[XMR] Monero Speculation

[binaryFate]

You can blame the exchange for not releasing margins data though... Staff gets a tremendous insider advantage, especially with said limited liquidity and ability to trigger cascades of calls for relatively cheap.

[chennan]

edit: found it, example here:

XMR   -   Lending Earning   2.0000%   208.92286763   15%   0.15301665 XMR   2015-10-11 18:08:58

i dont get it...looks like Hour or even minute based?

Yeah its pro-rated on some pretty frequent basis. In that example you've earned 0.15 already

Thats BULLSHIT!!!!  You can kill a coin with no min fee. What if he had access to and borrowed 500k for 1 minute?

Yeah the whole margin trading thing is a bit of a joke on these assets with limited liquidity but if people want to play the game and generate commissions you can't really blame the exchanges for offering it.

I still don't really see a point of lending people money for them to trade marginally on an exchange site... I never marginal trade, so I don't really understand completely... but how is a person sure to know that the person they lent the coins too will definitely pay back and at the time they set? Do they use some kind of escrow system?  It doesn't really sound like they do, and to me it's kind of sketchy, because it's like lending some gambling addict a ton of money to gamble with..

[smooth]

You can blame the exchange for not releasing margins data though... Staff gets a tremendous insider advantage, especially with said limited liquidity and ability to trigger cascades of calls for relatively cheap.

Good point.

Google "daily fantasy sports cheating allegations" for some current events. I don't know why crypto exchanges would want to invite that kind of trouble.

[smooth]

edit: found it, example here:

XMR   -   Lending Earning   2.0000%   208.92286763   15%   0.15301665 XMR   2015-10-11 18:08:58

i dont get it...looks like Hour or even minute based?

Yeah its pro-rated on some pretty frequent basis. In that example you've earned 0.15 already

Thats BULLSHIT!!!!  You can kill a coin with no min fee. What if he had access to and borrowed 500k for 1 minute?

Yeah the whole margin trading thing is a bit of a joke on these assets with limited liquidity but if people want to play the game and generate commissions you can't really blame the exchanges for offering it.

I still don't really see a point of lending people money for them to trade marginally on an exchange site... I never marginal trade, so I don't really understand completely... but how is a person sure to know that the person they lent the coins too will definitely pay back and at the time they set? Do they use some kind of escrow system?  It doesn't really sound like they do, and to me it's kind of sketchy, because it's like lending some gambling addict a ton of money to gamble with..

You can't withdraw the borrowed coins, only trade them. However, it is theoretically possible for a market to go horribly bad such that the loans can't be repaid, and if that does happen the lender takes the loss. That is explained in the Poloniex terms.

[chennan]

edit: found it, example here:

XMR   -   Lending Earning   2.0000%   208.92286763   15%   0.15301665 XMR   2015-10-11 18:08:58

i dont get it...looks like Hour or even minute based?

Yeah its pro-rated on some pretty frequent basis. In that example you've earned 0.15 already

Thats BULLSHIT!!!!  You can kill a coin with no min fee. What if he had access to and borrowed 500k for 1 minute?

Yeah the whole margin trading thing is a bit of a joke on these assets with limited liquidity but if people want to play the game and generate commissions you can't really blame the exchanges for offering it.

I still don't really see a point of lending people money for them to trade marginally on an exchange site... I never marginal trade, so I don't really understand completely... but how is a person sure to know that the person they lent the coins too will definitely pay back and at the time they set? Do they use some kind of escrow system?  It doesn't really sound like they do, and to me it's kind of sketchy, because it's like lending some gambling addict a ton of money to gamble with..

You can't withdraw the borrowed coins, only trade them. However, it is theoretically possible for a market to go horribly bad such that the loans can't be repaid, and if that does happen the lender takes the loss. That is explained in the Poloniex terms.

Wow, again that's why I would never get or will get into marginal trading.. you have to have nerves of steel for that.  I feel like you have to know the person you are lending your coins too would have to be known being a great trader, otherwise I would never give coins to some random person.

I just feel it is better to pick an altcoin you think is going to be in it for the long haul; invest and hold... there is no other way for me to gain profit by "investing" lol... I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night with all that money on the line.

[jehst]

Ethereum use cases are 10-years early. I don't think it is helpful at the moment. I speculate on the rise of a border-less, global-scale e-cash like XMR

I'm happy to see someone else acknowledge this. Smart contract platforms like Counterparty and Ethereum sound very nifty, but nearly zero serious business people (including the Overstock guy, Patrick Byrnes) would even consider sending real money into a smart contract today. I wouldn't. Most of us want to see this concept perfected and standardized over the coming 5-10 years. I only bought cryptocurrencies after seeing other people using them for non-speculative purposes. In 2011, I saw bitcoiners buying drugs (to be honest) and in 2014, I saw XMR users playing Crypto-Kingdom. For me, the technical specifications (to the extent that I could even understand them) were never enough.

[aminorex]

I like the idea of what etheruem was intended to do but I don't like the managing of the project at all.

Simple undeniable fact is they ran out of money before coming even close to finishing their stated objectives, starting with very respectable budget of around $10-15 mill (depending on what BTC price you use). Even for $10 million they should have gotten much closer.

That is 100% proof of bad management or fraud.

Don't be so harsh.  10mm ain't what it used to be.  What, 10 good developers and office space for a year in NYC or SFO?  Moreover, given the idolatry of Butterin, it's hard to see how it could fail to result in a lot of burnination.  You would think he was the reincarnation of Elizabeth Holmes, and she's not even dead yet (nor is it proven that she ever will be).

Speculation: Still looking for 2 more days long(ish) in GBPJPY, SPX.  Remarkably, Biotech sector looks like a buy here, for the swing, about 7 days.  Hedging on XAU now, however.  Wheat may continue its correction into next week, whereupon I expect to go long again.  Oil may be a good short for the rest of the month.  XBTUSD could top out any time between now and Thursday.  Thereafter, I expect a couple of weeks of increase in XMRXBT.

[GingerAle]

I like the idea of what etheruem was intended to do but I don't like the managing of the project at all.

Simple undeniable fact is they ran out of money before coming even close to finishing their stated objectives, starting with very respectable budget of around $10-15 mill (depending on what BTC price you use). Even for $10 million they should have gotten much closer.

That is 100% proof of bad management or fraud.

Don't be so harsh.  10mm ain't what it used to be.  What, 10 good developers and office space for a year in NYC or SFO?  Moreover, given the idolatry of Butterin, it's hard to see how it could fail to result in a lot of burnination.  You would think he was the reincarnation of Elizabeth Holmes, and she's not even dead yet (nor is it proven that she ever will be).

if 10mm was wasted on office space, then I'd consider it bad management. I thought the concept of "if we get people together in proximity, stuff will happen!" died in the 90s

[Mr Felt]

if the dump continues 2-3 weeks more, I don't know what to do

Relax.  Do nothing.  Sit tight and be right.

The Monero Mustang dev team (volunteer + paid) is doing amazing work, but it will take months to finish.

Maybe put in some skunk bids, in case we revisit ~0.001.   

Pretty much right on. 

[medusa13]

no they can not guarantee to pay back the money, but if liquidity is there it should work out. i normally do not lend out money too, but since i planned to buy the coins back anyway + the rate was 2% i could not resist.
but it did not work out, next time i wont hesitate.

i do think the over all short position is still there, yesterday we just saw the bot having an issue. if he continues on margin we will see soon enough i guess

and now there are so many offers below 1%, this is really not what i wanted but yeah, market will solve it  

poloniex's policy on not publishing the data is criminal. it gives a huge atvantage not only to them, but to the rich ones, since they can afford to lend out money (and know how much there is to squeeze) + manipulate the market at the same time.

this is a real issue. i have mentioned this many times to polo, but without any success. they promised to implement it a very long time ago.

regarding eth: remember, they are located in switzerland, this sure plays a role too (developer ~140-220k p.a. / office ~160-260 per m2 p.a, prices in CHF) btw. i agree, they spent it unwise, it seems like that at least

[aminorex]

Don't take me as typical but I trade alt coin to increase me BTC

Relative to XMR, you would better efficiency were you to trade in and out of USD or EUR, since you will see much less slippage, albeit perhaps slightly less tradable volatility.

[dEBRUYNE]

Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) for Monero: A work in progress, comments welcome

https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.1_copy.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/

[Hueristic]

no they can not guarantee to pay back the money, but if liquidity is there it should work out. i normally do not lend out money too, but since i planned to buy the coins back anyway + the rate was 2% i could not resist.
but it did not work out, next time i wont hesitate.

i do think the over all short position is still there, yesterday we just saw the bot having an issue. if he continues on margin we will see soon enough i guess

and now there are so many offers below 1%, this is really not what i wanted but yeah, market will solve it  

poloniex's policy on not publishing the data is criminal. it gives a huge atvantage not only to them, but to the rich ones, since they can afford to lend out money (and know how much there is to squeeze) + manipulate the market at the same time.

this is a real issue. i have mentioned this many times to polo, but without any success. they promised to implement it a very long time ago.

regarding eth: remember, they are located in switzerland, this sure plays a role too (developer ~140-220k p.a. / office ~160-260 per m2 p.a, prices in CHF) btw. i agree, they spent it unwise, it seems like that at least

Since Polo is conforming so easily with regulations and our private information I'm sure a call from Any states attorney generals office on "why that info is insider knowledge only" would get a quick response.

I've found that office to be of use when dealing with corporations in the past, amazing what one call from them can accomplish.

[chennan]

no they can not guarantee to pay back the money, but if liquidity is there it should work out. i normally do not lend out money too, but since i planned to buy the coins back anyway + the rate was 2% i could not resist.
but it did not work out, next time i wont hesitate.

i do think the over all short position is still there, yesterday we just saw the bot having an issue. if he continues on margin we will see soon enough i guess

and now there are so many offers below 1%, this is really not what i wanted but yeah, market will solve it 

poloniex's policy on not publishing the data is criminal. it gives a huge atvantage not only to them, but to the rich ones, since they can afford to lend out money (and know how much there is to squeeze) + manipulate the market at the same time.

this is a real issue. i have mentioned this many times to polo, but without any success. they promised to implement it a very long time ago.

regarding eth: remember, they are located in switzerland, this sure plays a role too (developer ~140-220k p.a. / office ~160-260 per m2 p.a, prices in CHF) btw. i agree, they spent it unwise, it seems like that at least

Since Polo is conforming so easily with regulations and our private information I'm sure a call from Any states attorney generals office on "why that info is insider knowledge only" would get a quick response.

I've found that office to be of use when dealing with corporations in the past, amazing what one call from them can accomplish.

But wouldn't this give a Mt. Gox effect on the prices of all altcoins?  If people on Polo were on the inside, and maybe be using to pump some prices of altcoin, maybe Monero, wouldn't it have some kind of negative effect?  Not only that, but in a years time there will be another site that would do basically the same things?  It just seems like exchange sites are always dealt with some type of shady business.

[medusa13]

can somone point me to info about the bug we had with the seed in 8.8.6 ?

i think i might be a victim    some words needed to be changed no?

edit: found it, i try again and see if the money is there loool

[owm123]

Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) for Monero: A work in progress, comments welcome

https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.1_copy.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/

What is it about, ELI5?

[binaryFate]

Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) for Monero: A work in progress, comments welcome

https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.1_copy.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/

What is it about, ELI5?

So far we had:
Ring sig as in Monero -> Obfuscate the sender, amount visible
Confidential transaction by gmaxwell -> Hide amount, sender visible

Now we have both together. Moar privacy

This seems like a really elegant and useful work, I'm super grateful to Shen.

[chennan]

Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) for Monero: A work in progress, comments welcome

https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.1_copy.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/

What is it about, ELI5?

So far we had:
Ring sig as in Monero -> Obfuscate the sender, amount visible
Confidential transaction by gmaxwell -> Hide amount, sender visible

Now we have both together. Moar privacy

This seems like a really elegant and useful work, I'm super grateful to Shen.

Wow, that's super cool... I guess I'll have to take the time to read the full paper, but I'm curious as to how this is at all possible.  I mean it would seem like you would have to give one to get the other, not just have both but if they found that it is technically possible, then this would be revolutionary!

I've set the document under my bookmark so I can read it with my morning coffee when I wake up in the morning.

[smoothie]

Ring Confidential Transactions (CT) for Monero: A work in progress, comments welcome

https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/RingCT0.1_copy.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3oi16k/ring_ct_for_monero_a_work_in_progress_comments/

What is it about, ELI5?

So far we had:
Ring sig as in Monero -> Obfuscate the sender, amount visible
Confidential transaction by gmaxwell -> Hide amount, sender visible

Now we have both together. Moar privacy

This seems like a really elegant and useful work, I'm super grateful to Shen.

Wow, that's super cool... I guess I'll have to take the time to read the full paper, but I'm curious as to how this is at all possible.  I mean it would seem like you would have to give one to get the other, not just have both but if they found that it is technically possible, then this would be revolutionary!

I've set the document under my bookmark so I can read it with my morning coffee when I wake up in the morning.

reading it now...

[GingerAle]

regarding this new work by shen, so glad this hard fork schedule is starting up. Excellent foresight by the dev team to consider getting everyone accustomed with hardforks so we're ready, willing and able to continue to implement improvements in monero.