Merit & new rank requirements

[Taras]

This will be fun for sure. If I had to come up with a suggestion, I'd say consider not rounding sMerit down in the personal merit page; seeing .5 at the end shouldn't be a problem for this forum and it would reinforce that sending 1 Merit does not waste any sMerit.

[1714137940]

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[JayJuanGee]

I have 10 merits and I thought I could give out five. Yesterday I gave out one and today was going to give out one more but when I tried it said "You do not have enough sendable merit".  So I'm really confused about how much I'm allowed to send. Could I have sent five yesterday instead of one? I thought we could send half the total merits we held.

At any rate I think the merit system is AWESOME and should bring higher quality post to the forums. Genius idea!  

You send sMerits, not Merits. When you receive 1 Merit, you also get 0.5 sMerits. You would have some number of sMerits to start off, and you may have exhausted your supply.

Ohhh sMerit. Okay, so I sent one sMerit yesterday and now I can't send anymore. Thought I could send 4 more but guess I started out with only one. I would have used it much more sparingly picking a much higher quality post if I knew I only got one to send starting out.  

At first I misunderstood several aspects of this whole system too, and I think that we have to attempt to learn it and then let it run for a while, and see how it plays out.

Hopefully, members will not be reluctant to spend their sendable merit, and hopefully, sources will be able to identify a variety of meritorious posts from more junior members in order that those more junior members will both be able to receive merit to rank up and to also receive smerit to share the smerit that they acquire.

By the way, I sent you one of my smerit, which turns into your merit, and if someone else gives you another merit, then you will have one smerit to spend (from the combination of the two received merits).  Building little by little. 

Okay thanks! And you're right this will take some time to learn. A learning cure for me that's for sure.

And thank you for the sMerit. I looked and it says "You have 0 sendable merit (sMerit) which you can send to other people." So if I get one more sMerit then I can send one sMerit to someone else - correct? But what I'm really wondering, if I get one more sMerit will those other 4 sMerits come back? Surely I didn't have 4 sMerits decay (disappear) in less than 48 hours. I started out with 10 Merits so I should have 5 sMerits right?

I think that you are confusing some information in the Op that says that Theymos had set up the smerts in such a way that it drew from your level of activity in the past year and your current rank, and if you were active in the last year you could perhaps earn the maximum, which would not be greater than half of your merit. 

Just take myself for example, I believe that I was active in every activity period in the last year, so I earned 14 activity points every two weeks, and I was awarded 1,000 merits based on my being legendary; however, I only received 200 smerits (which would be 1/5 of my merit count).  I don't know how the ratios might differ from person to person, but maybe Theymos was overstating the case a little bit when he said that you would receive smerits amounting to no more than half of your merits, when likely a more accurate reflection would be that even the most active members were likely only receiving about 1/5 or perhaps less if you were less active in the past year?

So, I am presuming that you did not lose 4 smerits, and you likely only had 1 smerit in your total smerit bank at the time that this new system was implemented. 

[Mitchell]

This will be fun for sure. If I had to come up with a suggestion, I'd say consider not rounding sMerit down in the personal merit page; seeing .5 at the end shouldn't be a problem for this forum and it would reinforce that sending 1 Merit does not waste any sMerit.

I have suggested this to theymos like ten minutes ago, haha. I really think that it would clear up some of confusion about this new system.

[asapjoshyy]

no stress amigo... i like the system guidelines but i definitely think some tinkering is needed.. people thinking 100+ merits will be easy to come by is unreasonable... from full member to senior member is 150 merit points, it will be difficult to even get 1 day , 150 days almost half a year to just rank up from full member to senior member is very unrealistic IMO... i think the merit needed to rank up should be tinkered down a bit , but the basic principle behind this is a very good idea, of course when something is brand new theres room for improvement, i hope the admins look at the suggestions and do some changes

especially people who were very close to ranking up get screwed in this scenario, i think people who were closer to ranking up shouldve got more then the baseline merit points.... only makes sense , why would i get 100 merit points being 2 weeks away from Senior Member but somebody who just became Full Member this week is at the same spot as me now , when i was months ahead?

Also helping newer members will give literally 0 merit because they have none to give, and higher ranks said they would scout the forums but theyll  realistically give like 1 merit when they see somebody helping once in a while.... so i help 15 people and get 1 merit??? Not very positive or enticing at all

There could still be other users that see your helpful reaction to a newbie user and give you merit for that, including the merit sources.

The amount of merit required is a bit stringent, but it does prevent people from "aging" accounts just for the purpose of selling.

In addition, as you can see in a lot of early posts, it is possible to get 10 or more merit from a single post.

i very highly doubt itll happen like that imo.... people will help newbies and newcomers with advice and probably get 1 merit every 10-20 times they give help.... to get 100 merit points it will take months... Imo i like the system but I think people that were about to rank up shouldve had more base Merit to start then people who just got the rank, only makes sense imo... A fair system wouldve been you get as much merit as your activity to start then you need the certain amount after that to rank up .... 150 merit when im 2 weeks away from senior member is very unfair imo, it will take like half a year when i was 14 days away, being a normal member on the forum.... im sure other people have the same thoughts, and all the people who are Hero member+ are happy because theyre already past that lol, I like how the forum is trying to change and improve no doubt but some tinkering should be made i think, well see what happens... or everybody should be given merit for a certain amount of posts that are over 100 words or something

[JayJuanGee]

This will be fun for sure. If I had to come up with a suggestion, I'd say consider not rounding sMerit down in the personal merit page; seeing .5 at the end shouldn't be a problem for this forum and it would reinforce that sending 1 Merit does not waste any sMerit.

I have suggested this to theymos like ten minutes ago, haha. I really think that it would clear up some of confusion about this new system.

Could you suggest to Theymos, also that we would be able to round down to 8 decimal places in sending out merits, in order to more closely replicate our bitcoin/crypto experiences?   

[qiman]

Can someone here kindly tell me how do I give a merit? I would also like to contribute to good posters in my way of saying thank you to the value they give and also the knowledge they impart to us on a daily basis. I do not know where the merit giving button is. 

[asapjoshyy]

Can someone here kindly tell me how do I give a merit? I would also like to contribute to good posters in my way of saying thank you to the value they give and also the knowledge they impart to us on a daily basis. I do not know where the merit giving button is.  

click merit top right of somebodys post cheers gl
a new window will come and you can do it there, itll also say how much you can transferable

[siddartha1492]

I do like this new system of ranking up. It will certainly help in stopping spam, and maybe even alt accounts. Although some people might go more aggressive and make multiple accounts to cross merit their posts and rank up. Other thing that is sure to happen is BCT members creating telegram groups to cross merit each other. This system is pretty much like Steemit, and will certainly be abused. Higher ranks means more money and so money grabbers will surely unite! I merit you, you merit me. That's what gonna happen.

Clearly higher ranked members have got a huge relief here. They won't have to go through the struggling period!!

As for me, I will be meriting good posts made by lower ranked members so that they can also climb the ranks. The only issue is that "high-quality post" is a very subjective topic. What is a high quality post? Is it a post with lots of expertise and 100% correct English/local language (in local board)? Is it a post with 1000+ words? Is it a post made by a member with all green trust? If these things make up for a high quality post then I guess most members will never rank up, which might be very disappointing for many members as most of them (including me) are not crypto experts, but crypto enthusiasts.

So overall, I think the intention behind merit system is very good, but it will now create a new class of Bitcointalk members, known as merit farmers! No system is perfect and I hope the benefits of this system outweigh its drawbacks.

[B4RF]

Just saw this Merit change and think its a good idea to prevent spam posts.
But I am a bit confused... did I get 500 Merit as a Hero Member although I have an activity above 700?
Someone who just got Hero Member would get the same I guess although I have at least 50% higher activity.
Why didnt they use some kind of percentage progression?

[Brunus]

....
I've no idea how many fantastic post I should write to have the hope to  receive the 90 merit I need to become Full Member.
Probably after some post without any positive feedback, I'll simply give up, and I'll stop posting.
And for sure, newbies and Jr.Member will do the same.
...
Of course, may be I'm completely wrong (I'd like to be), and it will be very easy to receive merit and to rank up, in the meanwhile we can keep shitposters away.

Wow, I received two merits (I'm pretty surprised) from two unknown members, so it seems that it's possible to grow (now, I only need 88 to become full member...)

Btw, there is an aspect that - although mentioned somewhere by theymos - it seems that it wasn't discussed enough.

I mean, I received TWO sMerits: this produces TWO more Merits, but I can give only ONE sMerits. If I give this sMerit to someone, my sMerits go down by one, but I keep all my Merits.
Well, I already have a little headache, but I understand.
But... this means that the global quantity of sMerits decreases costantly, and IMHO, very fast.

Let's do some math: a Legendary has 1000 sMerits, for example. He is very generous and gives - to ten members he appreciates very much - 100 sMerits to each one. Now, they have grown up by 100 Merit, but they only have 50 sMerits to give away. In this passage, 500 sMerits simply disappeared and the global mass is 500 sMerits less!

If they do the same, at the next passage there will be only 250, then 125,... the quantity will tend to zero very fast.

If this happens on global scale very soon there won't be any sMerit to give; I understand that there is a kind of monthly mining, but it can replace all what is lost: I understand that the system started with 600.000 sMerits: well, if all sMerits are given, they become 300.000, then 150.000...
How could they be replaced by a 8.000 sMerits from mining?

If the sMerit was a coin, this could be an deflaction system to create scarsity, and the value os a sMerit will grow constantly: the last coin will have the value of the starting global valutary mass.
In our case, I can't figure what will happen so I'm very curios.

Sincerely, I've the feeling that the system will crash very fast (or, better, it will stall: nobody will receive any merit) , but - as I'm pretty sure the this aspect was analyzed from the creators of the system - may be there is something I don't grasp.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

[TheQuin]

Although some people might go more aggressive and make multiple accounts to cross merit their posts and rank up. Other thing that is sure to happen is BCT members creating telegram groups to cross merit each other. This system is pretty much like Steemit, and will certainly be abused. Higher ranks means more money and so money grabbers will surely unite! I merit you, you merit me. That's what gonna happen.

That will be very difficult to do in a short time. After they have used up the initial airdrop of sMerit that they received then the only way to get more is to make posts worthy of receiving Merit. Those chosen to be merit sources are not going to be account farmers or getting involved anything like that.

[aroweyen]

I thought I have read clearly that only quality posts should be given merits, why am I seeing 1-2 liner post that have been merited. Doesn't mean you agree to their reply its already of quality? If that's the case this new system is getting really amusing. We'll see how this goes, good luck to us all.

[ReindeerOnMe]

I do like this new system of ranking up. It will certainly help in stopping spam, and maybe even alt accounts.

I also like the new system but I don't think that spammers will be stopped by this. They still have their own ranks and that can still be paid as long as they can join a campaign.

Higher ranks means more money and so money grabbers will surely unite! I merit you, you merit me. That's what gonna happen.

People will find a way to get through this easily

So overall, I think the intention behind merit system is very good, but it will now create a new class of Bitcointalk members, known as merit farmers! No system is perfect and I hope the benefits of this system outweigh its drawbacks.

It will get to this and I think there will be a solution for it if that happens.

[darklus123]

I wish there would have been some sort of option of giving dislike (-ve merit) to the spam/LQ posts and if any post receives certain -ve merits/dislikes,it should be automatically deleted /hidden

That is not a good idea in my opinion. Basically i agree on why did theymos didn't add the demerit function. We have a report to moderator option that we could use if we ever saw someone trying to post a garbage. Deleting someones post is basically the job of the mods. Allowing users to delete posts without due process will be so unethical tho. Will you allow someone to discredit your post without having a due process? Obviously not

[TMAN]

I thought I have read clearly that only quality posts should be given merits, why am I seeing 1-2 liner post that have been merited. Doesn't mean you agree to their reply its already of quality? If that's the case this new system is getting really amusing. We'll see how this goes, good luck to us all.

because it is new, the carrot is being dangled.. the right attitude towards this is a quality post in my eyes... it doesn't have to be 300 words long.

right now if all the lower ranked  guys got on board then they would see results, embrace change and see what happens

[asapjoshyy]

Just saw this Merit change and think its a good idea to prevent spam posts.
But I am a bit confused... did I get 500 Merit as a Hero Member although I have an activity above 700?
Someone who just got Hero Member would get the same I guess although I have at least 50% higher activity.
Why didnt they use some kind of percentage progression?

exactly what im saying...

[libert19]

I like this new ranking requirement.  It helps cleans up the forum.  I think many people will be stuck at Full Member rank permanently due to this change. 

Agreed. Accumulating merits is hard compared to activity points. They should reduce points to 150 or something for sr ranks.

[TheQuin]

I thought I have read clearly that only quality posts should be given merits, why am I seeing 1-2 liner post that have been merited.

Length != Quality

Sometimes the ability to convey a point concisely is far more important than an essay that fails to deliver any meaning. Merit is in the eye of the beholder, I'm sure the sources will each have a slightly different interpretation as to what that is. In my eyes making a positive contribution to the forum and Bitcoin community is equally important as technical knowledge.

[Andrej Peiboski]

Oh, yes, this is true, I completely missed this part.

So, not only it's already very difficult to receive any merit (for example, I like very much this post, but as I have only one sMerit to give, I'll keep it for a best occasion. Sorry), but it will be more and more difficult until it will be totally impossible.

Even if you wrote ten wonderful post every day, you won't receive anything, because there will be nothing to give.

I don't know what to say, but without a big correction this system won't work.

....
I've no idea how many fantastic post I should write to have the hope to  receive the 90 merit I need to become Full Member.
Probably after some post without any positive feedback, I'll simply give up, and I'll stop posting.
And for sure, newbies and Jr.Member will do the same.
...
Of course, may be I'm completely wrong (I'd like to be), and it will be very easy to receive merit and to rank up, in the meanwhile we can keep shitposters away.

Wow, I received two merits (I'm pretty surprised) from two unknown members, so it seems that it's possible to grow (now, I only need 88 to become full member...)

Btw, there is an aspect that - although mentioned somewhere by theymos - it seems that it wasn't discussed enough.

I mean, I received TWO sMerits: this produces TWO more Merits, but I can give only ONE sMerits. If I give this sMerit to someone, my sMerits go down by one, but I keep all my Merits.
Well, I already have a little headache, but I understand.
But... this means that the global quantity of sMerits decreases costantly, and IMHO, very fast.

Let's do some math: a Legendary has 1000 sMerits, for example. He is very generous and gives - to ten members he appreciates very much - 100 sMerits to each one. Now, they have grown up by 100 Merit, but they only have 50 sMerits to give away. In this passage, 500 sMerits simply disappeared and the global mass is 500 sMerits less!

If they do the same, at the next passage there will be only 250, then 125,... the quantity will tend to zero very fast.

If this happens on global scale very soon there won't be any sMerit to give; I understand that there is a kind of monthly mining, but it can replace all what is lost: I understand that the system started with 600.000 sMerits: well, if all sMerits are given, they become 300.000, then 150.000...
How could they be replaced by a 8.000 sMerits from mining?

If the sMerit was a coin, this could be an deflaction system to create scarsity, and the value os a sMerit will grow constantly: the last coin will have the value of the starting global valutary mass.
In our case, I can't figure what will happen so I'm very curios.

Sincerely, I've the feeling that the system will crash very fast (or, better, it will stall: nobody will receive any merit) , but - as I'm pretty sure the this aspect was analyzed from the creators of the system - may be there is something I don't grasp.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

[jondel]

Earn merit is harder than earn activity. I think the merit point should be reduced a little.
Maybe, merit point required for ranked-up is 50% from activity point is more fair.