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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806129 times)
NotLambchop
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March 08, 2015, 12:28:04 AM
 #21761

...Besides, we can migrate the blockchain over to SHA512 with a hard fork a heluva lot easier that the bank's 40 YO computer networks can upgrade. ...

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.  

With "legacy" banking?  Lol, not much happens.  A few delayed/reversed transactions, a bit more boring old paper money, a few hax0ring scumbags lined up against a wall & shot for their faggotry Undecided

BTW, what happened in Y2K?   Did I miss something?  I mean, other than all those ICBMs accidentally Atlantis into smoking molten glass?
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March 08, 2015, 01:08:11 AM
 #21762

Antonopoulos is out of his mind suggesting the current hashing power of the network is enough to secure a $1T Bitcoin market cap

I didn't watch but I agree with him in principle.  You can't steal coins with 51% only block service.  So the only entity who would waste the kind of $ to 51pct is governments.  But governments would simply legislate the problem away not waste 100 millions to build up hash.
justusranvier
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March 08, 2015, 01:57:21 AM
 #21763

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.
kodtycoon
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March 08, 2015, 02:05:32 AM
 #21764

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

lol

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
cypherdoc
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March 08, 2015, 02:24:27 AM
 #21765

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

lol

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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March 08, 2015, 05:48:07 AM
 #21766

Gold will exist in 20 years, BTC not sure

But what will the value of gold be in 20 years?

The immutable value of shiny gold in 20 years will be the same as 1000 or 2000 years ago.

It will get you food, clothing, shelter, and intimate companionship.

Gold is proof of work, being born in a quasar or other extreme cosmic event.

SHA256 and ECC will be broken and forgotten long before we can duplicate the power of a supernova.

If you really think SHA256 will be broken, then you should be buying lead (bullets) and not gold. The entire financial network of the world is built on that encryption, ATMs, SWIFT, ACH, everything.  If SHA256 gets hacked, it's the Mad max scenario and we will all have much bigger problems than bitcoin. Besides, we can migrate the blockchain over to SHA512 with a hard fork a heluva lot easier that the bank's 40 YO computer networks can upgrade. Perhaps you remember what a clusterfuck it was to fix the Y2K bug in 1999.

I didn't say SHA will be broken anytime soon.  I only said that SHA will be broken and forgotten long before we have can harness the power of supernovas to create gold.

I expect SHA to be broken within 100 years.  Bulk transmutation of heavy elements will take at least another 100 because we'll need zero-point energy for power.

Regardless, you should be buying lead AND gold, not one or the other.  They are complimentary goods!   Cool

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
tabnloz
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March 08, 2015, 06:15:37 AM
 #21767

Antonopoulos is out of his mind suggesting the current hashing power of the network is enough to secure a $1T Bitcoin market cap

Is there a link to this somewhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIgjogLipvk


@brg444, I took AA's point to be that btc has been under attack since its inception from a range of global players and it is yet to be broken; hence the currency may be $10000 or $100, the encryption is still yet to be cracked? Care to ELI5 differently?
kodtycoon
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March 08, 2015, 01:51:05 PM
 #21768

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

lol

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
cypherdoc
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March 08, 2015, 02:17:24 PM
 #21769

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

lol

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!
NotLambchop
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March 08, 2015, 02:35:13 PM
 #21770

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

FUD?  Simply replying to a redneck fireman from the sticks fellow Bitcoin intellectual & international financier, Billy Jo.  Mentioned mental giant posits that "SHA256 [being] hacked" would devastate our real financial institutions, while BTCeanie enthusiasts would simply hardfork their scheme to save the day.
If you wish, I could bring up yet another catch:  can't hardfork in real time.  The most recent patch (can't remember, something about 7TPS limit or 21 mil. max coin limit) has been in the works for forever, the one addressing SHA256 haxoring might take a bit longer  Undecided
Pruden
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March 08, 2015, 06:32:15 PM
 #21771

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!
As a Spaniard, I approve of this video. It's especially funny to someone who knows Risitas, who more than a comedian is a teller of personal anecdotes as miserable as they are funny.

P.S: Now I notice Risitas has become a meme, damn, I thought this video was one of a kind. No such thing on the net, I guess.

cypherdoc
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March 08, 2015, 06:46:06 PM
 #21772

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!
As a Spaniard, I approve of this video. It's especially funny to someone who knows Risitas, who more than a comedian is a teller of personal anecdotes as miserable as they are funny.

P.S: Now I notice Risitas has become a meme, damn, I thought this video was one of a kind. No such thing on the net, I guess.

Given the misery of the Spanish economy since 2008, i can imagine he's had plenty of material.
Hfleer
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March 08, 2015, 07:32:47 PM
 #21773

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

lol

Dude! Been waiting for you to show up! Did you actually produce this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIasr2AiyZ0
lol no.. Cheesy saw when it had like 2 views and I just thought shit more people need to see this lol yeah I am highly involved in an alt but that video is gold regardless!! Lol

Lol, that video is on par with Hitler, maybe even better. Whoever made that has great timing and nuance. Couldn't stop laughing  myself!

It really is. Spot on description. Cripti and Sys must be celebrationg that video Cheesy

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March 08, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
 #21774

Caveat:  SHA256 broken==blockchain corrupted--your BTC transferred ta hax0r's wallet--irreversible.  You can hardfork the ashes all you want, your money's gone.  Poof!  Fini.
You need to work in your FUD.

Your scenario is less incorrect for ECDSA than it's incorrect for SHA256.

FUD?  Simply replying to a redneck fireman from the sticks fellow Bitcoin intellectual & international financier, Billy Jo.  Mentioned mental giant posits that "SHA256 [being] hacked" would devastate our real financial institutions, while BTCeanie enthusiasts would simply hardfork their scheme to save the day.
If you wish, I could bring up yet another catch:  can't hardfork in real time.  The most recent patch (can't remember, something about 7TPS limit or 21 mil. max coin limit) has been in the works for forever, the one addressing SHA256 haxoring might take a bit longer  Undecided

Real problems tend to be resolved with remarkable speed.  The BDB mis-config was a classic example and was actually quite impressive.  How fast a similar thing would happen today is not clear, but it remains the case that genuine problems are rapidly addressable.

In the case of the transaction rate, things are much slower because a decent percent of the players (including myself) consider some of the leading proposals to address the 'problem' to be an attack on the system and one which will sink it.  And we don't want to see that happen.  WRT the 21 mil, even stating that as a problem demonstrates some combination of ignorance and deceit (and worse still, a lack of a developed sense of humor.)  There is a real problem here, but if you don't mention undependable outputs it shows a lack of understanding and rigor.

Hopefully we can get to a point where core Bitcoin can simply freeze in a know working state and provide support to a multitude of sidechains.  This will protect Bitcoin core against unintended development failures and preserve it in a form where hard-fork resolutions to severe problems are resolvable with similar effectiveness of the BDB issue.  One of the many advantages of this would be that many sidechain economies could move on relatively unimpeded while any potential core Bitcoin issues were resolved.  That is a key advantage of the right balance of abstraction in system design.


bracek
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March 08, 2015, 10:14:19 PM
 #21775

another one Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCR3722ACTI
Wandererfromthenorth
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March 08, 2015, 11:41:24 PM
 #21776

http://sidazhang.com/3-reasons-why-bitcoin-wont-be-the-new-internet/

Some valid points in there.
Hfleer
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March 09, 2015, 12:05:45 AM
 #21777

There seems to be consensus among some people that Gavin's scaling proposition would make the bitcoin network a lot less secure.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/574582759508873216


Same with Mircea Popescu (who declared war to Gavin if his solution happens) and some other folks.

Well Mirceas war declaration isn't a big reason as he is offended fast. But Peter Todd has a good point. Security is the most important point and everything needs to be discussed before taking any step at all.

█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
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tabnloz
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March 09, 2015, 12:23:37 AM
 #21778

There seems to be consensus among some people that Gavin's scaling proposition would make the bitcoin network a lot less secure.

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/574582759508873216


Same with Mircea Popescu (who declared war to Gavin if his solution happens) and some other folks.

So the author doesn't think Bitcoin can solve the mining / tx fee issue without the price jumping, tx's increasing or hashing power rocketing. Fair enough, it's an ongoing debate in a live, global, experiment.

I dont know why critiques are always being so binary; it cant take over all retail, cant do this right now, will never adapt to that.... I don't think it ever was intended to take out all retail. I think it will exist as an option for those so inclined, much because that is what it is in all areas - an alternative. Birthed from the ashes of a financial meltdown and the biggest economic experiment in history (QE), it's whether people see the merit in it or not (and their ability to see it or not is a whole other discussion).
sgbett
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March 09, 2015, 12:30:09 AM
 #21779

The discussion will surely happen, but in the meantime everyone else will focus on the poop being flung by all the monkeys that aren't a part of that committee (I include myself!) heh

http://haschinabannedbitcoin.com
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Hfleer
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March 09, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
 #21780

The discussion will surely happen, but in the meantime everyone else will focus on the poop being flung by all the monkeys that aren't a part of that committee (I include myself!) heh

I think that controversy is good to raise awareness. Even if this might hurt the "imgae" of the developer team and BTC in general, the overall effect in the end will be very positive.

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