[XMR] Monero Speculation

[americanpegasus]

I can't answer your question because I reject the premise that Bitpay and Coinbase are "legit merchant processors."

Like Circle, they represent the bad old ways of TPTB, and are thus the opposite of "legit."

To believe and/or act otherwise is to reject Ranvier's Razor:

Code:

Anyone who isn’t actively working to expand and empower the informal economy is wasting their time.

 
  
In their defense they serve two very valuable functions: they allow the layman to easily escape fiat into the crypto-economy.  I know I wouldn't own any crypto right now if not for Coinbase.  
  
They also serve to further legitimize the rule of crypto.  
  
It takes many baby pebbles to start the avalanche, and though they may do evil at times as well, I think we are lucky to have them.

[boolberry]

To believe and/or act otherwise is to reject Ranvier's Razor:

Code:

Anyone who isn’t actively working to expand and empower the informal economy is wasting their time.

That is a very interesting quote. It is a valuable exercise to sit and think about its implications

[ArticMine]

...

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.

It's all about control, taking the tools away with which you would mount an challenge to the status quo is the objective. Remember your not a "Patriot" unless you give up your constitutional rights.

The issue here is that many US citizens do not understand that the pen is mightier than the sword. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pen_is_mightier_than_the_sword, They put a massive efffort to ensure that citizens have control over the sword (gun rights); however at the same time they ignore the pen, by allowing companies such as Microsoft, Apple, Facebook etc to control thier data. These same companies then turn over this control over data to the Federal Government that is so feared.

Monero is about controlling the pen; hence its current low price.

[jehst]

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/648221218773049344

A few people have asked about Zerocash. I've been keeping quiet about this because we're working hard, not because it's been dropped.

Planned Release Date: February.

This is interesting.

[owm123]

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/648221218773049344

A few people have asked about Zerocash. I've been keeping quiet about this because we're working hard, not because it's been dropped.

Planned Release Date: February.

This is interesting.

So, what does it mean for Monero? No reason to use Monero in February in terms of privacy?

[americanpegasus]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here. 
 
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost. 
 
Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy.  *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this.  Even if it was, the projects I am seeing  attempt it make no real effort at privacy. 
 
Monero gets stronger every day it exists...  Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing. 

[jwinterm]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here. 
 
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost. 
...

I love Monero as much as the next trollero, but it seems as if some/all of these issues may be solved/solvable.

1) Yes, there was recently a paper about trustless distributed zkSNARK setup requiring only one honest participant to function securely. "Secure Sampling of Public Parameters for Succinct Zero Knowledge Proofs" by Eli Ben-Sasson.

2) No, but that's inherent to any niZKP system. With confidential transactions, it's also impossible to tell if bug that allows Pederson commitment overflow has occurred and coins are generated out of nowhere.

3) In ZeroCash you can prepare and present a proof showing your intended destination and the amount of funds you received and sent, so yes, it is auditable.

ZeroCash has a rather large development team as of Q1 of this year, but they're being very hush-hush about it.

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/cveh7lx

[owm123]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here. 
 
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost. 
 
Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy.  *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this.  Even if it was, the projects I am seeing  attempt it make no real effort at privacy. 
 
Monero gets stronger every day it exists...  Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing. 

Bugs can also happen in Monero, so they are not limited to zerocash nor bitcoin, and view key is of secondary interest at the moment. Simply because you cant use monero to pay for anything, because no one is accepting it directly. So I doubt any company/service cares about view keys and regulatory compliance, if they even dont use monero.

Apparently vanilacoin has instant transactions. I dont know how it works, but it instant transaction seem possible. So maybe also possible to make it in monero.

 

[owlcatz]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.  
  
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.  
  
Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy.  *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this.  Even if it was, the projects I am seeing  attempt it make no real effort at privacy.  
  
Monero gets stronger every day it exists...  Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.  

Bugs can also happen in Monero, so they are not limited to zerocash nor bitcoin, and view key is of secondary interest at the moment. Simply because you cant use monero to pay for anything, because no one is accepting it directly. So I doubt any company/service cares about view keys and regulatory compliance, if they even dont use monero.

Apparently vanilacoin has instant transactions. I dont know how it works, but it instant transaction seem possible. So maybe also possible to make it in monero.

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1137407.0

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something?  

[ArticMine]

...

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1137407.0

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something?  

Debit is instant. You must be kidding.

[kazuki49]

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/648221218773049344

A few people have asked about Zerocash. I've been keeping quiet about this because we're working hard, not because it's been dropped.

Planned Release Date: February.

This is interesting.

This is great news if true, finally the circle of cryptocurrencies is complete, and like I have said many times before, I have no doubts Monero will keep being the best option since it offeres total privacy with optional transparency and accountability only where it really matters (block rewards, coins in circulation, etc)

btw "instant transactions" is totally overrated and I would take a coin that backs transaction confirmation with POW over anything else.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim.

This is false. What you are describing is a privilege.

A right cannot be taken away... only violated. The enumeration in the U.S. Constitution does not create, grant, or define the rights of the people. It merely observes a few important ones (not to imply that all of the infinite unobserved rights are unimportant).

Alexander Hamilton was very much against the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, fearing the exact perspective quoted above—the implication that any right not observed is surrendered, or that the Constitution is defining The People's only protections, when in reality the Constitution places no limitations on The People, and explicitly defines the only powers the government shall ever have, because only people (not organizations) can have rights.

I go further, and affirm, that Bills of Rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?

[newb4now]

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/648221218773049344

A few people have asked about Zerocash. I've been keeping quiet about this because we're working hard, not because it's been dropped.

Planned Release Date: February.

This is interesting.

This is great news if true, finally the circle of cryptocurrencies is complete, and like I have said many times before, I have no doubts Monero will keep being the best option since it offeres total privacy with optional transparency and accountability only where it really matters (block rewards, coins in circulation, etc)

btw "instant transactions" is totally overrated and I would take a coin that backs transaction confirmation with POW over anything else.

I agree about PoW. Instant transactions may indeed be far less secure (more research is needed). I like the safe approach that Monero is taking.

From my understanding optional transparency (view key) will be impossible with zerocash

[owm123]

...

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1137407.0

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something?  

Debit is instant. You must be kidding.

I meant service providers or internet shops. A monero dev selling or renting his house for xmr does not count, or exchanging virtual monero to physical monero also.

The zero acceptance of xmr is really depressing. Take Tor for example. You can donate to the Tor project with cyrpto, but, they dont directly accept xmr. No such option listed:
https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Same goes for i2p: https://geti2p.net/en/get-involved/donate

One would think that such projects, which primary goal is privacy would understand and appreciate Monero's privacy features. But this is clearly not the case. The only way to use xmr to donate to them directly would be to write an email, asking kindly if they take your xmr. Otherwise they seem to be not interested.

So at the moment you cant even donate xmr directly to privacy oriented services, let alone buying something such as vpn or secure email.

And xmr.to does not count, as its easier to directly donate btc, i.e. btc->service, rather than go btc->xmr->xmr.to->btc->service.

[GingerAle]

...

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1137407.0

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something?  

Debit is instant. You must be kidding.

I meant service providers or internet shops. A monero dev selling or renting his house for xmr does not count, or exchanging virtual monero to physical monero also.

The zero acceptance of xmr is really depressing. Take Tor for example. You can donate to the Tor project with cyrpto, but, they dont directly accept xmr. No such option listed:
https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Same goes for i2p: https://geti2p.net/en/get-involved/donate

One would think that such projects, which primary goal is privacy would understand and appreciate Monero's privacy features. But this is clearly not the case. The only way to use xmr to donate to them directly would be to write an email, asking kindly if they take your xmr. Otherwise they seem to be not interested.

So at the moment you cant even donate xmr directly to privacy oriented services, let alone buying something such as vpn or secure email.

And xmr.to does not count, as its easier to directly donate btc, i.e. btc->service, rather than go btc->xmr->xmr.to->btc->service.

C'mon man, thats not the monero way! 

This is the monero way! >>> https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2392/privately-donate-to-privacy-oriented-services

[smoothie]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here. 
 
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost. 
 
Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy.  *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this.  Even if it was, the projects I am seeing  attempt it make no real effort at privacy. 
 
Monero gets stronger every day it exists...  Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing. 

Bugs can also happen in Monero, so they are not limited to zerocash nor bitcoin, and view key is of secondary interest at the moment. Simply because you cant use monero to pay for anything, because no one is accepting it directly. So I doubt any company/service cares about view keys and regulatory compliance, if they even dont use monero.

Apparently vanilacoin has instant transactions. I dont know how it works, but it instant transaction seem possible. So maybe also possible to make it in monero.

 

Well currently bitcoin and monero have stood the test of at least 1.5 years (for monero) which says something even after being "attacked" by BCX.

Zerocoin/cash has not seen the light of day.

A view key is important as how will it achieve any legitimacy if purely it has to way of being transparent without giving away too many details for audit/tax purposes.

Just because a view key isn't used widely in that application doesn't mean it can't in the future.

It is better to be prepared and not need it than to be unprepared and need it down the road and it be too late.

[phishead]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here. 
 
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost. 
 
Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy.  *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this.  Even if it was, the projects I am seeing  attempt it make no real effort at privacy. 
 
Monero gets stronger every day it exists...  Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing. 

For XMR to be almost "instant" in it's payouts, wouldn't that mean that there would have to be millions and millions of nodes running all at the same time?  How many nodes does Monero have running as of right now?

[owm123]

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.  
  
The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.  
  
Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy.  *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this.  Even if it was, the projects I am seeing  attempt it make no real effort at privacy.  
  
Monero gets stronger every day it exists...  Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.  

For XMR to be almost "instant" in it's payouts, wouldn't that mean that there would have to be millions and millions of nodes running all at the same time?  How many nodes does Monero have running as of right now?

I think the number is 300+ of full nodes.

Some are included here: http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz/
Note: Its beginning of week, so this stat is strange at the beginig always, as its is not fully populated. Yesterday it was 320 i think.

and 90+ listed here: https://monerohash.com/nodes-distribution.html

[XMRpromotions]

C'mon man, thats not the monero way!  

This is the monero way! >>> https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2392/privately-donate-to-privacy-oriented-services

Great idea, particularly the part about helping them get set up. Not every merchant and charity is tech savvy enough to do so on their own. I hope this idea gets funding (xmr and pledges for technical help) soon.

https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/648353833769238528

[owm123]

C'mon man, thats not the monero way!  

This is the monero way! >>> https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2392/privately-donate-to-privacy-oriented-services

Great idea, particularly the part about helping them get set up. Not every merchant and charity is tech savvy enough to do so on their own. I hope this idea gets funding (xmr and pledges for technical help) soon.

https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/648353833769238528

Nice. Can you also post in on r/Monero?