Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[tabnloz]

Gox still has coins ?  you mean the liquidators

It might have been a interesting few weeks but really you aint seen nothing yet, this all rates as quiet compared to what should really qualify as big news.  Something like swiss backing their currency with gold should make for a 50 dollar rise pretty instantly and over weeks leading back to 1600 possibly.   Thats where I start to say ok this is interesting and I would like to see how BTC compares to large dynamic changes like that.

Japan going into recession while stoking inflation mindlessly with repetitive QE doesnt really qualify, to some this is normal.   Abe failing reelection would be news, the rise of his opposite would be worth noting.  I do expect big things like yen being refused at some point, to say so now is ridiculous but that would be news for sure

Gox 'found' 200k coins iirc. I suppose they are in the hands of liquidators. 

Things might get much more interesting. The Swiss Gold is a most newsworthy event (and bitcoins behaviour post result). If the Swiss declare 20% must be kept as gold, will others follow suit? What would be the implications for the CHF? And if the referendum is voted 'no', how will gold react, will this affect the gold/btc relationship (in line with the theme of this thread).

The other movements I mentioned are signs that the currency wars are continuing, a positive for btc.

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[kodtycoon]

hope yall are shorting crude oil...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-prices-collapse-after-opec-keeps-oil-production-unchanged

[cypherdoc]

hope yall are shorting crude oil...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-prices-collapse-after-opec-keeps-oil-production-unchanged

yes, free gas for all!:

[cypherdoc]

if Citi's William Buiter can think of Bitcoin as gold, why can't we?  this is THE opportunity we cannot afford NOT to seize going forward:

"Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny bitcoin," he wrote in his note to clients.

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-chief-economist-bitcoin-closest-commodity-gold/

[NewLiberty]

if Citi's William Buiter can think of Bitcoin as gold, why can't we?  this is THE opportunity we cannot afford NOT to seize going forward:

"Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny bitcoin," he wrote in his note to clients.

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-chief-economist-bitcoin-closest-commodity-gold/

This is the Chief Economist of Citibank panicking that their huge naked short position on paper gold could be a mistake. 

He just sold any credibility that he had with this.  He says:  Gold has no intrinsic value (like bitcoin), and that the Swiss Central Bank should instead buy derivatives and ETFs...

He is a tool, and anyone that follows his advice is a fool.

I do see a reason to buy the ETFs and derivatives though, when Citi and the rest have to unwind their positions, being leveraged on the right side of that trade will be worth a lot, but since you and I don't know when that is going to happen, why buy the paper with its time-costs?

Stick to bitcoin, and the PM phys.  Hodl a balanced portfolio of those and then when BTC surges, you can re-balance a little, if you like.

[vipgelsi]

Gold will be here in another 1000 years will bitcoin be here then?

[NewLiberty]

Gold will be here in another 1000 years will bitcoin be here then?

Will you?

[cypherdoc]

Gold will be here in another 1000 years will bitcoin be here then?

yes it will.

it might not look exactly like it does today but its essence will be with us.

[Melbustus]

Gold will be here in another 1000 years will bitcoin be here then?

Of course gold will exist in 1000 years. The thing is, it'll just be worth whatever it's industrial-use demand yields, since it's usefulness as money had terminated 1043 years prior (really ~1200years, but I'll give it some leeway).


As to Bitcoin, it'll be interesting to see how the ledger-state is transferred from system to system.

[Melbustus]

if Citi's William Buiter can think of Bitcoin as gold, why can't we?  this is THE opportunity we cannot afford NOT to seize going forward:

"Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny bitcoin," he wrote in his note to clients.

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-chief-economist-bitcoin-closest-commodity-gold/

This is the Chief Economist of Citibank panicking that their huge naked short position on paper gold could be a mistake. 

He just sold any credibility that he had with this.  He says:  Gold has no intrinsic value (like bitcoin), and that the Swiss Central Bank should instead buy derivatives and ETFs...

He is a tool, and anyone that follows his advice is a fool.

I do see a reason to buy the ETFs and derivatives though, when Citi and the rest have to unwind their positions, being leveraged on the right side of that trade will be worth a lot, but since you and I don't know when that is going to happen, why buy the paper with its time-costs?

Stick to bitcoin, and the PM phys.  Hodl a balanced portfolio of those and then when BTC surges, you can re-balance a little, if you like.

Anyone who gets hung up on notions of "intrinsic value" shouldn't be talking about money or economics. It's nuts that Citi's Chief Economist has these hang-ups. While it's nice that he's at least realized gold doesn't have some will-always-be-super-valuable status, he hasn't yet realized that the concept of intrinsic value is just a weird, very limiting, term for a specific type of demand. How he can think about economics every day and not come to this realization is beyond me.

[cypherdoc]

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

[adamstgBit]

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

[cypherdoc]

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

let your imagination run free, young Jedi.

[sickpig]

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

Adam you're back, I'm glad. I was worried I feel better now.

[ssmc2]

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

I imagine the leap from rock scooping to mining is much less than the leap from just viewing asteroids with a telescope to being able to land on one.

[XCASH]

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

I imagine the leap from rock scooping to mining is much less than the leap from just viewing asteroids with a telescope to being able to land on one.

You never know when you will get caught out by a new innovation. There is a minuscule amount of gold in each gallon of sea water. However there must be hundreds of tons of gold in an ocean.

Anyone who figures out how to extract it will be rich. Starting it up might be a little cheaper than sending mining rockets to asteroids too.

[ssmc2]

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

[cbeast]

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

It seems to be a reasonable Op-ed.

But the resources consumed in this process are necessary, given the safeguards that have to enforced to ensure the integrity of the payment system.

[Peter R]

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

How is this a fail?  David Andolfatto is pointing out that bitcoin miners serve a more socially-useful purpose than gold miners: bitcoin miners process transactions and secure the ledger (in addition to finding new bitcoins), while gold miners just find new gold.  In other words, the resources spent mining bitcoin are a necessary evil while the resources spent mining gold aren't (because we don't need gold miners to find new gold in order for the "gold ledger" to remain secure and for gold to be useful as a medium of exchange).  

[Adrian-x]

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

This is all so funny, David Andolfatto doesn't seem to be advocating Bitcoin over gold he also has a narrow understanding of Bitcoin Mining incentives, more over he seems to be supporting the pro fiat argument by criticizing the Bitcoin gold analogy in Willem Buiter City - paper. notably overlooked is the possibility of a Fiat bubble.  

Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny Bitcoin.

Central bank fiat paper currency and fiat electronic currency are socially superior to gold and Bitcoin as currencies and assets.

I just smell the fear, he's loving quantitative easing a little too much, and still trying to justify Bitcoins relevance. this looks like the "then they laugh at you" stage, and the binging of "Grief, stage 3 Bargaining"

I'm thinking Bitcoin is still strong but in for a rough ride if these types have any influence we may be testing the bottom over the next few months.