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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3313494 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 1+ user deleted.)
americanpegasus
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October 17, 2015, 05:19:57 AM
 #9901



*EDIT* Really AP? You couldn't let the new guy enjoy the spotlight?
 
  
MFW
 

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
chennan
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October 17, 2015, 05:25:53 AM
 #9902

2...

WOOOOO! HAPPY 10000 EVERYONE! Sorry I took this much desired spot from avid monero supporters... I didn't really expect to get it, but well... I just want to say that I'm really happy to have been introduced here.  Actually it was someone's signature that caught my eye one time, and now I frequent here more than any other thread.

You earned a Tweet in recognition of your post. We are glad you found the Monero community. Lets continue to help the world discover the best method of protecting their financial privacy, one person at a time.

https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/655251059691028480

Aww, shucks guys... you are making me blush... and I want to formally apologize to AP. If anyone deserved it more, it would be him for being so adamantly selling me on XMR pretty much everyday. I would just read some of his stuff here, and honestly that halloween AMA was the best thing I've seen in a while.. crypto or not.

So I'm sorry AP, I do like being "tweeted" though.. even though I don't participate on any social media besides here. (If you consider this social media)...

2...

WOOOOO! HAPPY 10000 EVERYONE! Sorry I took this much desired spot from avid monero supporters... I didn't really expect to get it, but well... I just want to say that I'm really happy to have been introduced here.  Actually it was someone's signature that caught my eye one time, and now I frequent here more than any other thread.

Feel free to post an XMR address for a small prize.  Smiley

Naww, I couldn't.. I would feel bad because I took away such a significant spot in XMR history just because I refreshed the page at the right time... lol.

iCEBREAKER
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October 17, 2015, 05:27:51 AM
Last edit: October 17, 2015, 07:25:40 AM by iCEBREAKER
 #9903

Hmmmm, so if I post here and then delete an old post will I steal the spot from you?Huh   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  
  
Let's find out.  Wink  
  
edit: oh god it worked; I feel awful.   Roll Eyes   Let it be known that chennan had the real post 10,000

Quote
#10000

lol rekt


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
chennan
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October 17, 2015, 05:33:13 AM
 #9904

2...

WOOOOO! HAPPY 10000 EVERYONE! Sorry I took this much desired spot from avid monero supporters... I didn't really expect to get it, but well... I just want to say that I'm really happy to have been introduced here.  Actually it was someone's signature that caught my eye one time, and now I frequent here more than any other thread.
 
 
Hmmmm, so if I post here and then delete an old post will I steal the spot from you?Huh   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy 
 
Let's find out.  Wink 
 
Monero to $10,000 USD EACH by 2020! 
 


edit: oh god it worked; I feel awful.   Roll Eyes   Let it be known that chennan had the real post 10,000

HAHAHA! Oh noooo!!!! That actually worked?? AP, you truly deserve it.. so I have no problem with this at all. But what you just did man... mind = blown.


generalizethis
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October 17, 2015, 05:58:11 AM
 #9905



*EDIT* Really AP? You couldn't let the new guy enjoy the spotlight?
 
  
MFW
 

All in good fun  Tongue

phishead
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October 17, 2015, 06:00:49 AM
 #9906

Aww, man... I'm too late for the party??! I was hoping to be here for that, just got off work and saw everything went down already..  Undecided Anyways congrats Chennan!

So getting back to XMR... how long do you guys think this bull is going to be running?  Not for bitcoin, but for xmr... do you think it's pumpers hoping on a "hype train" to a certain point where they will just dump it on poloneix?
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October 17, 2015, 06:20:38 AM
 #9907

Congrats to everybody!
americanpegasus
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October 17, 2015, 07:03:48 AM
 #9908

I have my own special post #10,000 present.  I've spent the evening combing through THE CYPHERNOMICON back from 1994 and digging out all the relevant sections about Monero and digital cash and annotating them.  There is some mind blowing stuff buried in there. 
 
https://cpunks.wordpress.com/cypherpunks-faq/ 
 
The future is clearer to me than ever.

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
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October 17, 2015, 08:12:26 AM
 #9909



*EDIT* Really AP? You couldn't let the new guy enjoy the spotlight?
 
  
MFW
 
Karpeles?
Oscilson
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October 17, 2015, 08:42:10 AM
 #9910

Congrats to everybody!

On what?
americanpegasus
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October 17, 2015, 09:09:09 AM
 #9911

Introduction:  
Warning: This is a HUGE post, and if you reply to it and quote it, Smooth will likely delete your post.  Please don't do this!

 
As you may know, I didn't exactly roll a natural 18 under the Arithmatic stat: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fgrk5/how_long_would_we_have_to_use_bitcoin_before_we/ctomj9y
  
However, I have other talents, very analog ones.  Among my tomb-raiding today, I found an old link to a massive document about cryptography created in 1994.  This was a time when the brightest minds on the planet trying to figure out how to implement cryptography into every day life.  It was also the year before the infamous "Violence @ NBC" video where the hilarious inept Today Show hosts didn't even understand an email address - much less the greater internet (https://youtu.be/95-yZ-31j9A).    
  
So these were the Internet Middle Ages; bronze and steel had been invented, but we were still learning how to shape it into useful things.  Now imagine my shock to find an incredible amount of prophecy written in this document about not just the eventual emergence of Bitcoin, but also Monero as well.  Along with some other zany Nostradamous-level call outs, there are the occasional claims that "digital coins may be impossible" which we can only look back 20 years and smile on, knowing that the future solves all problems.  In fact, I hope the author of this document is still around today: perhaps his 1994 self would be both horrified and relieved to know that true digital cash is eventually invented; it just takes two decades for it to happen.  
  
I'm only going to cover a few highly relevant sections here.  Currently this entire piece of history is available in full over on https://cpunks.wordpress.com/cypherpunks-faq/  
  
The Heavily-Abridged Cyphernomicon:  

     
Quote
   
5.4.4
    
    + Digital Cash
        - focus: privacy in transactions, purchases
        - unlinkable credentials
        - blinded notes
        - "digital coins" may not be possible
    
    5.5.9
    + can a "digital coin" be made?
        - this is formally similar to the idea of an active agent
           that is unforgeable, in the sense that the agent or coin
           is "standalone"
        + bits can always be duplicated (unless tied to hardware,
           as with TRMs), so must look elsewhere
          + could tie the bits to a specific location, so that
             duplication would be obvious or useless
            - the idea is vaguely that an agent could be placed in
               some location...duplications would be both detectable
               and irrelevant (same bits, same behavior,
               unmodifiable because of digital signature)

  
This fills me with happiness that back then we were wondering if the idea of a digital coin were even possible... and yet here we are.  We did it... humanity achieved the impossible.  
  
    
Quote
   10.8.5. "Why might digital cash and related techologies take hold
       early in illegal markets? That is, will the Mob be an early
       adopter?"
      - untraceability needed
      - and reputations matter to them
      - they've shown in the past that they will try new
         approaches, a la the money movements of the drug cartels,
         novel methods for security, etc.  
 
Basically exactly what happened.  As with all new technology, the criminals quickly latched onto it.  
  
  
Quote
   10.8.6. "Electronic cash...will it have to comply with laws, and
       how?"
      - Concerns will be raised about the anonymity aspects, the
         usefulness for evading taxes and reporting requirements,
         etc.
      - a messy issue, sure to be debated and legislated about for
         many years
      + split the cash into many pieces...is this "structuring"? is
         it legal?
        - some rules indicate the structuring per se is not
           illegal, only tax evasion or currency control evasion
        - what then of systems which _automatically_, as a basic
           feature, split the cash up into multiple pieces and move
           them?  
 
We know the answer now.  The key to anonymity is to mix the coins together automatically on a protocol level, "splitting" the amounts up.  The secret to creating the first true digital coin was to stop thinking of them as 'coins' at all: if a bit can be copied freely, then don't resist that - embrace it to the maximal limit.  *If everyone has a copy, then no one has a copy*  
  
  
Quote
   10.8.7. Currency controls, flight capital regulations, boycotts,
       asset seizures, etc.
      - all are pressures to find alternate ways for capital to
         flow
      - all add to the lack of confidence, which, paradoxically to
         lawmakers, makes capital flight all the more likely  

    10.8.8. "Will banking regulators allow digital cash?"
      - Not easily, that's for sure. The maze of regulations,
         restrictions, tax laws, and legal rulings is daunting. Eric
         Hughes spent a lot of time reading up on the laws regarding
         banks, commercial paper, taxes, etc., and concluded much
         the same. I'm not saying it's impossible--indeed, I believe
         it will someday happen, in some form--but the obstacles are
         formidable.
      + Some issues:
        + Will such an operation be allowed to be centered or based
           in the U.S.?
          - What states? What laws? Bank vs. Savings and Loan vs.
             Credit Union vs. Securities Broker vs. something else?
        + Will customers be able to access such entities offshore,
           outside the U.S.?
          - strong crypto makes communication possible, but it may
             be difficult, not part of the business fabric, etc.
             (and hence not so useful--if one has to send PGP-
             encrypted instructions to one's banker, and can't use
             the clearing infrastructure....)
        + Tax collection, money-laundering laws, disclosure laws,
           "know your customer" laws....all are areas where a
           "digital bank" could be shut down forthwith. Any bank not
           filling out the proper forms (including mandatory
           reporting of transactions of certain amounts and types,
           and the Social Security/Taxpayer Number of customers)
           faces huge fines, penalties, and regulatory sanctions.
          - and the existing players in the banking and securities
             business will not sit idly by while newcomers enter
             their market; they will seek to force newcomers to jump
             through the same hoops they had to (studies indicate
             large corporations actually _like_ red tape, as it
             helps them relative to smaller companies)  
 
Basically describes NY's BitLicense and other nonsense to a tee.  Yes, in order to make crypto "play nice" with the relics of the past there is a shit ton of regulation to wade through first.  
  

 
Quote
    - Concluson: Digital banks will not be "launched" without a
         *lot* of work by lawyers, accountants, tax experts,
         lobbyists, etc. "Lemonade stand digital banks" (TM) will
         not survive for long. Kids, don't try this at home!  
 
Blink and you'll miss it.  This hombre just issued a warning to Mark Karples and Mt. Gox a decade and a half before it even existed!!!    
  

Quote
     - (Many new industries we are familiar with--software,
         microcomputers--had very little regulation, rightly so. But
         the effect is that many of us are unprepared to understand
         the massive amount of red tape which businesses in other
         areas, notably banking, face.)  

    10.8.9. Legal obstacles to digital money. If governments don't want
       anonymous cash, they can make things tough.
      + As both Perry Metzger and Eric Hughes have said many times,
         regulations can make life very difficult. Compliance with
         laws is a major cost of doing business.
        - ~"The cost of compliance in a typical USA bank is 14% of
           operating costs."~ [Eric Hughes, citing an "American
           Banker" article, 1994-08-30]
      + The maze of regulations is navigable by larger
         institutions, with staffs of lawyers, accountants, tax
         specialists, etc., but is essentially beyond the
         capabilities of very small institutions, at least in the
         U.S.
        - this may or may not remain the case, as computers
           proliferate. A "bank-in-a-box" program might help. My
           suspicion is that a certain size of staff is needed just
           to handle the face-to-face meetings and hoop-jumping.  
 
As is discussed later, too much regulation early on can be absolutely fatal.  We are almost past that danger zone though (bitcoin is well past it), and I think once the under-the-hood work is complete and the GUI is out next year we will finally move past that precipice.  
  
Quote
     + "New World Order"
        - U.S. urging other countries to "play ball" on banking
           secrecy, on tax evasion extradition, on immigration, etc.
        - this is closing off the former loopholes and escape
           hatches that allowed people to escape repressive
           taxation...the implications for digital money banks are
           unclear, but worrisome.  
 
This is the safety blanket for those who are afraid of the United States losing its dominance in an eventual crypto dominated world.  If one world government is inevitable, far better to usher in its creation and own a major slice of it rather than resist it and find ourselves as the new North Korea.  This way we can control who participates vs. being spectators.  For example, the internet was always going to exist; it was only a question of who created it first.  
    
  
Quote
   10.9. Legality of Digital Banks and Digital Cash?
    10.9.1. In terms of banking laws, cash reporting regulations, money
       laundering statutes, and the welter of laws connected with
       financial transactions of all sorts, the Cypherpunks themes
       and ideas are basically _illegal_. Illegal in the sense that
       anyone trying to set up his own bank, or alternative currency
       system, or the like would be shut down quickly. As an
       informal, unnoticed _experiment_, such things are reasonably
       safe...until they get noticed.  
  
    10.9.2. The operative word here is "launch," in my opinion. The
       "launch" of the BankAmericard (now VISA) in the 1960s was  not
       done lightly or casually...it required armies of lawyers,
       accountants, and other bureacrats to make the launch both
       legal and successful. The mere 'idea" of a credit card was
       not enough...that was essentially the easiest part of it all.
       (Anyone contemplating the launch of a digital cash system
       would do well to study BankAmericard as an example...and
       several other examples also.)  
  
    10.9.3. The same will be true of any digital cash or similar system
       which intends to operate more or less openly, to interface
       with existing financial institutions, and which is not
       explicity intended to be a Cypherpunkish underground
       activity.  
 
This perfectly encapsulates the themes of the successful cryptocurrencies that we have seen.  Start small, and slowly build.  Don't draw *too* much attention to yourself too quickly, and for fuck's sake keep a low profile.  Once things seem to be going well, take a small risk to grow.  Keep taking these risks and look for key opportune moments to strike at rivals and decimate them completely, absorbing their.... hey, wait.  Are we talking about cryptocurrency or a successful agar.io strategy?  Wink  Cheesy  The universe is full of so many delicious coincidences.  
    
  
  
Quote
 12.3.8. "Can a "digital coin" be made?"
      - The answer appears to be "no"
      + Software is infinitely copyable, which means a software
         representation of digital money could be replicated many
         times  
        - this is not to say it could be _spent_ many times,
           depending on the clearing process...but then this is not
           a "coin" in the sense we mean
      - Software is trivially replicable, unlike gold or silver
         coins, or even paper currency. If and when paper currency
         becomes trivially replicable (and color copiers have almost
         gotten there), expect changes in the nature of cash.
         (Speculation: cash will be replaced by smart cards,
         probably not of the anonymous sort we favor.)
      + bits can always be duplicated (unless tied to hardware, as
         with TRMs), so must look elsewhere
        + could tie the bits to a specific location, so that
           duplication would be obvious or useless
          - the idea is vaguely that an agent could be placed in
             some location...duplications would be both detectable
             and irrelevant (same bits, same behavior, unmodifiable
             because of digital signature)
      - (this is formally similar to the idea of an active agent
         that is unforgeable, in the sense that the agent or coin is
         "standalone")    
 
Again, the answer was always to stop thinking about it as a coin and think about it as a ledger.  When forces in life challenge you and your desires, it is far better to properly direct their energies vs. struggling against them.  You will find that many eastern philosophers discovered this tennant long ago and used it to great success for thousands of years.  When the nature of digital information resists being made precious - do the exact opposite: make a successful digital cash system with the information as ubiquitous.  When AmericanPegasus won't shut the fuck up about whatever-he's-posting today, don't continue to fight a losing battle: at least direct his efforts towards something worthwhile.  Smiley  
  
  
Quote
 12.3.9. "What is the 'granularity' of digital cash?"
      + fine granularity, e.g., sub-cent amounts
        - useful for many online transactions
        - inside computers
        - add-on fees by interemediaries
        - very small purchases
      + medium granularity
        - a few cents, up to a dollar (for example)
        - also useful for many small purchases
        - close equivalent to "loose change" or small bills, and
           probably useful for the same purposes
        - tolls, fees, etc.
        - This is roughly the level many DigiCash protocols are
           aimed at
      + large granularity
        - multiple dollars
        - more like a "conventional" online transaction
      - the transaction costs are crucial; online vs. offline
     clearing
      - Digital Silk Road is a proposal by Dean Tribble and Norm
     Hardy to reduce transaction costs  
 
Nigga *what*.  It wasn't mentioned in the vein of an online illegal market place, but this is still the earliest mention of a 'Silk Road' that I can find on the internet in relation to digital currency.  
  
    
  
 
Quote
  12.7.2. "What are some motivations for anonymous digital cash?"
      + Payments that are unlinkable to identity, especially for
         things like highway tolls, bridge tolls, etc.
        - where linkablity would imply position tracking
        - (Why not use coins? This idea is for "smart card"-type
           payment systems, involving wireless communication.
           Singapore planned (and perhaps has implemented) such a
           system, except there were no privacy considerations.)
      + Pay for things while using pseudonyms
        - no point in having a pseudonym if the payment system
           reveals one's identity
      + Tax avoidance
        - this is the one the digicash proponents don't like to
           talk about too loudly, but it's obviously a time-honored
           concern of all taxpayers
      + Because there is no compelling reason why money should be
         linked to personal identity
        - a general point, subsuming others  
 
We can see resistance to Bitcoin's pseudo-anonymous "solutions" even now.  As I always have said, Bitcoin was the first true digital decentralized collectible but it was *not* true e-cash.  Privacy and fungibility go hand in hand.  
    
  
Quote
   12.8.4. Nick Szabo:
      - "Internet commercialization in itself is a _huge_ issue
         full of pitfall and  opportunity: Mom & Pop BBS's,
         commercial MUDs, data banks, for-profit pirate and porn
         boards, etc. are springing  up everywhere like weeds,
         opening a vast array of both needs of privacy and ways to
         abuse privacy.  Remailers, digital cash, etc. won't become
         part of this Internet commerce way of life unless they are
         deployed soon, theoretical flaws and all, instead of
         waiting until The Perfect System comes along.  Crypto-
         anarchy in the real world will be messy, "nature red in
         tooth and claw", not all nice and clean like it says in the
         math books.  Most of thedebugging will be done not in any
         ivory tower, but by the bankruptcy of businesses who
         violate their customer's privacy, the confiscation of BBS
         operators who stray outside the laws of some jurisdication
         and screw up their privacy arrangements, etc. Anybody who
         thinks they can flesh out a protocol in secret and then
         deploy it, full-blown and working, is in for a world of
         hurt.  For those who get their Pretty Good systems out
         there and used, there is vast potential for business growth
         -- think of the $trillions confiscated every year by
         governments around the world, for example." [Nick Szabo,
         1993-8-23]  
 
Got-damn.  It's the mother-fuckin Tupac of Cryptography.  "I wrote this text file a long time ago.... way back in '94"  
  
https://youtu.be/zDdbn0eTDpA?t=29s  
  
  
Quote
   15.8.2. Absent laws which ban strong crypto (and such laws are
       themselves nearly unenforceable), it will be essentially
       impossible to stop anonymous transactions and purely
       reputation-based systems.
      - For example, Pr0duct Cypher and Sue D. Nym will be able to
         use private channels of their own choosing (possibly using
         anonymous pools, etc.) to communicate and arrange deals.  
         If some form of digital cash exists, they will even be able to
         transfer this cash. (If not, barter of informations,
         whatever.)
      - So, the issues raised by Hal Finney and others, expressing
         doubts about the adequacy of reputation capital as a
         building block (and good concerns they are, by the way),
         become moot. Society cannot stop willing participants from
         using reputation and anonymity. This is a major theme of
         crypto anarchy: the bypassing of convention by willing
         participants.
      + If Alice and Bob don't care that their physical identies
         are unknown to each other, why should we care? That is, why
         should society step in and try to ban this arrangement?
        - they won't be using "our" court systems, so that's not an
           issue (and longer term, PPLs will take the place of
           courts, many of us feel)
        - only if Alice and Bob are counting on society, on third
           parties to the transaction, to do certain things, can
           society make a claim to be involved
        - (A main reason to try to ban anonymity will be to stop
           "bad" activities, which is a separate issue; banning of
           "bad" activity is usually pointless, and leads to
           repressive states. But I digress.)
    15.8.3. Part of the "phase change": people opt out of the     permission-
       slip society via strong crypto, making their own decisions on
       who to trust, who to deal with, who to make financial
       arrangements with
      + example: credit rating agencies that are not traceable, not
         prosecutable in any court...people deal with them only if
         they think they are getting value for their money
        - no silly rules that credit rating data can "only" go back
           some arbitrary number of years (7, in U.S.)...no silly
           rules about how certain bankruptcies "can't" be
           considered, how one's record is to be "cleared" if
           conditions are met, etc.
        - rather, all data are considered....customer decides how
           to weight the data...(if a customer is too persnickety
           about past lapsed bills, or a bad debt many years in the
           past, he'll find himself never lending any money, so the
           "invisible hand" of the free market will tend to correct
           such overzealousnesses)  
 
Got to get that Hal Finney SHOUT OUT.  While NWA was in Detroit causing fans to rush the stage, Hal Finney was straight outta Coalinga changing the world in other ways.  
  
Also, in this section pay attention to the text,
it's important because it gives us insight into what's next,
in the 2020's after the rise of digital money,
Cryptography based reputation systems are gonna,
rise up, like this bottle of Berry Ciroc,
left from the Halloween videos so let's wrap it up.  
    
  
Quote
   16.16.3. Doug Cutrell summarized the concerns of many when  he wrote:
      - "...the availability of truly secure anonymity, strong
         encryption, and untraceable digital cash could allow
         contract killing to be an openly conducted business.  For
         example, an anonymous news post announces a public key
         which is to be used to encode a contract kill order, along
         with a digital cash payment.  The person placing the
         contract need only anonymously place the encrypted message
         in alt.test.  Perhaps it is even possible to make it
         impossible to tell that the message was encrypted with the
         contract killer's public key (the killer would have to
         attempt decryption of all similarly encoded messages on
         alt.test, but that might be quite feasible).  Thus it could
         be completely risk free for anyone to place a contract on
         anyone else." [Doug Cutrell, 1994-09-09]
    16.16.4. Abhorrent markets
      - contract killings
      - can collect money anonymously to have someone
         whacked...nearly anyone who is controversial can generate
         enough "contributions"
      - kidnapping, extortion
    16.16.5. Dealing with Such Things:
      + never link physical ID with pseudonyms! (they won't kill
         you if they don't know who you are)
        - and even if one pseudonym is linked, make sure your
           financial records are not linkable
      - trust no one
      - increased physical security...make the effort of killing
         much more potentially dangerous
      - flooding attacks..tell extortionists to "get in line"
         behind all the other extortionists
      + announce to world that one does not pay extortionists...set
         up protocol to ensure this
        - yes, some will die as a result of this
      - console yourself with the fact that though some may die,
         fewer are dying as a result of state-sponsored wars and
         terrorism (historically a bigger killer than contract
         killings!)  
 
.....or not.  In the scariest part of this entire article we find the truly horrifying ramifications of what anonymous communications and anonymous currency will do.  Don't resist it, because it will happen whether we want it to or not.  So what to do?  Prepare for it and anticipate.  Law enforcement should be ready to catch an entirely new class of criminal in the future, and we should all be prepared to protect ourselves (especially non-anon dumbasses like me - but I'll tell y'all what, I don't/won't negotiate with bad guys because it only encourages them, and as soon as this shit gets 'real' imma hire some 'real' security)  
    
  
 
Quote
  16.29.3. "What is the "crypto phase change"?"
      - I'm normally skeptical of claims that a "singularity" is
         coming (nanotechnology being the usual place this is
         claimed, a la Vinge), but "phase changes" are more
         plausible. The effect of cheap printing was one such phase
         change, altering the connectivity of society and the
         dispersion of knowledge in a way that can best be described
         as a phase change. The effects of strong crypto, and the
         related ideas of digital cash, anonymous markets, etc., are
         likely to be similar.
      - transition
      - tipping factors, disgust by populace, runaway taxation
      + "leverage effect"
        - what Kelly called "the fax effect"
        - crypto use spreads, made more popular by common use
      - can nucleate in a small group...doesn't need mass
         acceptance
    16.29.4. "Can crypto anarchy be stopped?"
      + A goal is to get crypto widely enough deployed that it
         cannot then be stopped
        - to the point of no return, where the cost of withdrawing
           or banning a technology is simply too high (not always a
           guaranteee)  
 
Yes, a phase change is coming.  In it, we are going to see borders reduced and a 'world currency' standard established.  It's going to be absolutely epic.... in both good and bad ways.  Some will opt out, but those will quickly find themselves stuck in the stone age as more and more of the first world opts-*in*.  Eventually, nations that try to wall themselves off from the coming phase shift will end up as the next North Korea's.... laughing stock wastelands.  I think the United States and most of Europe is smart enough not to let this happen.  My only worry is for Russia and I hope they find the light soon enough that they don't become a third world country.  
    
  
 
Quote
  17.3.1. "Why have most of the things Cypherpunks talk about  *not*
       happened?"
      + Except for remailers and basic crypto, few of the main
         ideas talked about for so long have actually seen any kind
         of realization. There are many reasons:
       A. Difficult to achieve. Both Karl Kleinpaste and Eric
           Hughes implemented simple first-generation remailers in a
           matter of _days_, but "digital cash" and "aptical
           foddering," for example, are not quite so
           straightforward. (I am of course not taking anything away
           from Kleinpaste, Hughes, Helsingius, Finney, etc., just
           noting that redirecting mail messages--and even
           implementing PGP and things like delay, batching, etc.,
           into remailers--is a lot easier conceptually than DC-Nets
           and the like.  
 
...It took a long, long time to make it.... through the hard times and the good....  
  
Quote
   17.13.4. "When will it all happen? When will strong crypto really
       begin to have a major effect on the economy?"
      + Stages:
        - The Prehistoric Era. Prior to 1975. NSA and other
           intelligence agencies controlled most crypto work.
           Cryptography seen as a hobby. DES just starting to be
           deployed by banks and financial institutions.
        - The Research Era. 1975-1992. Intense interest in public
           key discovery, in various protocols. Start of several
           "Crypto" conferences. Work on digital money, DC-Nets,
           timestamping, etc.
        - The Activism Era. 1992--?? (probably 1998). PGP 2.0
           released. Cypherpunks formed. Clipper announced--meets
           firestorm of protest. EFF, CPSR, EPIC, other groups.
           "Wired" starts publication. Digital Telelphony, other
           bills. Several attempts to start crypto businesses are
           made...most founder.
        - The Transition Era. After about 1999. Businesses start.
           Digital cash needed for Net transactions. Networks and
           computers fast enough to allow more robust protocols. Tax  
           havens flourish. "New Underworld Order" (credit to Claire
           Sterling) flourishes.  
 
Then I wonder what they would call us in our era?  The Age of Enlightenment?  No, that comes next.  First is the great shift.... where the greatest wealth transfer in the history of mankind takes place.  
  

Conclusions

 
After reading through this document I can see that not only was cryptocurrency not a random mistake, but even Monero was a dream long sought after by the greatest minds on the planet.  What does that mean?  It means to get ready, because this thing is slowly coming together in a big way.  And Monero is no alt-coin.  This is the first valid implementation of Cryptonote, and from everything I can see will eventually serve as the private ledger for our entire fucking planet.  I'm not talking $2,000 Moneros.... I'm talking $300,000 Moneros by 2030.  And the more I ponder how it will happen, the more I realize that we are somewhere on an S-curve of adoption.  And perhaps no one really knows where that vertical part of that S-curve is, but when it hits, you'll know.  You will see Monero users go from 10 million to 1 billion very, very quickly.  The price will skyrocket and we will see the vast majority of humanity's wealth transfer into it.  
  
At least, that's what this bottle of Ciroc is telling me will happen.  But then again, you shouldn't believe anything I say: I sometimes have trouble with even simple math.  Wink  
  
Have a good weekend everyone.

Account is back under control of the real AmericanPegasus.
QuantumQrack
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October 17, 2015, 09:23:45 AM
 #9912

2...

WOOOOO! HAPPY 10000 EVERYONE! Sorry I took this much desired spot from avid monero supporters... I didn't really expect to get it, but well... I just want to say that I'm really happy to have been introduced here.  Actually it was someone's signature that caught my eye one time, and now I frequent here more than any other thread.

Glad it was new comer. It's a good sign.  Grin

*EDIT* Really AP? You couldn't let the new guy enjoy the spotlight?

Agree, kind of juvenile.
americanpegasus
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October 17, 2015, 09:28:22 AM
 #9913



Agree, kind of juvenile.
 
 
https://youtu.be/wO_MYX_Oto0

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October 17, 2015, 10:06:22 AM
Last edit: October 17, 2015, 10:23:33 AM by medusa13
 #9914

3d candles looks promising to me, maybe it was the shorter himself closing a part, looks possible regarding the fake downward pressure we had in the last few days.
lets see how the 1w candle plays out, if we all want to see the hammer there will be a hammer.

congrats on the 10000 posts, cant wait for the next 10k Kiss


XMR Monero
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October 17, 2015, 11:48:18 AM
 #9915

Interesting view: https://i.imgur.com/EeIKlHA.png

Everything down except monero. Any speculations why?

Bitcoin is NOT anonymous: http://www.bitcoinisnotanonymous.com
illodin
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October 17, 2015, 11:55:53 AM
 #9916

Interesting view: https://i.imgur.com/EeIKlHA.png

Everything down except monero. Any speculations why?

Risto's Finnish company finally started buying?

I'd consider DGB still being up as the price will fluctuate a lot short term after the meteoric rise.
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October 17, 2015, 12:01:18 PM
 #9917

Interesting view: https://i.imgur.com/EeIKlHA.png

Everything down except monero. Any speculations why?

0.9 is really right around the corner and big pockets see a highly portable (read - can work on many platforms) Monero as really really good?

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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October 17, 2015, 01:03:00 PM
 #9918

From the "FreeBazaar - OpenBazaar with Monero" thread.

So with the alledged OpenBazaar release coming up, it would be a good time to provide us with your curren thought regarding the project. If you are not going forward with it, I suggest you just donate the remaining funds to the dev fund or ask your donators what they would want you to do with it.

Yes, they will be ready soon, and during current work OB-devs changed a lot. What breaks my code permanently.
Therefore I'll release a new fork with actually synchronized status in some days after official release.

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October 17, 2015, 05:23:15 PM
 #9919

So I was thinking, I don't really need to be putting my signature campaign for bitcoin companies... even though it helps out with getting some extra free xmr, I want to be able to recruit more people to monero on this forum.  So, what is the most visually appealing signature ad I can have as just a member to get people excited about monero?  I feel that there should be a really good visually appealing ad someone should create (because I sure can't) for every ranking to get people excited and come to this thread or the ANN thread.
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October 17, 2015, 05:29:04 PM
 #9920

So how about this bull rush for both bitcoin and monero, and the fact that everybody else is tanking it pretty hard?? From what my ticker says on my phone, Monero's up a solid 8% ... nicely done. Any particular reason why xmr isn't tanking it down the tubes along with it's other cryptonote siblings?

What do you mean?  It tanked along with most alts but bounced back a bit yesterday.

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