Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[rocks]

This I can agree with but that's not exactly what your previous statement said

That said bitcoin's payment or remittance functions are what make the store of value function valuable.

Does the payment system make BTC potentially more valuable than other comparable store of value (gold)?

Sure, but gold itself is a great example of a SOV with a very limited payment function that is still relatively successful because of its sound money functions.

If you argue that the payment system is what will make BTC mainstream, beyond the sound money property, then yes I would tend to agree.

Yes that is what I was trying to say.

BTW although gold has a very limited payment function, that payment function was the best function available at the time it was used, and it did work pretty well. With gold and silver coins someone could simultaneously carry enough to live for a year and also have small enough denominations to pay for dinner. That is pretty functional and was good enough for a time, but not as functional as dollars, and definitely not as functional as Bitcoin.

[molecular]

Mastercard head of SE Asia goes all out with every myth, stereotype and piece of FUD he could possibly fit into 4.30 of attacking bitcoin.

This is scripted propaganda and it is excellent to watch. It really shows how worried they are that they have to make such an anti bitcoin informerci that can easily be taken apart. The part about what their core business is shows just how stupid they think their customers are

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bO4jHXjCXw8

This is sickening!

I see this as primarily a message to government officials: we'll help you collect taxes, apply capital controls and 'financial transparency' to your population so you can keep control. In turn you better start regulatorily strangling those goddamn cryptocurrencies!

A direct attack on human rights (imo) like financial privacy and freedom of economic interaction. Those things should be valued much higher than the governments ability to collect taxes or spy on their constituencies.

[cypherdoc]

Mastercard head of SE Asia goes all out with every myth, stereotype and piece of FUD he could possibly fit into 4.30 of attacking bitcoin.

This is scripted propaganda and it is excellent to watch. It really shows how worried they are that they have to make such an anti bitcoin informerci that can easily be taken apart. The part about what their core business is shows just how stupid they think their customers are

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bO4jHXjCXw8

This is sickening!

I see this as primarily a message to government officials: we'll help you collect taxes, apply capital controls and 'financial transparency' to your population so you can keep control. In turn you better start regulatorily strangling those goddamn cryptocurrencies!

A direct attack on human rights (imo) like financial privacy and freedom of economic interaction. Those things should be valued much higher than the governments ability to collect taxes or spy on their constituencies.

yep, totally ridiculous.  the good thing is he twisted himself all up in knots and hypocrisies which to any intelligent person was laughable.

[cypherdoc]

Rickards still not getting it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYlc5oftM0

the arguments against his 2 main concerns are that Bitcoin may not forever be considered "property" subject to capital gains.  see Stockman's bill.  also Jim, dump the FUD about Bitcoiner's being tax evaders.  i paid mine.

yes, Bitcoin hasn't been tested in a major economic wide downturn.  but it is holding in there in its own economic downturn over the last year since gox.  and we're still seeing worldwide growth, investment, and adoption.  these are all positives.  in fact, i think there's a good chance in the next economic downturn, we'll see a Cyprus-like RunToBitcoin as the only remaining form of Sound Money on the planet.  mark my words.

[molecular]

Mastercard head of SE Asia goes all out with every myth, stereotype and piece of FUD he could possibly fit into 4.30 of attacking bitcoin.

This is scripted propaganda and it is excellent to watch. It really shows how worried they are that they have to make such an anti bitcoin informerci that can easily be taken apart. The part about what their core business is shows just how stupid they think their customers are

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bO4jHXjCXw8

This is sickening!

I see this as primarily a message to government officials: we'll help you collect taxes, apply capital controls and 'financial transparency' to your population so you can keep control. In turn you better start regulatorily strangling those goddamn cryptocurrencies!

A direct attack on human rights (imo) like financial privacy and freedom of economic interaction. Those things should be valued much higher than the governments ability to collect taxes or spy on their constituencies.

yep, totally ridiculous.  the good thing is he twisted himself all up in knots and hypocrisies which to any intelligent person was laughable.

it's not just ridiculous, it's dangerous. The sad thing is: a lot of people around me are so fucking mind-controlled that they buy into this kind of rethoric and turn a blind eye to the consequences going down such a path could have. Next thing they call me a potential criminal with something to hide for wanting privacy. The sad thing is that I'm seeing tendencies in myself to self-censor because I'm growing sick of having those discussions with people.

The problem is that many people are not intelligent (at least not by your standard), but they (as anyone else) have fears and are prone to propaganda.

I feel we're coming to a crossroads. We go down one path and there's freedom and prosperity for most, we go down the other one and there's oppression and suffering for almost everyone (well, maybe not, maybe it'll be kind of enjoyable because we're going to be so damn brainwashed that we don't even realize what's being done to us and how our lives could be different)

[molecular]

Rickards still not getting it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYlc5oftM0

the arguments against his 2 main concerns are that Bitcoin may not forever be considered "property" subject to capital gains.  see Stockman's bill.  also Jim, dump the FUD about Bitcoiner's being tax evaders.  i paid mine.

yes, Bitcoin hasn't been tested in a major economic wide downturn.  but it is holding in there in its own economic downturn over the last year since gox.  and we're still seeing worldwide growth, investment, and adoption.  these are all positives.  in fact, i think there's a good chance in the next economic downturn, we'll see a Cyprus-like RunToBitcoin as the only remaining form of Sound Money on the planet.  mark my words.

I second both points (bolded).

It might also be 'the awakening' for some gold/silver bugs . But that has a lower probability.

[cypherdoc]

it's not just ridiculous, it's dangerous.

yeah.  it just goes to show you how far down the totalitarian rabbit hole these guys have gone.  really scary shit.

[Ivanhoe]

Our task to fight them, we are doing well.

[thezerg]

i wonder if the two Voorhees are related?

    "Whatever happens, the logic now is for the issues raised in the von NotHaus case to be pursued in the political arena. We are coming up on the 50th anniversary of the Coinage Act of 1965, which stripped silver from our common coinage. President Lyndon Johnson, who signed the bill into law, called it ‘the first fundamental change in our coinage in 173 years.’ He noted that during that nearly two-century span our coinage of dimes, quarters, half dollars, and dollars have contained 90 percent silver.’

    “‘The new dimes and the new quarters will contain no silver,’ the president confessed. ‘They will be composites, with faces of the same alloy used in our 5-cent piece that is bonded to a core of pure copper.’ That is how the debasement began, though LBJ did issue a warning. ‘If anybody has any idea of hoarding our silver coins, let me say this. Treasury has a lot of silver on hand, and it can be, and it will be used to keep the price of silver in line with its value in our present silver coin.’

    “It was a vain boast. At the time, the value of the dollar was more than two-thirds of an ounce of silver, as it was in 1792. By January 1980, the value of a dollar plunged to less than a 49th of an ounce of silver and even today has regained nowhere near its historic value. It is a shocking abdication by the United States Congress, a point that von NotHaus has thrown into sharper relief than any monetary gadfly has managed to do in years. That is no small achievement.”

http://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/nothaus-liberty-dollar-sentencing-013/

Then spake the judge, sentencing von NotHaus to but six months of home detention, to run concurrently with three years of probation.

AND he got all $7M of silver back. 

The judge has to slap his wrist because the coin unfortunately DOES look quite official.  But its hard to find criminal intent when the "counterfeit" coin's melt value was greater than its denominated face value (assuming you make the mistake of thinking the "dollars" on the coin refer to USD).  

The prosecution was asking for 14+ years and 16000 lbs of silver, which exemplifies one of the key problems with the US justice system.  The govt prosecutors are incapable of saying "ok we made our point.  We've brought clarity to exactly what counterfeiting is, but clearly this situation is nothing like printing $100 bills on spare paper."  Instead they go after this guy with everything they've got like he's public enemy #1.

[molecular]

Our task to fight them, we are doing well.

I propose not to fight (just makes them stronger), but to transcend them.

[cypherdoc]

no wonder they're scared.  i'd be too:

[brg444]

no wonder they're scared.  i'd be too:

Quite amazing that the price remains so stagnant.

This thing will blow up the moment we get any momentum

[cypherdoc]

definitely some charts to watch:

RUT failing to make a new high:



$DJT failing?:

[rocks]

I feel we're coming to a crossroads. We go down one path and there's freedom and prosperity for most, we go down the other one and there's oppression and suffering for almost everyone (well, maybe not, maybe it'll be kind of enjoyable because we're going to be so damn brainwashed that we don't even realize what's being done to us and how our lives could be different)

I feel the same way.

My worry though is what if the crossroads already happened for the US as a society 100 years ago, and we are merely witnessing the eventual fallout of a path already chosen? When the original progressive era (both progressive Democrats and progressive republicans) started to choose security over freedom and privacy on many levels.

Not to get too OT, but the US today bombs multiple counties regularly in order to maintain the petrodollar, and most do not care because it is out of sight and maintains everyone's standard of living. (seriously have you been tracking the target vs "collateral damage" numbers of these strikes?)  I don't believe a society that was truly interested in freedom would turn such a blind eye to the number of innocent people Obama has droned around the world.

[molecular]

ohoh

[cypherdoc]

i think we should all marvel at the beauty of the growing decentralization of mining over the last year.  look at that graph...Nash is alive!

[cypherdoc]

no wonder they're scared.  i'd be too:

Quite amazing that the price remains so stagnant.

This thing will blow up the moment we get any momentum

you just wait.

there's a massive green candle out there somewhere...

[cypherdoc]

ohoh

even i have to admit there was a point late last year or early this year when i was worried about the lack of tx growth.  that clearly is no longer a concern and i am as bullish as ever.

[Martijnvdc]

i think we should all marvel at the beauty of the growing decentralization of mining over the last year.  look at that graph...Nash is alive!

I recently read GHash.IO was reaching a dangerous size where it could possibly launch a 51% attack. Your chart shows it's rather small... I looked it up and found it was indeed a recent chart:
https://blockchain.info/pools
Either my article was old or there are tricks to pull off a 51% attack which i don't know about... Wouldn't discus fish be an even bigger threat then??

[cypherdoc]

i think we should all marvel at the beauty of the growing decentralization of mining over the last year.  look at that graph...Nash is alive!

I recently read GHash.IO was reaching a dangerous size where it could possibly launch a 51% attack. Your chart shows it's rather small... I looked it up and found it was indeed a recent chart:
https://blockchain.info/pools
Either my article was old or there are tricks to pull off a 51% attack which i don't know about... Wouldn't discus fish be an even bigger threat then??

earlier this year ghash did get over 50% and some "rogue" employee pulled off a small double spend but was immediately caught and fired.  at least, that's the story.

but immediately the community responded by individual miners dispersing to other pools and even ghash voluntarily began restricting new miners to actively bring down their %.

Discus will unlikely be a problem as hardware costs are decreasing allowing more wide distribution and the mining sector, in general, is likely to contract for a short while until the price starts going back up.