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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007815 times)
plasmoske
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August 19, 2013, 01:45:55 PM
 #6401

Anyone here can make any assertions they want.

End of the day, it's up to you to do your own research.

I could be a shill for you know. People just need to research and read everything, good and bad.
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Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 01:48:25 PM
 #6402

KnC have not chosen to sell to businesses to defraud a forum and lull it's members into a false sense of security with promised refund. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the VAT complications pertaining to individual EU countries max allowance.
Fair enough. All I'm saying is you really shouldn't be making all these assertations how "pretty sure" you are about this and that and how you are "pretty sure" people are protected and safe. This behaviour will "lull it's members into a false sense of security".

I'm not, I slipped up then forgetting to mention this applies to the UK, but then I'm here, and have been looking at the stuff until I'm giddy and foolishly assumed everyone here is from the UK buying from Swedes for a moment.

In any case check your own country's consumer/business laws, check the companies consumer/business laws, read the terms and conditions you have agreed to, have faith in the fact KnC aren't out to overtly deceive, and that in the UK unless an exemption clause exists in the terms and conditions agreed to by yourself to negate your consumer protection, you should be gravy. Wink

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plasmoske
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August 19, 2013, 01:50:03 PM
 #6403

And NoDisco you still haven't clarified exactly what high end components you're expecting.
Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 01:50:36 PM
 #6404

KnC have not chosen to sell to businesses to defraud a forum and lull it's members into a false sense of security with promised refund. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the VAT complications pertaining to individual EU countries max allowance.
Fair enough. All I'm saying is you really shouldn't be making all these assertations how "pretty sure" you are about this and that and how you are "pretty sure" people are protected and safe. This behaviour will "lull it's members into a false sense of security" (and then follow the assertation with a "with a do your own research" disclaimer).

And the way you edit your posts - the quote above has gone from:
and lull it's members into a false sense of security with promised refund.
to
and lull it's members into a false sense of security with any illusion of a promised refund.
That's a fairly significant change of meaning?

Nah purely one read better. There is no illusion, but I was paraphrasing as the above comments suggest the opposite to be the case.

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Ytterbium
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August 19, 2013, 01:50:56 PM
 #6405

The heatsinks aren't that cheap, there like $30-40, and four of them would be $120-160. They're rated at 320W cooling power.

"Professional" does not mean high-grade/pointlessly expensive stuff, a lot of the time it means it gets the job done without much concern for aesthetics. It should last a long time and be reliable, but that doesn't mean it will look nice.

The external PSU is weird though.

hellfrozenow
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August 19, 2013, 01:54:28 PM
 #6406

The external PSU is weird though.

It is. Any reason they cant make the case a bit bigger  Huh
NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
 #6407

The heatsinks aren't that cheap, there like $30-40, and four of them would be $120-160. They're rated at 320W cooling power.

"Professional" does not mean high-grade/pointlessly expensive stuff, a lot of the time it means it gets the job done without much concern for aesthetics. It should last a long time and be reliable, but that doesn't mean it will look nice.
A $30 cooler is not over-delivering, which seems to be the knc mantra.

What is some guy announces on the fourm "Hey, I've figured out some way to make a jupiter hash at 600! More heat - you'll need to upgrade those arctic heatsinks though". Then 1000's of miners tampered with their box and no longer have a warranty Roll Eyes Good for knc, bad for everyone else.

I'm just annoyed they are cheaping out on components, with no eye to the future.
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August 19, 2013, 01:58:18 PM
 #6408

And NoDisco you still haven't clarified exactly what high end components you're expecting.

Delta cooling http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/dcfans_main.asp
KS
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August 19, 2013, 01:58:26 PM
 #6409

How exactly would treating you as a business customer void you from obtaining a refund, unless there are specific exclusion clauses in their T&Cs preventing you?
You do realise you are quoting UK specific laws to a forum with worldwide membership? (as you say this was taken from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_problems_with_business_to_business_services_e/consumer_protection_for_businesses.htm)

Yes, yes I do, I've mentioned it many times, followed by encouraging you to follow through and do your own research.

KnC have not chosen to sell to businesses to defraud a forum and lull it's members into a false sense of security with any illusion of a promised refund. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the VAT complications pertaining to individual EU countries max allowance. Ask your CCard issuing bank if they have issues with you purchasing a product intent for business to business sale, and whether it negates any consumer protection they may have.

KNCMINER is shaving 1 year warranty off of your 2 years consumer warranty by using the "for business use" line.

That's an exclusion clause staring you right in the face but you can't be bugged to see or admit it and rather spread BS about KS (haha). That's a rather pathetic way of spending your time while you could, in effect, talk to a real lawyer and set things straight, at least for the UK.

You are right about your assumption that businesses have some consumer rights, as in they should get what they pay for and "it" should work satisfactorily. Sadly, you're mostly wrong about the rest but don't know enough to realize it and certainly don't have the experience in court to back up your own (mis)information.

You're a KNCMINER fanboy, good for you, you tell people to double check things, make up their own mind, not overspend, all good. But stop giving legal advice when you don't know the first thing about it.

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Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 02:00:34 PM
 #6410

The heatsinks aren't that cheap, there like $30-40, and four of them would be $120-160. They're rated at 320W cooling power.

"Professional" does not mean high-grade/pointlessly expensive stuff, a lot of the time it means it gets the job done without much concern for aesthetics. It should last a long time and be reliable, but that doesn't mean it will look nice.
A $30 cooler is not over-delivering, which seems to be the knc mantra.

What is some guy announces on the fourm "Hey, I've figured out some way to make a jupiter hash at 600! More heat - you'll need to upgrade those arctic heatsinks though". Then 1000's of miners tampered with their box and no longer have a warranty Roll Eyes

No but providing a cooling solution in excess of the products needs is. They already stated at the openday their cooling option is overkill. Arctic are a solid brand. This isn't about pissing monies up the wall, they are not profiteering. It's about reclaiming NRE, whilst remaining competitive.

Thinking out loud, if their power requirements are advantageous, one heavy duty external PSU may power more than one device, saving cash.

Certainly we know customs would be an issue with internal PSUs, which is why BFL went that route, and Bitsyncom had to. ASICminer never had to concern themselves with this. Aside from anything else, larger casing = large dimensions & greater weight = more expensive shipping fees.

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NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 02:01:59 PM
 #6411

But stop giving legal advice when you don't know the first thing about it.
+1

P.S. KS, if you have any links or info about 2 year consumer rights being trimmed to 1 for businesses, pm me. Thanks
merv77
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August 19, 2013, 02:02:54 PM
 #6412

Just got off the phone with Sam - it is a pleasure to talk to him and gives answers to all questions, so if you have any questions I suggest you call him Smiley

I asked him if you could install a water cooling kit and he said that these ASIC chips are bigger in size, thus the market solutions, which are for CPU cooling would probably not work.
Which made me wonder how they've used the Arctic A30 cooler, when it is for CPU die sizes too.
But he said there is absolutely no problem to change the fans if you want less noise or higher performance.

Also I wasn't sure how noisy the miners are, thinking they will produce more noise, compared to a GPU miner, but I was totally wrong - he said it would be much quieter and it makes sense as GPU fans are much smaller and spin much faster (4000rpms for example) So the bigger the fan the quieter it is Smiley
I can't remember where (in news letter or on forum) but I think KnC had mentioned exactly what type of heat sink/cooler (off the shelf) they were going to use and it was to be modified.
I'm sure it will be a CPU cooler with modifications to suit their chip.
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August 19, 2013, 02:04:59 PM
 #6413

And NoDisco you still haven't clarified exactly what high end components you're expecting.

Delta cooling http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/dcfans_main.asp

The fans on those heatsinks are modular.  You can replace them with deltas if you want.

plasmoske
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August 19, 2013, 02:05:33 PM
 #6414

Delta cooling? Is that what you're expecting? Too exotic and a bit overkill don't you think?
NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 02:05:39 PM
 #6415

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.
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August 19, 2013, 02:07:00 PM
 #6416

Delta cooling? Is that what you're expecting? Too exotic and a bit overkill don't you think?

That's what Avalon shipped with. Not the monster 5.2k RPM, 62 decibel ones, though.

But anyway, if you want you can buy them and slap them into the heatsinks, they should take any 120mm fan.

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August 19, 2013, 02:08:25 PM
 #6417

But stop giving legal advice when you don't know the first thing about it.
+1

P.S. KS, if you have any links or info about 2 year consumer rights being trimmed to 1 for businesses, pm me. Thanks

He doesn't have a scooby, he was the one harping on about business to business negating consumer rights for ages without knowing anything about what he was talking about, purely to troll, and I'm the one that did the legwork and looked it up, to shut him up. What sodding assumptions?! I added the link from the official UK citizen' advice beaureau where I pulled the quote from, direct from the proverbial horses mouth.

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Xialla
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August 19, 2013, 02:08:48 PM
 #6418

Delta cooling? Is that what you're expecting? Too exotic and a bit overkill don't you think?

you asked me here for professional cooling solution. arctic is SOHO for PC builders, Delta is enterprise for datacenters. and please stop trolling, it becomes really annoying.
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August 19, 2013, 02:11:38 PM
 #6419

Again I will ask. What is "high end components"?

I would imagine he means datacenter grade, just take a look at the chassis for an $8K server.  Lets start with the easy stuff.  First they all have internal power supplies and are 19" wide so they will fit in a datacenter rack without the need for shelves. 

Normally CPUs and GPUs are just passive (fanless) heatsinks which use the case air flow to cool them.  The "case" fans provide the forced air across all components using multiple high CFM (noisy) fans.  Nobody uses "gamer brand" gear.* Air flow is an optimal front to back design (cold aisle to hot aisle).  Cooling is forced flow across the entire width of the chassis (multiple fans in a "line") for simplicity and reliability. On higher end servers cooling is redundant, two fans stacked together to prevent overheat in a fan failure.  Redundant power supplies are also common for the same reason.

I understand time is critical but what happens when your fan or PSU dies in the datacenter?  Ask anyone with colocated servers, "remote hands" time is expensive and so is downtime.  There is a reason why $8K servers are built this way and lets face it a $8K mining rig is pretty much an expensive mission critical server.  

Note I am not saying KNC should make "professional grade" rigs at this time, it is more a thought exercise. Come on people you should be enthusiasts.  Don't you ever just brainstorm about how things can be done better?  I mean Satoshi did and that is why we have Bitcoin.  Still it shouldn't be taken as a bash on KNC, it has taken the server industry a couple decades to come up with optimal configurations.  It just is to show what people in the IT hardware world would consider "professional grade" today.  To their credit KNC has already designed a better cooling system them BFL.  The mere fact that their heatsinks and fans all face the same direction is a significant improvement.  Everytime I look at a photo of a BFL minirig I just cringe.  The IT geek in me wants to rip out all those stupid fans and do it right. Smiley




This goes beyond KNC but most "consumer" branded cooling gear is just garbage for gamers to waste money on.  The CFM ratings tend to be inflated and they are often more expensive then "professional grade" equipment.  Delta and the like is the real deal.  Boring, black, ugly, and very effective.
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August 19, 2013, 02:21:42 PM
 #6420

I still don't like how the front 2 heatsinks in a jupiter blow their exhaust into the inlets of the rear 2 heatsinks. Suboptimal. Should be just linear as in D&Ts example.

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