[XMR] Monero Speculation

[owm123]

Yes Monero needs real world use.
Currently it is a token traded back and forth on Poloniex so there are some work to be done still.

However, if we manage to get a network effect it is possible Monero will attract entrepreneurs who create some use for Monero. However at current state of only a few million marketcap basically nobody but a speculator is interested in Monero.

The primary aim of monero is privacy and anonymity. This is exactly what people in darknet look, for example. Unfortunately, most regular people could not care less about privacy and anonymity, unless some past transactions fully visible in a public blockchain will start hunting them. 

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[smooth]

Yes Monero needs real world use.
Currently it is a token traded back and forth on Poloniex so there are some work to be done still.

However, if we manage to get a network effect it is possible Monero will attract entrepreneurs who create some use for Monero. However at current state of only a few million marketcap basically nobody but a speculator is interested in Monero.

The primary aim of monero is privacy and anonymity. This is exactly what people in darknet look, for example. Unfortunately, most regular people could not care less about privacy and anonymity, unless some past transactions fully visible in a public blockchain will start hunting them. 

Ordinary people often not. A common attitude is "I don't really have anything to hide". High net worth individuals, professional investors, corporations, governments, etc. do certainly want to keep their dealings private and will often go to great lengths to do so.

[rpietila]

I don't know what you are awaiting to happen with Monero... It already fulfills my demands for it: it is a private and uncensorable store of value, and it can be exchanged either privately or in Poloniex with rather small difficulty to other vehicles.

It IS working. With Crypto Kingdom, it will gain more transactions, but that does not mean that the capability wasn't there already.

[rigrenter]

Anybody knows if there is some option to rent hashing power for mining CryptoNight algorithm based coins (such as Monero, etc.)?

[GingerAle]

Anybody knows if there is some option to rent hashing power for mining CryptoNight algorithm based coins (such as Monero, etc.)?

none. zilch. nada. zero. any rented hashpower would cost much much more than actually buying the coins.

[americanpegasus]

That almost bears repeating. 
 
Buying Monero on an exchange at the moment is cheaper than mining it (probably several times cheaper).   
 
The opportunity is unprecedented.  A worldwide private currency with this much going on under the hood...  That people can acquire for below mining cost? 
 
There's no such thing as Monero shilling...  Because what you are really doing is letting people know about this thing before it begins to balloon...  Some will listen and others won't, but the important thing is to give as many people a chance as possible.

[Melbustus]

That almost bears repeating. 
 
Buying Monero on an exchange at the moment is cheaper than mining it (probably several times cheaper).   
 
The opportunity is unprecedented.  ...

It's entirely precedented, as well as expected. In any even remotely efficient mining market, it'll always be cheaper for a small investor to buy the coin on the open market versus mining it. Unless someone already has a bunch of viable hardware laying around (0 capital cost) and/or cheap/free power, the average cost per GH of mining for a small player will be well above the average for all players in the overall mining market, which is about where the market value of the coin should be sitting.

This dynamic can break when dislocations in the market are occurring (rapidly changing underlying demand for the coin, or a tech trigger in the form of massively more efficient mining hardware, etc), but by and large buying the coin will be cheaper.

This has been the case with Bitcoin at least since when I first thought about mining it in 2011 (I didn't have any GPUs lying around) and it's the case with most coins of any liquidity today.

[ArticMine]

That almost bears repeating. 
 
Buying Monero on an exchange at the moment is cheaper than mining it (probably several times cheaper).   
 
The opportunity is unprecedented.  ...

It's entirely precedented, as well as expected. In any even remotely efficient mining market, it'll always be cheaper for a small investor to buy the coin on the open market versus mining it. Unless someone already has a bunch of viable hardware laying around (0 capital cost) and/or cheap/free power, the average cost per GH of mining for a small player will be well above the average for all players in the overall mining market, which is about where the market value of the coin should be sitting.

This dynamic can break when dislocations in the market are occurring (rapidly changing underlying demand for the coin, or a tech trigger in the form of massively more efficient mining hardware, etc), but by and large buying the coin will be cheaper.

This has been the case with Bitcoin at least since when I first thought about mining it in 2011 (I didn't have any GPUs lying around) and it's the case with most coins of any liquidity today.

This assumes that the heat generated in the mining process has no or negative value. The economics change drastically when it is -40 (C or F no difference) outside. 

[thefunkybits]

I think it's pretty safe to say that the wall at 0025 is fake 

Im pretty surprised at the amount of dumping going on at 002...i presume there's a bunch of short selling going on

ps. Darkcoin has been removed from Bitcoinwisdom

[Anon136]

Darkcoin has been removed from Bitcoinwisdom

woah why for?

[smooth]

Darkcoin has been removed from Bitcoinwisdom

woah why for?

Dash was delisted at Bitfinex, which was the only feed being shown on bitcoinwisdom. Why bitcoinwisdow doesn't show the cryptsy feed for it when it does show other cryptsy feeds I don't know.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I don't know what you are awaiting to happen with Monero... It already fulfills my demands for it: it is a private and uncensorable store of value, and it can be exchanged either privately or in Poloniex with rather small difficulty to other vehicles.

It IS working. With Crypto Kingdom, it will gain more transactions, but that does not mean that the capability wasn't there already.

On my behalf, I am as a speculator expecting the purchasing power to increase with Monero.
Anonymous transactions can be made also with euros or dollars if you are willing to hold and use cash.
For storing value it is required the price is stable or rather rise little by little over time (not too much to encourage excessive dumpings but also not too little to discourage the hoarding).
Against bitcoin Monero has been stable, so the bigger problem here is the price of bitcoin.
As it is obvious for many, bitcoin is not going to shoot to 1000 usd probably never again, Monero needs to be stabilized or prefertably rising against dollars or euros to attract new people holding it (the holders create the value for any coin).

Crypto Kingdom is probably the only real application one can use Moneros and the reality is the majority of people in the world will not use it (the same thing: Angry Birds are not used by the majority of World's population despite the fact that the majority of world's population probably has heared or enountered it somehow). That is, a game can be a success even though the minority of 7 billion people will use it (I call it semi-success if 100 000 Monero-paying people use it and a Jackpot if 1 000 000 or more users are achieved - still both figures are only a fraction of the population).

Monero needs the whole ecosystem to become succesful, and there will be point to create such if the market capitalzation is somewhat remarkable. I am sure there will be entrepreneurs willing to do it if they see it worthwhile taking the risk.

[owm123]

Monero needs the whole ecosystem to become succesful, and there will be point to create such if the market capitalzation is somewhat remarkable. I am sure there will be entrepreneurs willing to do it if they see it worthwhile taking the risk.

What level of market captialization would be good for that?

[TrueCryptonaire]

Monero needs the whole ecosystem to become succesful, and there will be point to create such if the market capitalzation is somewhat remarkable. I am sure there will be entrepreneurs willing to do it if they see it worthwhile taking the risk.

What level of market captialization would be good for that?

The minimum you we probably start to see startups investing into Monero ecosystem is 100 millions of usd market capitalization.
The market capitalization of bitcoin is 3-4 billion (depending on the mood of bitcoin holders) usd but they started to build it when bitcoin was trading in hunreds of millions.

[ArticMine]

Darkcoin has been removed from Bitcoinwisdom

woah why for?

Dash was delisted at Bitfinex, which was the only feed being shown on bitcoinwisdom. Why bitcoinwisdow doesn't show the cryptsy feed for it when it does show other cryptsy feeds I don't know.

It is still there but hidden https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/drkbtc

[GingerAle]

Monero needs the whole ecosystem to become succesful, and there will be point to create such if the market capitalzation is somewhat remarkable. I am sure there will be entrepreneurs willing to do it if they see it worthwhile taking the risk.

What level of market captialization would be good for that?

The minimum you we probably start to see startups investing into Monero ecosystem is 100 millions of usd market capitalization.
The market capitalization of bitcoin is 3-4 billion (depending on the mood of bitcoin holders) usd but they started to build it when bitcoin was trading in hunreds of millions.

IMO, what is really needed is a reason to use any cryptocurrency. Due to monero's true cash-like properties, I think a development that would really help things take off is person to person abilities with smartphones, which is currently only available ( i think ) with tools that use mymonero.com as a backend (which is a fine stop gap measure). And none of them have a QR reader built in, which makes them awkward to use. With person to person abilities, many of the use cases presented that have an actual need for cash-like remittances (as detailed in fluffypony's presentation) actually become feasible.

But yeah - as I see it, cryptocurrencies currently have 2 real-world functions - 1. an asset class that is free from government meddling and 2. a remittance platform for the unbanked. As stated elsewhere, the currently banked have limited reason to use an alternative means of remittance / currency, and I will posit here that the unbanked have limited limited means to get into the ecosystem (e.g., a bank account they can use to buy bitcoins to buy monero).

[Anon136]

does anyone know why it was delisted at bitfinex?

[luigi1111]

does anyone know why it was delisted at bitfinex?

https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=49

[Mike8]

A lot of huge buy orders, 5k xmr sold in on shot, a lot more big trades than usual (well, my usual), ... what happens? What did I miss?

[GingerAle]

A lot of huge buy orders, 5k xmr sold in on shot, a lot more big trades than usual (well, my usual), ... what happens? What did I miss?

Depends how long you've been out of the game. Here are some possible explanations

1. On github, the release branch is now treated as semi-stable because the development branch is back. This is indicative of the release being sooner than later.

2. On the development branch is the 0MQ implementation. (pls, use google). 0MQ is one of the big ducks to have in the row for more awesomeness down the line (namely, i2p integration - i think. I'm just regurgitating what I read elsewhere).

3. The cryptography wizards did something where the core cryptography in Monero is now aligned / references the true source of the cryptography, as opposed to cryptonote's rendition (I think I got this right. https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/0a4bc84b2f681dfd89b501648f65a951d876e2d8 )

4. Moneromoo continues to do awesomeness

And possibly, the most rationale explanations:

5. Someone got tired of waiting for their order to be filled.

6. Shapeshift had to fill up.