full bore are also running external cooling. I am running these 6 at also 796 Mhz but I have two cheap USB flex fans on them and the hottest temp I got on the back heat sink (side without the fan) is 43° C (109° F) ...  quite a difference just two cheapo USB flex fans can make. 109°F vs 153°F ...


https://www.bit2dollar.com/image/6_796_ML2.jpg


I put that large text up there so I didn't cheat you out of an answer from jstefanop - not to be obnoxious.





I have seen your videos and have seen what you have done.  Yea I get it.  I may do the same one day.  THANK YOU!
So since you have been solo mining (per your videos) running these full bore, looking for a lottery hit, have you hit a block yet?

Anyway thanks... I have seen your posts and video... Not ready to go there fully yet but I get it Smiley

Thanks,
Bob
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February 27, 2018, 11:09:08 AM
 #1182

What usb hub do you use? I have 12 babys and want to squeese the most out of them

Greets
Mike
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February 27, 2018, 12:09:42 PM
 #1183

What usb hub do you use? I have 12 babys and want to squeese the most out of them

Greets
Mike

I have 11 and use the Eyeboot 19 port hub. The reason I bought that one is because better hubs fram Amazon didn't ship to my country. While the hub looks great, and it probably is, I only have trouble with it.
1) I cannot run all 11 at full speed (924Mz), that doesn't work. So I have a mix of frequencies to make it just work. I can live with that
2) The USB ports are just a bit too close so in reality one can use only every other USB port, this seems to be a common issue with many USB hubs, but not all.
3) The USB connectors used on eyeboot hubs seem a bit weak, jstephanop also pointed this out. Because of the constant vibrations from the minifans eventually some may break down. I have at least one where both power pins and data pins suck and connection a/o power gets interrupted. In effect I am loosing more and more USB slots
4) It is hellish expensive

A few pages back someone showed a setup with smaller hubs with 2MLDs per hub and he had four of those hbs daisychained. That seems to me the best solution in terms of cost, reliability and performance.
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February 27, 2018, 12:18:39 PM
 #1184

I have the 49 port usb eruptor (the red one) with a 5v30A psu

Im not able to get all 12 work stable at 600mhz

I look for a nice solution to ramp up the speeds and have a stable run on all 12 simultaniousely

I dont find even a usb hub that gives enough power... Sad
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February 27, 2018, 12:19:44 PM
 #1185

Your opinion please on temps.
... I use a heat gun probe tool to measure the small back heat sink and it runs about 153F.  Knowing chips a bit 153F is OK.
... BUT the back heat sink runs about 162F.  I think this is pushing it no?  
Is 162F OK for the back heat sink?  What is the max temp on this to be careful of reaching?  Back in my old chip days 175F was about it before stuff starts losing a lot of life big time.

Back in the old days people read the instructions first Smiley -- see page 1 of this thread:

Quote
Even with a fan built in, you can still overheat your Moonlander at higher frequencies. I do not recommend running these past 800mhz unless you can closely monitor temps (if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C).

Everyone using these beyond 800Mhz uses external cooling (fans). 162F = 72C which is getting borderline, 153F = 67C is really hot. I am running at around 35C = 95F.


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February 27, 2018, 06:39:10 PM
 #1186

Your opinion please on temps.
... I use a heat gun probe tool to measure the small back heat sink and it runs about 153F.  Knowing chips a bit 153F is OK.
... BUT the back heat sink runs about 162F.  I think this is pushing it no?  
Is 162F OK for the back heat sink?  What is the max temp on this to be careful of reaching?  Back in my old chip days 175F was about it before stuff starts losing a lot of life big time.

Back in the old days people read the instructions first Smiley -- see page 1 of this thread:

Quote
Even with a fan built in, you can still overheat your Moonlander at higher frequencies. I do not recommend running these past 800mhz unless you can closely monitor temps (if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C).

Everyone using these beyond 800Mhz uses external cooling (fans). 162F = 72C which is getting borderline, 153F = 67C is really hot. I am running at around 35C = 95F.




My bad...  I missed this one line. And yes I have read page one many times.  I just missed the one single line on the temp subject.

"if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C"

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F.  To me this seems OK then?  Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.

So why do I need another fan?  I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

Bob

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February 28, 2018, 09:41:43 AM
 #1187

Have a bit of an odd problem.  Just started playing with the ML2 and a Pi3.  Runs ok at 756 freq & have used it on multipools.  Runs fine on port 7777, the multiport, but put in a single coin port like Dnote port 3346 and it displays the blurb 'check address port etc.'  Any one else experience this?  I used the same start file changing the port in terminal & also a copy with the port.  Both are the same about the address error. Change in terminal back to port 7777 and it runs fine.
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February 28, 2018, 11:12:07 AM
 #1188

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F.  To me this seems OK then?  Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.
far below?? well below?? Seriously, all that is given is that the chip hasn't fried itself, just yet. Good luck! You are operating at the edge of it's operating range, and while 153F is within limits by all accounts it is seriously hot. 176F is not a safe operating limit, but a potential fry and die limit. You also have to be aware of changes in ambient temperature, if the ambient rises, so goes the chip temp. In general, even if it runs, you will shorten lifespan if it gets that hot over long time.

Quote
So why do I need another fan?  I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.
When you are overclocking you are on your own, and you want to do everything reasonable to keep the babies alive. Alive==cool. 832 == overclocking. But yeah, it's not that you MUST have cooling. But you should! jstephanop wrote a good comment on this a few pages back, when one guy had 8 MLDs running at 5.5Mh/s or thereabout. You should read it. I run at 924Mhz with about 0.7%HW and ca 45C core. AND extra cooling (usb fans).  Some ppl remove the stock fans --> you are on your own, even at normal clockspeeds. 10% is way too high at normal clockspeeds. You should have less than 1% at 600Mhz.
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February 28, 2018, 01:13:26 PM
Last edit: February 28, 2018, 02:05:06 PM by pugmagician
 #1189

I have a question, I just went to adjust my voltage pot and the damn top part came off. I was wondering what pot was used on this so I could buy one and replace it.

Also could I just use a 1.5 ohm resistor in order to get the .75 Volts, and what solder points would I use for it if I could. I imagine one of them is one the core voltage probe point.
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February 28, 2018, 03:15:06 PM
 #1190

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F.  To me this seems OK then?  Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.
far below?? well below?? Seriously, all that is given is that the chip hasn't fried itself, just yet. Good luck! You are operating at the edge of it's operating range, and while 153F is within limits by all accounts it is seriously hot. 176F is not a safe operating limit, but a potential fry and die limit. You also have to be aware of changes in ambient temperature, if the ambient rises, so goes the chip temp. In general, even if it runs, you will shorten lifespan if it gets that hot over long time.

Quote
So why do I need another fan?  I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.
When you are overclocking you are on your own, and you want to do everything reasonable to keep the babies alive. Alive==cool. 832 == overclocking. But yeah, it's not that you MUST have cooling. But you should! jstephanop wrote a good comment on this a few pages back, when one guy had 8 MLDs running at 5.5Mh/s or thereabout. You should read it. I run at 924Mhz with about 0.7%HW and ca 45C core. AND extra cooling (usb fans).  Some ppl remove the stock fans --> you are on your own, even at normal clockspeeds. 10% is way too high at normal clockspeeds. You should have less than 1% at 600Mhz.


I did not say I get 10% an normal clock speed.  I am below 1% at 796 but above 10% at 832.  Even when they are ambient and I start up.  So it's not heat related I get 10% at 832. It starts above 10% and stays that way.  And I have tried increasing core voltage to .85 and still get that.  PSU is 5 amp. Anyway I am running at 796 just fine on both sticks. Good enough for me.  And yea in my first message I said my ambient temp of 75F during the day thus running 153F at the hottest at 796 clock. Obviously at night I am running less than 153F (about 145F).

I will consider your extra fan but reading jstephanop note, "they should run fine up to 800".  And I am able to get memory voltage to .73V no problem.  Core is running at .75V

I have a friend with a machine shop and he could easily make a larger rear heatsink (longer fins) but it doesn't look easy to remove the existing heatsink.

Bob
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February 28, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
 #1191

I was running Moonlander 2 for a couple of weeks, from internal USB of the laptop and had stable 4.7MHz/s speed at 832 freq.
Now, I got a good quality 2A USB hub. I put the core voltage slightly up and frequency 852. For a couple of hours it gave me speed of 4.9MHz/s and then stopped. I put the voltage back to previous position but now, no matter what frequency I put I get a speed of 3.1-2.4 MHz. Anybody knows how to check if I damaged the device? E.g. is there a way to check number of alive cores?

Thanks!
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March 01, 2018, 07:19:36 AM
 #1192

Thanks so much guys, I grabbed a few of these just to play around with (and a few other brands as well) ,mainly to get my feet wet.  Can't wait to get the big guns!!!!
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March 01, 2018, 03:21:34 PM
 #1193


... ~ ...

So why do I need another fan?  I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

Bob


We're fighting heat, and thermal cycling.

At all times, a lower operating temperature is desirable. It reduces errors and failures, and improves device efficiency.

Keeping supplemental cooling on these reduces the range of thermal cycling. Even at lower clock speeds, a fan on the back sink will improve the lifetime of the device. When overclocked but not properly cooled (if the stick didn't die), the chips do suffer and become more prone to throwing errors. In some cases, this persists due to chip damage.

As an aside, I know that the chips in my other stick miners are designed to operate at 40C, so that's where I try to keep them (maybe a touch cooler).

Coining bits since 2017 
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March 01, 2018, 08:45:06 PM
 #1194

jstefanop,

Is it ok to use your photo of the MLD2 on my website to show the detail of it? I can not get a good angle and a clear shot with this camera phone I have.
Thank you
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March 01, 2018, 09:25:52 PM
 #1195

Hi

what are your thoughts on these fans to replace Stock fan, bit pricey i know but don't fancy running these with no fan with summer coming up

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071W6JZV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a4x10-5v

40x40x10 5v currently out of Stock but i think they do about 8 CFM

have 4 MLD2 total, 2 each on Anker® 60W 7-Port USB 3.0 Data Hub

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VE4UJD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but 1 MLD has not been very happy the last few weeks with hashing go down to 2.5 if frequency was set above 800 and today it sounds like a rocket ship so taken it out of hub
until i get a replacement fan, i'm also running one 120cm USB fan to help airflow

Thanks
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March 01, 2018, 09:29:12 PM
 #1196

Hi

what are your thoughts on these fans to replace Stock fan, bit pricey i know but don't fancy running these with no fan with summer coming up

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071W6JZV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a4x10-5v

40x40x10 5v currently out of Stock but i think they do about 8 CFM

have 4 MLD2 total, 2 each on Anker® 60W 7-Port USB 3.0 Data Hub

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VE4UJD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but 1 MLD has not been very happy the last few weeks with hashing go down to 2.5 if frequency was set above 800 and today it sounds like a rocket ship so taken it out of hub
until i get a replacement fan, i'm also running one 120cm USB fan to help airflow

Thanks

before buying new fans you should try to fix the ones you have.

carefully take the sticker off the back and using a needle poke the rubber o-ring that holds the shaft in place and take it off.. the easiest way is to do it the long way and just push the needle straight through it. dont worry about breaking the o-ring, you dont need to put it back on.

then just pull the fan apart, using some white lithium grease put it back together..



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March 01, 2018, 10:32:57 PM
 #1197

Quote
before buying new fans you should try to fix the ones you have.

carefully take the sticker off the back and using a needle poke the rubber o-ring that holds the shaft in place and take it off.. the easiest way is to do it the long way and just push the needle straight through it. dont worry about breaking the o-ring, you dont need to put it back on.

then just pull the fan apart, using some white lithium grease put it back together..

ok will try that, but would need to buy some white lithium grease, which i don't have, will this do https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00W6Q3B7U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Thanks


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March 01, 2018, 10:37:27 PM
 #1198

I have a question, I just went to adjust my voltage pot and the damn top part came off. I was wondering what pot was used on this so I could buy one and replace it.

Also could I just use a 1.5 ohm resistor in order to get the .75 Volts, and what solder points would I use for it if I could. I imagine one of them is one the core voltage probe point.
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March 01, 2018, 10:54:33 PM
 #1199

Your opinion please on temps.
... I use a heat gun probe tool to measure the small back heat sink and it runs about 153F.  Knowing chips a bit 153F is OK.
... BUT the back heat sink runs about 162F.  I think this is pushing it no?  
Is 162F OK for the back heat sink?  What is the max temp on this to be careful of reaching?  Back in my old chip days 175F was about it before stuff starts losing a lot of life big time.

Back in the old days people read the instructions first Smiley -- see page 1 of this thread:

Quote
Even with a fan built in, you can still overheat your Moonlander at higher frequencies. I do not recommend running these past 800mhz unless you can closely monitor temps (if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C).

Everyone using these beyond 800Mhz uses external cooling (fans). 162F = 72C which is getting borderline, 153F = 67C is really hot. I am running at around 35C = 95F.


My bad...  I missed this one line. And yes I have read page one many times.  I just missed the one single line on the temp subject.

"if you have a IR temp gun check the top ASIC heatsink, it should not be any hotter than 80C"

That is 176F and I am far below it at 153F.  To me this seems OK then?  Even at 832 clock and 163F this is still well below 176F.

So why do I need another fan?  I cannot go above 832 clock as I get too many hardware errors (over 10%) on these even cranking up the core voltage.

Bob

80C at the top of the small heatsink translates to about 90C chip core temp. I would not go above this for prolonged periods of time, but anything below 80C is actually quiet cool for an ASIC (especially for scrypt ASICs, since they don't have a very large compute die). I would not worry unless you reading temps past 80C.

The main issue with heat is actually more stress on the mosfets, since these chips scale very badly with heat (current draw reaches exponential curve as the chip temp goes up). Your most likely to fry the mosfets/cause a overheat buck shutdown than kill the asic. 

Project Apollo: A Pod Miner Designed for the Home https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4974036
FutureBit Moonlander 2 USB Scrypt Stick Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2125643.0
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March 01, 2018, 10:59:16 PM
 #1200

I have a question, I just went to adjust my voltage pot and the damn top part came off. I was wondering what pot was used on this so I could buy one and replace it.

Also could I just use a 1.5 ohm resistor in order to get the .75 Volts, and what solder points would I use for it if I could. I imagine one of them is one the core voltage probe point.

How did you manage that? These pots are pretty good with abuse, but either way all it takes is a very small screwdriver and some very fine and lite movements to change the voltage. Im assuming you went crazy on it and turned it way more than 180 degrees.

Pots are no where near 1.5 ohm...top one is around 5k and bottom is 100k if I remember correctly.

Project Apollo: A Pod Miner Designed for the Home https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4974036
FutureBit Moonlander 2 USB Scrypt Stick Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2125643.0
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