[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Gillette]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

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[wpalczynski]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

Its not about govt allowing, how will they prevent people from using XMR?.  The chokepoint with all this nonsense is the FIAT exchange.  Since BTC is already condoned by most governments and BTC can be traded for XMR people who wish to transact privately will be able to do so.

[GingerAle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

XMR, luckily, doesn't have to break AML policies. One can imagine some future auditing service wherein some company gets your viewkey. They can then see every incoming transaction to your account. If you can't provide details regarding where that money came from, then you're in trouble. If you can, then your compliant. Of course, this doesn't stop one from having multiple XMR accounts, but this "problem" also exists in bitcoin, and to some extent the contemporary banking system. Granted, its very difficult to get a contemporary bank account without using some form of identification... but moral of the story is, if "they" let bitcoin exist, there's no reason to squash Monero if "they" figure out how to properly implement viewkeys.

[GingerAle]

in fact, the service I described might actually be what banks become - auditing services. Centralized repositories of transaction data. So if big company X wants to do business with big company Y, they will pay some fee for First National Bank of Monero to inform them that their account in the blockchain is in good standing.

In essence, these services are still "banks", they are just banks of information... (which is kind of what they are today, just abstracted via money)

[smoothie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

Two words: VIEW KEY

[smoothie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes   For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Wrong. Monero has the ability to allow complete transparency if you choose to give it up.

VIEW KEY.

Just because the smoke screen is on by default and you can't see anything doesn't mean it can't be lifted if there is a need.

[smoothie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure.  

Bitcoin was so much "associated" with drug dealers and criminal online activity by the media.

The same functionality is used for USD and every other fiat currency out there.

Just because spoons are used to help make meth, doesn't mean that spoons are bad and people shouldn't use spoons.

Same goes for monero, bitcoin, cash etc. Just because people use it for a bad purpose does not mean that people shouldn't use it and can't use it for transacting.

As I said you can be completely transparent with your monero transactions if you consent to it with an auditing party or regulatory official(s) with your VIEW KEY.

[Gillette]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

XMR, luckily, doesn't have to break AML policies. One can imagine some future auditing service wherein some company gets your viewkey. They can then see every incoming transaction to your account. If you can't provide details regarding where that money came from, then you're in trouble. If you can, then your compliant. Of course, this doesn't stop one from having multiple XMR accounts, but this "problem" also exists in bitcoin, and to some extent the contemporary banking system. Granted, its very difficult to get a contemporary bank account without using some form of identification... but moral of the story is, if "they" let bitcoin exist, there's no reason to squash Monero if "they" figure out how to properly implement viewkeys.

Yeah, it`s probably the most reasonable stance!

[opennux]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

That is the classic approach. That is what people said about the internet, about cars, about most new technology. Sure, often it's those who do nefarious activities that want to utilise new technologies - as will enthusiast and then the rest of everyone else. Most things can be used for good. The same with untraceable crypto-currencies. Most use-cases are positive, good for society and mankind.

It's a precarious case for those in power, because the more they stomp the better the technology becomes. And much faster.

[opennux]

in fact, the service I described might actually be what banks become - auditing services. Centralized repositories of transaction data. So if big company X wants to do business with big company Y, they will pay some fee for First National Bank of Monero to inform them that their account in the blockchain is in good standing.

In essence, these services are still "banks", they are just banks of information... (which is kind of what they are today, just abstracted via money)

In some ways it is misunderstanding what banks are today. Banks are not predominantly retail banks anymore (or at least that is not how they make the majority of their money), they are predominantly investment banks.

[owm123]

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes   For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

So if something provides anonymity and privacy than it must be created for illegal stuff? You talking exactly like idiots from USA government about encryption.

[fujiso6]

Nobody would bother to rewrite the cryptonote white paper in such as way as to make it look like something new except a scammer.

Apparently the fact that they are claiming to have released code implementing it when they haven't supports this too.

[smoothie]

in fact, the service I described might actually be what banks become - auditing services. Centralized repositories of transaction data. So if big company X wants to do business with big company Y, they will pay some fee for First National Bank of Monero to inform them that their account in the blockchain is in good standing.

In essence, these services are still "banks", they are just banks of information... (which is kind of what they are today, just abstracted via money)

In some ways it is misunderstanding what banks are today. Banks are not predominantly retail banks anymore (or at least that is not how they make the majority of their money), they are predominantly investment banks.

i.e. Zombie banks

[smoothie]

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes   For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

So if something provides anonymity and privacy than it must be created for illegal stuff? You talking exactly like idiots from USA government about encryption.

What monero does is it takes power away from government and give it to the people. It is view as "bad" only because now the powers that be can't push their weight around as much with out evidence of wrong doing.

People are the only reason governments exist (via taxation of the people).

[dEBRUYNE]

Another nice PR just came in https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/407

I think this implements the changes recommended by the Monero Research Lab in MRL-0004

[boolberry]

Another nice PR just came in https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/407

I think this implements the changes recommended by the Monero Research Lab in MRL-0004

Very nice!

I will take a look a little bit later

[owm123]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

[opennux]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

[opennux]

Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price! 

[ArticMine]

Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price! 

I prefer the blocksize debate and the question of how a fee market can develop when there is no block subsidy. These are over the long term very serious issues in Bitcoin that are for the most part ignored. Monero has a working solution to both these issues right now. Furthermore Monero is the only POW coin in the top 20 that has a solution.