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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2011333 times)
lunarboy
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March 01, 2015, 01:45:37 PM
 #21641

http://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper-DRAFT-0.5.pdf

off-chain transaction routing protocol claim.

Conclusions
Quote
If all Bitcoin transactions were conducted inside a network of micropayment channels, to
enable 7 billion people to make two channels per year with unlimited transactions inside the
channel, it would require 133 MB blocks (presuming 500 bytes per transaction and 52560
blocks per year). Current generation desktop computers will be able to run a full node with
old blocks pruned out on 2TB of storage

That's quite a claim.

Thanks for sharing.
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cypherdoc
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March 01, 2015, 04:47:56 PM
 #21642

decent article on what is happening worldwide, altho nothing new from i have said here for a while now:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113576/why-the-european-central-bank-is-paving-the-way-for-cryptocurrencies-op-ed
cypherdoc
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March 01, 2015, 09:40:19 PM
 #21643

Continued mining decentralization:

Zarathustra
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March 02, 2015, 07:18:21 AM
 #21644

A problem greece cant fix it based on production.

They have no export/import things from their own country. Meanwhile china, we all love almost everything we have here in the U.S is "Made in China" so it creates millionaires for them.

Greece is nothing but a tourist attraction, unless they understand their own mechanics to the problem.

Well, if they don't export anything, then Bitcoin theoretically would be precisely the type of currency the Greek people should want to adopt. It goes up in value over the long run as well their purchasing power. Just sit back and consume.
Bitcoin still doesn't save them.

They could buy up the bitcoins with whatever euros they have on hand, but then they'll still need to spend their bitcoins.

If they are trying to spend more than they earn - no matter what currency is involved - eventually they'll run out of money.

I think you're missing the bigger picture.

The first country that introduces an honest currency should prosper. People who may have never found it worthwhile to work or strive in the past will for the first time have an incentive to participate in a real economy not distorted by corrupt monetary policy.
Individuals will prosper, but countries will not.

It's not possible for a nation-state to survive in the presence of honest money.

Yes! But in a stateless environment the people are prospering because they are not forced of doing business.
You аrе forced to do business for the purpose of generating surplus, which is demanded by the state mafia (tribute/tax). In an environment beyond the state - in the rainforest - the communities are producing the same amount as 10'000 years ago. Zero increase. Zero surplus. Zero business.
sickpig
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March 02, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
 #21645

Continued mining decentralization:



Sure you're right.

Nonetheless, from the same blog post,  a more worrisome observation:

Chinese pools control more than half the network

To be exact, pools identifying as Chinese contributed 52.8% of the networks blocks, with a 95% confidence interval of 
approximately +/- 8.5%. The top four pools are all Chinese. This shouldn't be surprising, since most (all?) bitcoin mining
chips are fabricated there and much of the development appears to be Chinese as well.

My concern with this development is the same as if that much of the network was concentrated in any nation - what happens
to the network if the government decides to take an interest?
Some pools have some of their equipment outside China, but
even so that still leave a large proportion of the network that could be controlled by one government.

I'm sure the Chinese pools are aware of this and have strategies in place to mitigate this risk, and I'd encourage them to
start moving at least some infrastructure to other countries.

emphasis' mine.



Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
smooth
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March 02, 2015, 11:05:48 AM
 #21646

Continued mining decentralization:



Sure you're right.

Nonetheless, from the same blog post,  a more worrisome observation:

Chinese pools control more than half the network

To be exact, pools identifying as Chinese contributed 52.8% of the networks blocks, with a 95% confidence interval of  
approximately +/- 8.5%. The top four pools are all Chinese. This shouldn't be surprising, since most (all?) bitcoin mining
chips are fabricated there and much of the development appears to be Chinese as well.

My concern with this development is the same as if that much of the network was concentrated in any nation - what happens
to the network if the government decides to take an interest?
Some pools have some of their equipment outside China, but
even so that still leave a large proportion of the network that could be controlled by one government.

I'm sure the Chinese pools are aware of this and have strategies in place to mitigate this risk, and I'd encourage them to
start moving at least some infrastructure to other countries.

emphasis' mine.

I'd also note that at the 50% level, that graph hasn't changed so much over the years. It has fluctuated between 2-3 pools almost if not entirely (very recently its >3 but who knows how long that lasts). At the 75% level there is more change, but that's not entirely encouraging on its face. 75% is too high a threshold for decentralization.

Erdogan
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March 02, 2015, 01:34:34 PM
 #21647

Look what is at the top of the Trouble Currencies Watch list: (Sadly, it is a bit old)

http://www.cato.org/research/troubled-currencies-project-watch-list

Fun times!


cypherdoc
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March 02, 2015, 02:37:00 PM
 #21648

This is the concept  I have been trying to push for a long time especially as it relates to UST's. I think it's accurate and this guy agrees:

In other words, we’ve reached the limit of what can be accomplished and with NIRP creating new market perversions on an almost daily basis, the unintended consequences of continuing to delve deeper into the new paranormal are making the game ever more dangerous as we now ow have central banks accidentally creating deflation while simultaneously embedding enormous amounts of risk in fixed income markets by sapping every last vestige of liquidity.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-01/are-central-banks-creating-deflation
hdbuck
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March 02, 2015, 02:56:17 PM
 #21649

More Moore!

SanDisk unveils 200 GB Micro SD to meet storage requirements of Smartphones at MWC2015:
http://www.techworm.net/2015/03/sandisk-unveils-200-gb-micro-sd-to-meet-storage-requirements-of-smartphones-at-mwc2015.html

Erdogan
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March 02, 2015, 04:47:19 PM
 #21650

This is the concept  I have been trying to push for a long time especially as it relates to UST's. I think it's accurate and this guy agrees:

In other words, we’ve reached the limit of what can be accomplished and with NIRP creating new market perversions on an almost daily basis, the unintended consequences of continuing to delve deeper into the new paranormal are making the game ever more dangerous as we now ow have central banks accidentally creating deflation while simultaneously embedding enormous amounts of risk in fixed income markets by sapping every last vestige of liquidity.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-01/are-central-banks-creating-deflation

It is in there, but it could be said simpler: Fucking with the interest rate produces distortions in the investment signals, therefore a misadapted capital structure, which means lower prosperity.

Erdogan
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March 02, 2015, 04:54:19 PM
 #21651

Here is a thought for those who think the bitcoin blockchain should be used for all kinds of notary stuff.

To guarantee the timestamp and the integrity of documents, only a single miner would be needed, which in that case would not need to expend energy, just create the blocks in a timely manner. Why is this enough? Because the whole chain is known at all times, and to cheat, the  miner has to unwind the  chain down to the document he wants to tamper with, and recreate the rest of the chain. This will then be obvious to all.

 

cypherdoc
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March 02, 2015, 05:00:46 PM
 #21652

More Moore!

SanDisk unveils 200 GB Micro SD to meet storage requirements of Smartphones at MWC2015:
http://www.techworm.net/2015/03/sandisk-unveils-200-gb-micro-sd-to-meet-storage-requirements-of-smartphones-at-mwc2015.html



extraordinary. meanwhile:

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.
cypherdoc
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March 02, 2015, 05:02:51 PM
 #21653

This is the concept  I have been trying to push for a long time especially as it relates to UST's. I think it's accurate and this guy agrees:

In other words, we’ve reached the limit of what can be accomplished and with NIRP creating new market perversions on an almost daily basis, the unintended consequences of continuing to delve deeper into the new paranormal are making the game ever more dangerous as we now ow have central banks accidentally creating deflation while simultaneously embedding enormous amounts of risk in fixed income markets by sapping every last vestige of liquidity.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-01/are-central-banks-creating-deflation

It is in there, but it could be said simpler: Fucking with the interest rate produces distortions in the investment signals, therefore a misadapted capital structure, which means lower prosperity.


you're right.  i left out the word "f*cking".
cypherdoc
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March 02, 2015, 05:20:16 PM
 #21654

Here is a thought for those who think the bitcoin blockchain should be used for all kinds of notary stuff.

To guarantee the timestamp and the integrity of documents, only a single miner would be needed, which in that case would not need to expend energy, just create the blocks in a timely manner. Why is this enough? Because the whole chain is known at all times, and to cheat, the  miner has to unwind the  chain down to the document he wants to tamper with, and recreate the rest of the chain. This will then be obvious to all.

 

not sure what you're trying to get at but that would be totally unworkable.  that sole miner would have 100% of the consensus which would allow unfettered rewriting of the entire BC if he so wished.  the community has to prevent any such tampering and the only way to do that is to distribute the ledger across space and across many different miners to enforce against that type of cheating. 
ElectricMucus
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March 02, 2015, 05:31:25 PM
 #21655

More Moore!

SanDisk unveils 200 GB Micro SD to meet storage requirements of Smartphones at MWC2015:
http://www.techworm.net/2015/03/sandisk-unveils-200-gb-micro-sd-to-meet-storage-requirements-of-smartphones-at-mwc2015.html



That's not cost scaling, what Moores Law is about. (The costs per transistor go down as time progresses)
If anything it hints in the same direction we are already seeing, higher density is becoming more expensive than low density. (Based on price / transistor count)

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
lebing
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Enabling the maximal migration


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March 02, 2015, 05:45:06 PM
 #21656

Here is a thought for those who think the bitcoin blockchain should be used for all kinds of notary stuff.

To guarantee the timestamp and the integrity of documents, only a single miner would be needed, which in that case would not need to expend energy, just create the blocks in a timely manner. Why is this enough? Because the whole chain is known at all times, and to cheat, the  miner has to unwind the  chain down to the document he wants to tamper with, and recreate the rest of the chain. This will then be obvious to all.

 

not sure what you're trying to get at but that would be totally unworkable.  that sole miner would have 100% of the consensus which would allow unfettered rewriting of the entire BC if he so wished.  the community has to prevent any such tampering and the only way to do that is to distribute the ledger across space and across many different miners to enforce against that type of cheating. 

indeed. not to mention being incredibly vulnerable to DDOS/ hacking, etc.

Bro, do you even blockchain?
-E Voorhees
cypherdoc
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March 02, 2015, 05:53:03 PM
 #21657

hdbuck
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March 02, 2015, 05:56:42 PM
 #21658

More Moore!

SanDisk unveils 200 GB Micro SD to meet storage requirements of Smartphones at MWC2015:
http://www.techworm.net/2015/03/sandisk-unveils-200-gb-micro-sd-to-meet-storage-requirements-of-smartphones-at-mwc2015.html



That's not cost scaling, what Moores Law is about. (The costs per transistor go down as time progresses)
If anything it hints in the same direction we are already seeing, higher density is becoming more expensive than low density. (Based on price / transistor count)

well, no, it is exactly what moore's law is about: this same 200Gb micro SD woulda cost about 2 times more 2 years earlier..
plus you can also blame it on the inflation for today's price.
ElectricMucus
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March 02, 2015, 06:01:33 PM
 #21659

More Moore!

SanDisk unveils 200 GB Micro SD to meet storage requirements of Smartphones at MWC2015:
http://www.techworm.net/2015/03/sandisk-unveils-200-gb-micro-sd-to-meet-storage-requirements-of-smartphones-at-mwc2015.html



That's not cost scaling, what Moores Law is about. (The costs per transistor go down as time progresses)
If anything it hints in the same direction we are already seeing, higher density is becoming more expensive than low density. (Based on price / transistor count)

well, no, it is exactly what moore's law is about: this same 200Gb micro SD woulda cost about 2 times more 2 years earlier..
plus you can also blame it on the inflation for today's price.

I could get 4pcs 64GB microSD cards below $100 each two years ago. For the third and last time moores law is about cost per transistor (Which is analogous to cost per flash cell).

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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March 02, 2015, 06:02:51 PM
 #21660

silver leading to the downside; again.  i'd like to see this cycle break to new lows:

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