[XMR] Monero Speculation

[papa_lazzarou]

Your assuming he is correct.

I've already reached out to him on other threads and via PM. So far he hasn't been even remotely clear on what he has or how much he's willing to sell it for, so there's no way for us to know if it's something worth crowdfunding.

He claims no one in the XMR community is interested in what he has, but he needs to meet us somewhere in the middle. I personally think he has no interest in ever selling his information, which is why he's so reluctant to name a price.

I think he is full of shit.

Agreed. You guys give him waaay too much credit.

O AnnoyMint, where are thou?

[wpalczynski]

He's stated (without going into much detail) to have solutions to mining centralization, instant transactions, scalability, anonymity, etc. To quote:

Add to that Global warming, world hunger and the energy crisis.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I think he is full of shit.

It's certainly possible. However, I think his words are at least partially affecting the trading price (and it's not the first time as papa_lazzarou pointed out). The idea that something better (imaginary or not) lingers on the horizon always seems to be Monero's greatest enemy.

[wpalczynski]

I think he is full of shit.

It's certainly possible. However, I think his words are at least partially affecting the trading price (and it's not the first time as papa_lazzarou pointed out). The idea that something better (imaginary or not) lingers on the horizon always seems to be Monero's greatest enemy.

And that is only our fault for indulging his cryptic writings in his more lucid moments where he sort of sounds like he knows what he is talking about.  For the last year its been nothing but talk from him.  We gotta call a spade a spade, he might be articulate but he never substantiates anything and when questioned and called out on his BS  he throws a tantrum or hissy fit and threatens legal action.

[papa_lazzarou]

I think he is full of shit.

It's certainly possible. However, I think his words are at least partially affecting the trading price (and it's not the first time as papa_lazzarou pointed out). The idea that something better (imaginary or not) lingers on the horizon always seems to be Monero's greatest enemy.

I see your point. Let him put his work where his mouth is.

[wpalczynski]

I think he is full of shit.

It's certainly possible. However, I think his words are at least partially affecting the trading price (and it's not the first time as papa_lazzarou pointed out). The idea that something better (imaginary or not) lingers on the horizon always seems to be Monero's greatest enemy.

I see your point. Let him put his work where his mouth is.

And dont forget that a lot of his writing about economy etc. are not his musings but rather copy and paste from Armstrongs blog.

[GingerAle]

I think he is full of shit.

It's certainly possible. However, I think his words are at least partially affecting the trading price (and it's not the first time as papa_lazzarou pointed out). The idea that something better (imaginary or not) lingers on the horizon always seems to be Monero's greatest enemy.

Perhaps greatest enemy, but I would also argue a false enemy. Even if something better does exist, it would have to come onto the scene with a similar level of infrastructure to compete with Monero. Hell, monero is better than bitcoin, but we're still contending with it's five year lead and subsequent infrastructure and perceived momentum. Thus, it is important for development to get a little gas thrown on the fire, thus why more community funded developers would be great. Our poor cow is working so hard.

[GreekBitcoin]

[whap]

Perhaps greatest enemy, but I would also argue a false enemy. Even if something better does exist, it would have to come onto the scene with a similar level of infrastructure to compete with Monero. Hell, monero is better than bitcoin, but we're still contending with it's five year lead and subsequent infrastructure and perceived momentum. Thus, it is important for development to get a little gas thrown on the fire, thus why more community funded developers would be great. Our poor cow is working so hard.

I cannot imagine a better way to spend my moneroni.

[rangedriver]

P.S. my health is not going well. I am pretty much giving on trying any therapies (because nothing works and I've tried "everything") until and if ever I can afford the best research specialists doing diagnostics on me. So don't expect too much from me. But I am still trying. I did run 9 kilometers in the past 2 days but today was a total Chronic Fatigue day bed ridden.

That was kinda stupid. If you're suffering from any type of chronic fatigue you definitely don't want to be doing anaerobic exercise - you'll be burning precious amounts of protein and the physiological response will leave you exhausted for days. Plus, all the while you're ill, your anaerobic threshold is likely to be much lower than the standard model. So while daily exercise is critical, anything over ~110bpm is a no-no, at least for the first six weeks. Then you can start to build it up.

Have you had an official diagnosis of MS?

As for Monero, I don't see the connection between a supressed price and any speculative alternative system. All alts are down. It's pretty brutal, but the plus side is that as long as prices are this cheap, it's very attractive to new investors and hence the community grows significantly. Whereas something like Dash has a fickle community that enters and vacates with every corresponding market wave, new investors who enter Monero tend to become permanent members of the community irrespective of market dynamics, and that is largely attributed to the extraordinary accumulation of advanced minds that collect here.

[dloghwak]

P.S. my health is not going well. I am pretty much giving on trying any therapies (because nothing works and I've tried "everything") until and if ever I can afford the best research specialists doing diagnostics on me. So don't expect too much from me. But I am still trying. I did run 9 kilometers in the past 2 days but today was a total Chronic Fatigue day bed ridden.

That was kinda stupid. If you're suffering from any type of chronic fatigue you definitely don't want to be doing anaerobic exercise - you'll be burning massive amounts of protein and the physiological response will leave you exhausted for days. Plus, all the while you're ill, your anaerobic threshold is likely to be much lower than the standard model. So while daily exercise is critical, anything over ~110bpm is a no-no, at least for the first six weeks. Then you can start to build it up.

Have you had an official diagnosis of MS? Been tested for Stachybotrys yet? Either way, research cholestyramine.

As for Monero, I don't see the connection between a supressed price and any speculative alternative system. All alts are down. It's pretty brutal, but the plus side is that as long as prices are this cheap, it's very attractive to new investors and hence the community grows significantly. Whereas something like Dash has a fickle community that enters and vacates with every corresponding market wave, new investors who enter Monero tend to become permanent members of the community irrespective of market dynamics, and that is largely attributed to the extraordinary accumulation of advanced minds that collect here.

Would be nice if this thread will not become another anonymint or armstrong discussion / circle jerk.

[rangedriver]

Would be nice if this thread will not become another anonymint or armstrong discussion / circle jerk.

...and that is largely attributed to the extraordinary accumulation of advanced minds that collect here. *

* With exceptions.

[iCEBREAKER]

P.S. my health is not going well. I am pretty much giving on trying any therapies (because nothing works and I've tried "everything") until and if ever I can afford the best research specialists doing diagnostics on me. So don't expect too much from me. But I am still trying. I did run 9 kilometers in the past 2 days but today was a total Chronic Fatigue day bed ridden.

That was kinda stupid. If you're suffering from any type of chronic fatigue you definitely don't want to be doing anaerobic exercise - you'll be burning massive amounts of protein and the physiological response will leave you exhausted for days. Plus, all the while you're ill, your anaerobic threshold is likely to be much lower than the standard model. So while daily exercise is critical, anything over ~110bpm is a no-no, at least for the first six weeks. Then you can start to build it up.

Have you had an official diagnosis of MS? Been tested for Stachybotrys yet? Either way, research cholestyramine.

As for Monero, I don't see the connection between a supressed price and any speculative alternative system. All alts are down. It's pretty brutal, but the plus side is that as long as prices are this cheap, it's very attractive to new investors and hence the community grows significantly. Whereas something like Dash has a fickle community that enters and vacates with every corresponding market wave, new investors who enter Monero tend to become permanent members of the community irrespective of market dynamics, and that is largely attributed to the extraordinary accumulation of advanced minds that collect here.

Would be nice if this thread will not become another anonymint or armstrong discussion / circle jerk.

The more we engage this tar baby, the more we feed his Munchausen Syndrome.

Starved of attention, AM will go away and seek it elsewhere.

[newb4now]

I've already reached out to him on other threads and via PM. So far he hasn't been even remotely clear on what he has or how much he's willing to sell it for, so there's no way for us to know if it's something worth crowdfunding.

He claims no one in the XMR community is interested in what he has, but he needs to meet us somewhere in the middle. I personally think he has no interest in ever selling his information, which is why he's so reluctant to name a price.

Nicely put. In any case, I believe this time it's his turn. Either he wants to reveal what he has (ie: describe in detail what he has managed to solve / created) or we assume he has nothing at all. Simple as that. In any case if he has something usable and worthy from the XMR devteam, I repeat what I wrote in his "ion" thread; I'm willing to donate some of my XMR stash in order to buy his work if he's for real.

Let's see what he decides.

FWIW: I've also sent him a PM and explained a bit how our funding system works. Let's see how it plays out.

A formal funding request is the best way to proceed!

[aminorex]

Why would you want Bernie Sanders to be at the forefront of Monero?

Like all inalienable human rights, privacy knows neither right nor left. 

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Some responses from AnonyMint/TPTB_need_war:

Regarding the posts in this thread, first I need to see if the Monero cryptographer has already solved the design.

And also my anonymity white paper "Zero Knowledge Transactions" is unpublished because it was going to be used first in Ion, and it has had no peer review so it is possible it has an error, but I combed over it numerous times and so I don't think so (but it is possible and that is what peer review is for).

As for price, I haven't thought about it yet and will do. I expended some weeks on that. I assume I am at smooth's caliber (although I think he is more active lately in coding because he is younger and not ill) in terms of my experience and past compensation, thus something on the order of $100-300 per hour. In 2001, I was earning $30,000 per month, so that is roughly $363 per hour as my opportunity cost inflation-adjusted (at a factor 3.63x since 2001 according to Shadowstats.com). Plus you have to consider the opportunity cost of retaining it for exclusivity for "first mover" advantage. It will be interesting to see if Monero's donation funding model can support hiring the developers at the true rate they earn. There is a large difference in compensation between the top paid developers and the junior developers.

As for my health and whether I can still lead Ion, this is in an unanswered question. Although the past 3 years and recent chaotic health since August would tend to concur with macsga's conclusion, a new wrinkle entered the picture last night which also might be quite shocking to macsga. So I just don't know for sure yet. In any case, at the right price, it may make sense to go ahead and give my solution to Monero well before I could ever implement it myself in my own project.

He also goes into a little bit more detail about what he has:

Again if the community wants to see my Zero Knowledge Transactions paper published earlier so that it could be implemented by Monero (and presumably others unless Monero folk want to see it only privately and fund it that way but wouldn't it be better for the community-at-large to see it and get competition rolling on implementing it), then I guess we'd need to make Kickstarter page to meet my minimum funding objective and to state the parameters, i.e. what happens if a flaw is found in my design and w.r.t. if it such a flaw is fixable or not.

Besides integrating rings and homomorphic sums, I also claim to have fixed Compact Confidential Transactions so that it no longer needs a huge (non-existent) elliptic curve in order to prove the hidden committed value is not negative. That requirement for a huge curve (computational speed I think degrades exponentially) was the major problem with using that Compact and superior method.

A benefit for me is that if my research paper is correct after peer review, then more people will trust that I am legit. So there is some motivation for me, but I will not give up exclusivity of "first mover" advantage unless I can be fairly compensated for what I think that exclusivity is worth (factoring in my likelihood of completing my project given my health issue and also factoring in that given enough time eventually someone else may discover the epiphany that lead to my invention).

Note the anonymity feature was not the only planned innovation for Ion (i.e. ion), thus giving up first mover advantage on it would not be the end of Ion.

As as community, ultimately all of us are going to be wealthier if we advance the best technology. Competing altcoins help advance efforts. Because technology is not enough. You need also the synergies of development team, community, and market (and features thereof).

So I say if there is a way to compensate developers and get technology out there, then that is positive for all of us.

EDIT: Here's the link to the "improved but flawed" Compact CT whitepaper, that he claims to fix:
http://voxelsoft.com/dev/cct.pdf

[kennyP]

Some responses from AnonyMint/TPTB_need_war:

Regarding the posts in this thread, first I need to see if the Monero cryptographer has already solved the design.

And also my anonymity white paper "Zero Knowledge Transactions" is unpublished because it was going to be used first in Ion, and it has had no peer review so it is possible it has an error, but I combed over it numerous times and so I don't think so (but it is possible and that is what peer review is for).

As for price, I haven't thought about it yet and will do. I expended some weeks on that. I assume I am at smooth's caliber (although I think he is more active lately in coding because he is younger and not ill) in terms of my experience and past compensation, thus something on the order of $100-300 per hour. In 2001, I was earning $30,000 per month, so that is roughly $363 per hour as my opportunity cost inflation-adjusted (at a factor 3.63x since 2001 according to Shadowstats.com). Plus you have to consider the opportunity cost of retaining it for exclusivity for "first mover" advantage. It will be interesting to see if Monero's donation funding model can support hiring the developers at the true rate they earn. There is a large difference in compensation between the top paid developers and the junior developers.

As for my health and whether I can still lead Ion, this is in an unanswered question. Although the past 3 years and recent chaotic health since August would tend to concur with macsga's conclusion, a new wrinkle entered the picture last night which also might be quite shocking to macsga. So I just don't know for sure yet. In any case, at the right price, it may make sense to go ahead and give my solution to Monero well before I could ever implement it myself in my own project.

He also goes into a little bit more detail about what he has:

Again if the community wants to see my Zero Knowledge Transactions paper published earlier so that it could be implemented by Monero (and presumably others unless Monero folk want to see it only privately and fund it that way but wouldn't it be better for the community-at-large to see it and get competition rolling on implementing it), then I guess we'd need to make Kickstarter page to meet my minimum funding objective and to state the parameters, i.e. what happens if a flaw is found in my design and w.r.t. if it such a flaw is fixable or not.

Besides integrating rings and homomorphic sums, I also claim to have fixed Compact Confidential Transactions so that it no longer needs a huge (non-existent) elliptic curve in order to prove the hidden committed value is not negative. That requirement for a huge curve (computational speed I think degrades exponentially) was the major problem with using that Compact and superior method.

A benefit for me is that if my research paper is correct after peer review, then more people will trust that I am legit. So there is some motivation for me, but I will not give up exclusivity of "first mover" advantage unless I can be fairly compensated for what I think that exclusivity is worth (factoring in my likelihood of completing my project given my health issue and also factoring in that given enough time eventually someone else may discover the epiphany that lead to my invention).

Note the anonymity feature was not the only planned innovation for Ion (i.e. ion), thus giving up first mover advantage on it would not be the end of Ion.

As as community, ultimately all of us are going to be wealthier if we advance the best technology. Competing altcoins help advance efforts. Because technology is not enough. You need also the synergies of development team, community, and market (and features thereof).

So I say if there is a way to compensate developers and get technology out there, then that is positive for all of us.

EDIT: Here's the link to the "improved but flawed" Compact CT whitepaper, that he claims to fix:
http://voxelsoft.com/dev/cct.pdf

My assessment, anonymint is a bat-shit brilliant guy, and if he was inside the XMR tent pissing out (on other coins) I'm speculating it would be very bullish for monero, and probably good for anonymint's health too - win:win!

[americanpegasus]

Why would you want Bernie Sanders to be at the forefront of Monero? Bernie isn't at all the poster child for this, because it would be against the Feds and private banks, which I would believe, that he is good with... Plus he's socialist, I thought the majority of XMR folks here were libertarians... spying and analysing your data is going to be his specialty.

 
  
Sorry, one last semi-off-topic political post since I just found this clip.  There was some discussion two pages ago about how Bernie would be bad for crypto (and Monero) and I disagreed.  I gave a link that showed he is staunchly against NSA spying, and I recently found this clip where he tears into Wall Street and the banks for abusing the money creation system:

https://youtu.be/WeZI3lhnOKg
  
I doubly stand by my statement that out of any possible candidate, Bernie would be *by far* the friendliest President for cryptocurrency.  Vote however you like, but it's important food for thought.  We will need the kind of people in power that can ease Monero's rise to dominance.
  

[Bagatell]

Is Sanders still getting economic advice from Krugman?

[elrippo]

Why would you want Bernie Sanders to be at the forefront of Monero? Bernie isn't at all the poster child for this, because it would be against the Feds and private banks, which I would believe, that he is good with... Plus he's socialist, I thought the majority of XMR folks here were libertarians... spying and analysing your data is going to be his specialty.

 
  
Sorry, one last semi-off-topic political post since I just found this clip.  There was some discussion two pages ago about how Bernie would be bad for crypto (and Monero) and I disagreed.  I gave a link that showed he is staunchly against NSA spying, and I recently found this clip where he tears into Wall Street and the banks for abusing the money creation system:

https://youtu.be/WeZI3lhnOKg
  
I doubly stand by my statement that out of any possible candidate, Bernie would be *by far* the friendliest President for cryptocurrency.  Vote however you like, but it's important food for thought.  We will need the kind of people in power that can ease Monero's rise to dominance.
  

Well, talking and representing is one thing, doing what you promised is the other guys  
If you think that one politician will do what he promised in a presidential position, is like believing that pills will build muscles without lifting a single weight.
In the EU i remember the election from Mr. Nobel Peace Price "Black Bush" Obama Puppet, who promised to shut down Guantanamo, now he is one of the biggest Warleaders and Warmakers in the whole world.
90% of US economy is owned by less then 2% of US citizens, so you hopefully do not believe that any President will change this. The last one who tried this was killed on 22.11.1963.

Sanders is a nice guy and tries to build a bridge to the EU, calling out Swedens, Denmarks and Norways Economy for example, but the link is quite broken to the non existence of a mondial warfare of the mentioned countries.

US economy is build on armory, meat and corn, US police kills more people than the EU has lost in wars the last decade. So do you believe that one small president in name Sanders will be able to turn the county 180° around to be peaceful, caring and independent from other countries and states 

Well, this will stay a soggy dream in your mind americanpegasus