Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

this is good from flix1 just now on bitcoin-dev:

@gavinandresen Actually over the past weeks I've given this a lot of thought and I've come around to see your solution as the best. A purely mathematical rule keeps it simple. Targeting Moore's law is reasonable.

It will also be easier to reach a very broad consensus for something straightforward.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[cypherdoc]

this is some pretty crazy stuff from Pieter:

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Me via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

>Have you talk to them? If not, how can you be sure they don’t run large number of standard nodes and actually make the network >stronger? Personally I never bring claims like this if I just assume. A lot of people in the community really trust you, do you realize you >potentially hurt them for no reason?


Running normal full nodes only provides extra service to nodes synchronizing and lightweight clients. It does not "make the network stronger" in the sense that it does not reduce the trust the participants need to have in each other.

It's such a misconception that running many nodes somehow helps. It's much better that you run and control one or a few full nodes which you actually use to validate your transactions, than to run 1000s of nodes in third party datacenters. The latter only looks more decentralized.

--
Pieter


i maybe understand his argument that datacenters are vulnerable to state attack but when thousands of datacenters running full nodes are themselves distributed across the planet in jurisdictions that disagree with say the US, i can't see how those don't help decentralization.

[tvbcof]

what we're witnessing is Blockstream core dev forcing Bitcoin into their vision of what it should be.  not Satoshi's vision.  

nor the vast majority of the community's vision.

Unsurprisingly, a vast majority of the 'community's vision' is free shit.

Far from destroying that vision, what the Blockstream dudes are doing is making it not only practical but likely.  This because an infinite number of entities will develop and subsidize their own pegged sidechains.  They'll do this in order to tap other value streams inherent in the use of customized currency solution.

Blockstream is developing ways of doing it which protects end-users via sophisticated pegging (if they choose to protect themselves) and protecting core Bitcoin at the same time.  As a bonus, a wide variety of tunings at the sidechain level are possible providing the end-user a much better experience.  One 'better experience' would be robust '0-conf' function in cases where that is important (and there are many cases where it is not.)

Blockstream seems to have attracted an impressive number of the most dedicated, active, and skilled developers in the crypto-currency space and I'm sure that this is because these people recognize not only the value but the necessity of moving distributed crypto-currencies in this direction in order to have the best hope of meeting the challenges on the horizon.

[cypherdoc]

so sorry iCEBlow. we all know you're an avid goldbug too.  it sucks losing on all fronts i'm sure:

[cypherdoc]

actually, we also know that tvbcof loves gold as well.  too bad:









how many thousands of times do i have to tell you guys this?

[cypherdoc]

years ago in the original gold thread, i talked about gold's illiquidity.  i talked about having to haul my gold and silver over to the coin dealer to sell.  almost broke my back.  had to take a 5% hit to the price and immediately fill out forms to ensure i paid taxes, which i gladly did at those elevated prices (lots of you won't though i'm sure).

the problems i foresee involve those when there will be lines of ppl trying to sell.  the illiquidity is going to be stunning given how impractical gold and silver really is in regards to actually functioning as money compared to Bitcoin.  we are in the midst of a huge transition or wealth transfer.  will you be able to cross the rubicon?

[iCEBREAKER]

what we're witnessing is Blockstream core dev forcing Bitcoin into their vision of what it should be.  not Satoshi's vision. 

nor the vast majority of the community's vision.

The "vast majority of the community" are not Gavinistas.  That's why your vaunted 20MB plan was #REKT like Stannis at Winterfell.




Since when are Nick Szabo, Matthew Green, and Jon Matois Blockstream core devs?

I suppose in your deranged mind MPEX is also a Blockstream core dev.

Darn those pesky Learned Elders of Blockstream!  Always hiding under my bed and conspiring in my closet!   

[cypherdoc]

interesting graph:

https://imgur.com/gallery/ml5o2UR/

[iCEBREAKER]

BitcoinXT?  More like BitcoinSX...

https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org/msg00500.html

tx1: To merchant, but dust/low-fee/reused-address/large-size/etc. anything that miners don't always accept.


tx2: After merchant gives up valuable thing in return, normal tx without triggering spam protections. (loltasticly a Mike Hearn Bitcoin XT node was used to relay the double-spends)


Example success story: tx1 paying Shapeshift.io with 6uBTC output is not dust under post-Hearn-relay-drop rules, but is dust under pre-Hearn-relay-drop rules

[brg444]

spoken like a true noob unfamiliar with the history and evolution of the space.

Mycelium, once Bitcoin Spinner, has been a MAJOR force in bringing Bitcoin to the masses thru a highly usable and clever programming team.  w/o them, Bitcoin would not be what it is today in terms of how far along we've progressed.  you're demonstrating a classic case of "everyone else is the problem but not me".  the damage to new user adoption from this problem of double spending cannot be measured. 

it's too bad your head is up your ass.

Here is a post from one of the dev fully taking responsibility for the issue:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dd1az/mycelium_downtime_comeon_guys_you_can_do_better/ct4352s

I really couldn't care less how Mycelium has been a MAJOR force in bringing Bitcoin to the noobs

See this is the problem. "Noobs" preferring user interface and "ease-of-use" in place of robust, well designed software and then crying when the software fails them because of faulty implementation.

[cypherdoc]

i think it is very clear that miners and full nodes can handle a bigger block size by what i perceive to be the decreasing # of defensive blocks and the more consistent stream of full blocks. 

PeterR, it would be good to have your colleague run that analysis to see if indeed the #'s of 0-1 tx blocks are decreasing.  that would mean that miners in China are finding out that they can indeed handle the 1MB blocks that i think we are now seeing more frequently as they have figured out that there is no longer a reason to be defensive and instead mine for the tx fees from full blocks:

[TPTB_need_war]

Armstrongs models ...

http://www.silverdoctors.com/martin-armstrong-the-stock-market-will-double-by-2015/

Lying won't help you.

I was reading Armstrong's blog daily as of August 2012 when (it was roughly 12,000) he clearly stated that either it would double before October 2015, or it would phase shift and align with private assets and then delay that double or triple until 2017. Indeed the USA stock market did rise to roughly 18,000 and then it phase shifted and so now we await the double or triple in 2017.

[cypherdoc]

looking very good:

[cypherdoc]

oops, $DJI going negative.  get ready for the next leg down:

[Zarathustra]

Armstrongs models ...

http://www.silverdoctors.com/martin-armstrong-the-stock-market-will-double-by-2015/

Lying won't help you.

I was reading Armstrong's blog daily as of August 2012 when (it was roughly 12,000) he clearly stated that either it would double before October 2015, or it would phase shift and align with private assets and then delay that double or triple until 2017. Indeed the USA stock market did rise to roughly 18,000 and then it phase shifted and so now we await the double or triple in 2017.

Funny.
He really predicted a lot of funny things:

Prediction April 2013:

Slovenia will collapse from a spending spree, not because it invested in Euro bonds.
(...)
It is true that Slovenia is not Cyprus. It is worse.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/10720


Reality 2014:

[iCEBREAKER]

I really couldn't care less how Mycelium has been a MAJOR force in bringing Bitcoin to the noobs

See this is the problem. "Noobs" preferring user interface and "ease-of-use" in place of robust, well designed software and then crying when the software fails them because of faulty implementation.

I've never used it, but Frap.doc is apparently a devoted fan of Mycelium and utterly distraught over its recent glitch.

Expecting 100% uptime from such a service and freaking out and declaring Bitcoin dead over a little outage is a professional noob move only he has mastered.

Speaking of professional noob maneuvers:



#REKT, please call your office.  Dr. LeBron Bitcoin is on line 2...something about a "vast GavinCoiner majority?"   

[Adrian-x]

BIP101, is not ideal, I'd rather have no limit, but it seemed the limit could grow faster than the Bitcoin network grows. and I like the fact that "eight" (八 Pinyin: bā) sounds similar to the word which means "wealth" in Chinese, and we have eight doubling so it should be appalling appealing to those who are governed by superstition.  

Appalling or appealing? It is hard to tell if you are serious or sarcastic.

it was a spelling mistake or a Freudian slip, I was being harsh, but lots of important decisions get made on superstitions, I've had first hand frustration working on project in China.

[Zarathustra]

Yes, but additional production is always produced via credit. A system without credit/debt does not need to grow and therefore it doesn't grow. Rain forest people are not forced to increase their 'output'. Their output does not grow in thousand years. Only nationalized people are forced to produce surplus, because they are forced to pay tribute. That's the root of credit/debt: organized violence (collectivism/society).

I am sorry but that's some weird, utterly false statements.

If I am owner of my production I will produce beyond my consumption needs (that's called capital accumulation) to improve my standard of living in the future, even if I have no debt. The capital accumulation will enhance my productivity and thus allow me to produce more output.

The output of rain forest people doesn't grow because their culture haven't evolved private property rules, it is no related to debt.

Tribal people don't have private property rules because they don't want it and because they don't need it. They live within an egalitarian community. Nobody there produces beyond consumption needs. Private property rules are always guaranteed by organized violence of the state mafia. It is a thing of the society, which is collectivism, which is the perversion of the community .

[BldSwtTrs]

Yes, but additional production is always produced via credit. A system without credit/debt does not need to grow and therefore it doesn't grow. Rain forest people are not forced to increase their 'output'. Their output does not grow in thousand years. Only nationalized people are forced to produce surplus, because they are forced to pay tribute. That's the root of credit/debt: organized violence (collectivism/society).

I am sorry but that's some weird, utterly false statements.

If I am owner of my production I will produce beyond my consumption needs (that's called capital accumulation) to improve my standard of living in the future, even if I have no debt. The capital accumulation will enhance my productivity and thus allow me to produce more output.

The output of rain forest people doesn't grow because their culture haven't evolved private property rules, it is no related to debt.

Tribal people don't have private property rules because they don't want it and because they don't need it. They live within an egalitarian community. Private property rules are always guaranteed by organized violence of the state mafia. It is a thing of the society, which is collectivism, which is the perversion of the community .

Cultural rules don't come from conscious choice.
Tribal societies aren't egalitarian. Human beings are hierarchical no matter where you look.
Violence exist among tribal societies, they are more violent than modern occidental societies.

[cypherdoc]

I really couldn't care less how Mycelium has been a MAJOR force in bringing Bitcoin to the noobs

See this is the problem. "Noobs" preferring user interface and "ease-of-use" in place of robust, well designed software and then crying when the software fails them because of faulty implementation.

I've never used it, but Frap.doc is apparently a devoted fan of Mycelium and utterly distraught over its recent glitch.

Expecting 100% uptime from such a service and freaking out and declaring Bitcoin dead over a little outage is a professional noob move only he has mastered.

Speaking of professional noob maneuvers:



#REKT, please call your office.  Dr. LeBron Bitcoin is on line 2...something about a "vast GavinCoiner majority?"   

i think it's pretty clear to everyone around here that you have a frappe.doc fetish.  i always knew you loved me.