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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009353 times)
NotLambchop
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March 08, 2015, 02:35:13 PM
 #21741

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

FUD?  Simply replying to a redneck fireman from the sticks fellow Bitcoin intellectual & international financier, Billy Jo.  Mentioned mental giant posits that "SHA256 [being] hacked" would devastate our real financial institutions, while BTCeanie enthusiasts would simply hardfork their scheme to save the day.
If you wish, I could bring up yet another catch:  can't hardfork in real time.  The most recent patch (can't remember, something about 7TPS limit or 21 mil. max coin limit) has been in the works for forever, the one addressing SHA256 haxoring might take a bit longer  Undecided
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Pruden
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March 08, 2015, 06:32:15 PM
 #21742

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!
As a Spaniard, I approve of this video. It's especially funny to someone who knows Risitas, who more than a comedian is a teller of personal anecdotes as miserable as they are funny.

P.S: Now I notice Risitas has become a meme, damn, I thought this video was one of a kind. No such thing on the net, I guess.
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March 08, 2015, 06:46:06 PM
 #21743

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!
As a Spaniard, I approve of this video. It's especially funny to someone who knows Risitas, who more than a comedian is a teller of personal anecdotes as miserable as they are funny.

P.S: Now I notice Risitas has become a meme, damn, I thought this video was one of a kind. No such thing on the net, I guess.

Given the misery of the Spanish economy since 2008, i can imagine he's had plenty of material.
Hfleer
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March 08, 2015, 07:32:47 PM
 #21744

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

lol

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!

It really is. Spot on description. Cripti and Sys must be celebrationg that video Cheesy

█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
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March 08, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
 #21745

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

FUD?  Simply replying to a redneck fireman from the sticks fellow Bitcoin intellectual & international financier, Billy Jo.  Mentioned mental giant posits that "SHA256 [being] hacked" would devastate our real financial institutions, while BTCeanie enthusiasts would simply hardfork their scheme to save the day.
If you wish, I could bring up yet another catch:  can't hardfork in real time.  The most recent patch (can't remember, something about 7TPS limit or 21 mil. max coin limit) has been in the works for forever, the one addressing SHA256 haxoring might take a bit longer  Undecided

Real problems tend to be resolved with remarkable speed.  The BDB mis-config was a classic example and was actually quite impressive.  How fast a similar thing would happen today is not clear, but it remains the case that genuine problems are rapidly addressable.

In the case of the transaction rate, things are much slower because a decent percent of the players (including myself) consider some of the leading proposals to address the 'problem' to be an attack on the system and one which will sink it.  And we don't want to see that happen.  WRT the 21 mil, even stating that as a problem demonstrates some combination of ignorance and deceit (and worse still, a lack of a developed sense of humor.)  There is a real problem here, but if you don't mention undependable outputs it shows a lack of understanding and rigor.

Hopefully we can get to a point where core Bitcoin can simply freeze in a know working state and provide support to a multitude of sidechains.  This will protect Bitcoin core against unintended development failures and preserve it in a form where hard-fork resolutions to severe problems are resolvable with similar effectiveness of the BDB issue.  One of the many advantages of this would be that many sidechain economies could move on relatively unimpeded while any potential core Bitcoin issues were resolved.  That is a key advantage of the right balance of abstraction in system design.


bracek
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March 08, 2015, 10:14:19 PM
 #21746

another one Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCR3722ACTI
Wandererfromthenorth
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March 08, 2015, 11:41:24 PM
 #21747

http://sidazhang.com/3-reasons-why-bitcoin-wont-be-the-new-internet/

Some valid points in there.
Hfleer
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March 09, 2015, 12:05:45 AM
 #21748

There seems to be consensus among some people that Gavin's scaling proposition would make the bitcoin network a lot less secure.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/574582759508873216


Same with Mircea Popescu (who declared war to Gavin if his solution happens) and some other folks.

Well Mirceas war declaration isn't a big reason as he is offended fast. But Peter Todd has a good point. Security is the most important point and everything needs to be discussed before taking any step at all.

█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
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March 09, 2015, 12:23:37 AM
 #21749

There seems to be consensus among some people that Gavin's scaling proposition would make the bitcoin network a lot less secure.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/574582759508873216


Same with Mircea Popescu (who declared war to Gavin if his solution happens) and some other folks.

So the author doesn't think Bitcoin can solve the mining / tx fee issue without the price jumping, tx's increasing or hashing power rocketing. Fair enough, it's an ongoing debate in a live, global, experiment.

I dont know why critiques are always being so binary; it cant take over all retail, cant do this right now, will never adapt to that.... I don't think it ever was intended to take out all retail. I think it will exist as an option for those so inclined, much because that is what it is in all areas - an alternative. Birthed from the ashes of a financial meltdown and the biggest economic experiment in history (QE), it's whether people see the merit in it or not (and their ability to see it or not is a whole other discussion).
sgbett
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March 09, 2015, 12:30:09 AM
 #21750

The discussion will surely happen, but in the meantime everyone else will focus on the poop being flung by all the monkeys that aren't a part of that committee (I include myself!) heh

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Hfleer
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March 09, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
 #21751

The discussion will surely happen, but in the meantime everyone else will focus on the poop being flung by all the monkeys that aren't a part of that committee (I include myself!) heh

I think that controversy is good to raise awareness. Even if this might hurt the "imgae" of the developer team and BTC in general, the overall effect in the end will be very positive.

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▓▓▓▓▓  BIT-X.comvvvvvvvvvvvvvvi
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March 09, 2015, 12:56:36 AM
 #21752

There seems to be consensus among some people that Gavin's scaling proposition would make the bitcoin network a lot less secure.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/574582759508873216


Same with Mircea Popescu (who declared war to Gavin if his solution happens) and some other folks.

So the author doesn't think Bitcoin can solve the mining / tx fee issue without the price jumping, tx's increasing or hashing power rocketing. Fair enough, it's an ongoing debate in a live, global, experiment.

I dont know why critiques are always being so binary; it cant take over all retail, cant do this right now, will never adapt to that.... I don't think it ever was intended to take out all retail. I think it will exist as an option for those so inclined, much because that is what it is in all areas - an alternative. Birthed from the ashes of a financial meltdown and the biggest economic experiment in history (QE), it's whether people see the merit in it or not (and their ability to see it or not is a whole other discussion).

It is also a point that now it can take a share of retail, a share of microtransactions, while these functions might have to be delegated to service companies in the future. It does not matter, it is important that these functions can expand bitcoin in the moment. The expansion can not be balanced, it will go into the areas where bitcoin can make a difference in the moment, then later, it will go into other areas.

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March 09, 2015, 03:33:31 AM
 #21753

movin' up
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March 09, 2015, 03:42:35 AM
 #21754

down, down, down:

megadeth
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March 09, 2015, 03:43:29 AM
 #21755

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.
Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.

Big rises have yet to backfill. In order for the $1000+ high to fill, it would have to drop below $300, possibly as low as ~$160 before the trend reverses.

Of course growth rates may be enough to keep that from happening. If the ~$400-430 range holds through the supposed China deadline and the big investments start drawing in new usage, we could easily be headed back to the moon.

In short, April is going to be a pivotal month for Bitcoin (and gold, silver, bonds, nearly everything else). I think if a collapse doesn't happen here, we'll know whether Bitcoin will truly thrive by late 3rd to 4th quarter this year.

Nice call by miscreanity on your thread cypher.

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cypherdoc
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March 09, 2015, 03:51:49 AM
 #21756

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.
Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.

Big rises have yet to backfill. In order for the $1000+ high to fill, it would have to drop below $300, possibly as low as ~$160 before the trend reverses.

Of course growth rates may be enough to keep that from happening. If the ~$400-430 range holds through the supposed China deadline and the big investments start drawing in new usage, we could easily be headed back to the moon.

In short, April is going to be a pivotal month for Bitcoin (and gold, silver, bonds, nearly everything else). I think if a collapse doesn't happen here, we'll know whether Bitcoin will truly thrive by late 3rd to 4th quarter this year.

Nice call by miscreanity on your thread cypher.

i do miss him.
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March 09, 2015, 05:28:26 AM
 #21757

Both heading DOWNTOWN. 400's baby, bring it. 300's next.
Don't get too excited. $400 is in the cards, yes. But 300...? I don't think.

Big rises have yet to backfill. In order for the $1000+ high to fill, it would have to drop below $300, possibly as low as ~$160 before the trend reverses.

Of course growth rates may be enough to keep that from happening. If the ~$400-430 range holds through the supposed China deadline and the big investments start drawing in new usage, we could easily be headed back to the moon.

In short, April is going to be a pivotal month for Bitcoin (and gold, silver, bonds, nearly everything else). I think if a collapse doesn't happen here, we'll know whether Bitcoin will truly thrive by late 3rd to 4th quarter this year.

Nice call by miscreanity on your thread cypher.

i do miss him.


Those early debates between you two in the original thread were great.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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March 09, 2015, 06:17:48 AM
 #21758

There seems to be consensus among some people that Gavin's scaling proposition would make the bitcoin network a lot less secure.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/574582759508873216


Same with Mircea Popescu (who declared war to Gavin if his solution happens) and some other folks.

So the author doesn't think Bitcoin can solve the mining / tx fee issue without the price jumping, tx's increasing or hashing power rocketing. Fair enough, it's an ongoing debate in a live, global, experiment.

I dont know why critiques are always being so binary; it cant take over all retail, cant do this right now, will never adapt to that.... I don't think it ever was intended to take out all retail. I think it will exist as an option for those so inclined, much because that is what it is in all areas - an alternative. Birthed from the ashes of a financial meltdown and the biggest economic experiment in history (QE), it's whether people see the merit in it or not (and their ability to see it or not is a whole other discussion).

It is also a point that now it can take a share of retail, a share of microtransactions, while these functions might have to be delegated to service companies in the future. It does not matter, it is important that these functions can expand bitcoin in the moment. The expansion can not be balanced, it will go into the areas where bitcoin can make a difference in the moment, then later, it will go into other areas.


Sidechains  and payment channels can take a lot of the heavy lifting off the bitcoin network and let it do what it is good at, monetary settlement using distributed consensus with a timestamp server.

There is no need to rush out a half-baked scaling solution experiment that risks decentralisation, i.e. the distributed census security at bitcoin's core. Raising max_block_size to 2, 4 or 8 MByte should be ample, and not risk security, until the off-chain solutions are in the wild.

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March 09, 2015, 06:56:34 AM
 #21759


Big rises have yet to backfill. In order for the $1000+ high to fill, it would have to drop below $300, possibly as low as ~$160 before the trend reverses.

Of course growth rates may be enough to keep that from happening. If the ~$400-430 range holds through the supposed China deadline and the big investments start drawing in new usage, we could easily be headed back to the moon.

In short, April is going to be a pivotal month for Bitcoin (and gold, silver, bonds, nearly everything else). I think if a collapse doesn't happen here, we'll know whether Bitcoin will truly thrive by late 3rd to 4th quarter this year.

Nice call by miscreanity on your thread cypher.

i do miss him.

You've still got me.  The guy who mentioned probably somewhere Q3 that it looked like there would be no selling opportunity in 2014 but hopefully 2015 will bring one.  It was in association with one of your numerous 2-da-moon exclamations which follows each blip up in price IIRC.  Hopefully that moderated some people's aspirations and helped them do better mid-term planning.


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March 09, 2015, 11:37:35 AM
 #21760


You've still got me.  


Yes, afterthoughts often linger.

Yep, the guy who screams at every blip in gold and whose emotions/FUD swing with every Bitcoin dip.

Sad really how desperate for recognition one can be.
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