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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006560 times)
sbfree
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August 23, 2013, 05:56:55 AM
 #6901

ps. I am on the west coast, which I believe you are too Anenome5, and if you notice, the time stamp on the forum is not PST TIME.
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August 23, 2013, 05:57:49 AM
 #6902

It amazes me that people are talking about a fast motorcycle ride instead of about the KNCminer PCB article on their site which has been up for over a day now.



Everyone already did that yesterday.  The conversation moved on to fast delivery...
dhenson
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August 23, 2013, 06:00:22 AM
 #6903

Everyone is assuming mid Sept.  I'm assuming early Sept.

Forever the optimist, don't let me down!
plasmoske
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August 23, 2013, 06:03:59 AM
 #6904

I'm going to assume late Sept.

But then again that's just the pessimist in me coming out.
2112
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August 23, 2013, 06:58:49 AM
 #6905

Wouldn't it be possible to use a software-programmable voltage system that could 'record' somehow if any settings were altered? Like a tiny EEPROM chip that records the time and date of manual voltage settings until it runs out of space?
Possible? Yes. Practical? No.

Intel/AMD have much higher R&D budgets but don't bother voltage-locking their CPUs, they only do clock-multiplier-locking.

Apple Computer could do it for their iMiner using the similar technology that they use to lock their iPads to their proprietary chargers.

Scratch "Apple Computer" and "iMiner". Since this is a thread about a product designed in Scandinavia I should've talked about "Bang & Olufsen" and "BeoMiner". Denmark is closer to Sweden than to California.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
timmmers
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August 23, 2013, 07:21:48 AM
 #6906

A little off topic but I wonder what you make of this someone just posted on another thread? Seems a little too good to be true to me, but if it's genuine ...

http://www.amazon.com/Inverter-installs-minutes-Inverter-Breakthough/dp/B00BSFJMCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377240120&sr=8-1&keywords=solar+panel+plugin

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August 23, 2013, 08:08:10 AM
 #6907

"Now offering same-day global delivery"

http://i.imgur.com/9v1eXki.jpg

Was that Columbia? Smiley

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plasmoske
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August 23, 2013, 08:22:19 AM
 #6908

Nope that's the Atlantis Cool
sickpig
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August 23, 2013, 08:46:23 AM
 #6909

"Now offering same-day global delivery"

http://i.imgur.com/9v1eXki.jpg

Was that Columbia? Smiley

kano sorry for pestering, did they eventually contact you asking for a shipment address? Tongue

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
noodle73
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August 23, 2013, 09:23:02 AM
 #6910

Definitions of ROI aside, when it comes to the question of getting your money back, don't forget that the miners themselves have some intrinsic value too.
Yes, the Genesis block predictions are gloomy, but even on the Nov 1 start date you get pretty close to break even. If after 6 months you say "This hasn't delivered for me" then stick your miner on eBay. As we've seen, someone will always buy it and probably pay too much too. That may well be enough to make all the difference between turning a profit and not. You get away with the shirt still on your back and at worst, you've turned a pile of banknotes into bitcoins without wasting money on third party commission
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August 23, 2013, 09:31:00 AM
 #6911

Cool
GhanaGamboy
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August 23, 2013, 09:32:12 AM
 #6912

Definitions of ROI aside, when it comes to the question of getting your money back, don't forget that the miners themselves have some intrinsic value too.
Yes, the Genesis block predictions are gloomy, but even on the Nov 1 start date you get pretty close to break even. If after 6 months you say "This hasn't delivered for me" then stick your miner on eBay.

The problem is, after 6 months these will likely cost 10x times less (and unused)
KS
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August 23, 2013, 09:59:34 AM
 #6913

IF Day 1 & Day 2 orders are shipping in September
  AND everything else is shipping in October THEN

there are 2 possible scenarios:
1) day1 is Friday 27th, day2 is Monday 30th, so everything beyond day2 is October
2) they ship day1 for ex. on Monday 16th, ship day2 on Monday 23th and rest in October

I remember that they mentioned continuous delivery, not batch based.
So scenario 2 would mean boxes are ready to ship, difficulty increases, but they are not shipping them... oh boy, ppl will freak out and travel to Stockholm knocking on KnC's door to get their pre-paid miners I guess.

This implies from my point of view that scenario 1 is the more likely one.
Then I'm curious to see how ppl will behave when difficulty increases during September, I'd not be surprised if many buyers will cancel orders.

Please point out in case I'm wrong or missing sth.
I asked knc about this, if there was any delay between September and October shipments, this was there response,

Hi,

 

We are aiming to ship every order that has been paid for as soon as it is produced according to the shipping queue. Our first orders are expected to ship in September and we will then continue to ship out the orders working down the shipping queue list.

 

Let us know if you have further questions.

Everyone is assuming mid Sept.  I'm assuming early Sept.

Forever the optimist, don't let me down!

I'm going to assume late Sept.

But then again that's just the pessimist in me coming out.

Given they were so keen on getting at least 500 units sold, I would suppose they've organized for one batch of 500 with "on-hand" supplies while the rest of the orders will be done in a "just-in-time" fashion with continuous ordering of parts.

I don't see why they would not ship their units as soon as they have them on hand either. Shipping units sooner will translate to more (new) sales as the units will have a better chance of breaking even in BTC terms.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
kano
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August 23, 2013, 10:02:33 AM
 #6914

"Now offering same-day global delivery"

http://i.imgur.com/9v1eXki.jpg

Was that Columbia? Smiley

kano sorry for pestering, did they eventually contact you asking for a shipment address? Tongue
Expect an answer of No (which it is at the moment)
That's basically why I posted that (earlier) comment.
Of course if that ever changed I'd say so - but I no longer expect that.

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noodle73
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August 23, 2013, 10:05:22 AM
 #6915

Definitions of ROI aside, when it comes to the question of getting your money back, don't forget that the miners themselves have some intrinsic value too.
Yes, the Genesis block predictions are gloomy, but even on the Nov 1 start date you get pretty close to break even. If after 6 months you say "This hasn't delivered for me" then stick your miner on eBay.

The problem is, after 6 months these will likely cost 10x times less (and unused)

Oh just look at block erupters, people are still paying far too much for those!
People are putting such faith in the Genesis Block calculator. It's like the guys who drive their cars into the middle of a field because "The sat nav says that was where the road went." It's just the coarsest prediction of the future based on the recent past. There are so many moving targets here to potentially throw it off course. A bitcoin price crash, a bitcoin price spike. But we don't worry about that because the page doesn't give us the option to enter a price volatility variable. What about a surprise change in difficulty? These all make the difference between a column of blue numbers and a column of red ones. We just don't know what's going to happen and neither does the Genesis Block calculator. For sure I think profitability is going to be a close run thing. It could go either way and a few days on delivery will make all the difference. But even if luck goes against me and I end up under water, I don't think I'm going to lose more than a few percent of the cost price and flogging the miner at the end will get me back pretty close to even.

It's a ride, it's a risk, I'm in it for the engagement and the throw of the dice.
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August 23, 2013, 10:16:33 AM
 #6916


kano sorry for pestering, did they eventually contact you asking for a shipment address? Tongue
Expect an answer of No (which it is at the moment)
That's basically why I posted that comment.
Of course if that ever changed I'd say so - but I no longer expect that.

many thanks for the update.

at this point I'm quite worried.

I'm quite sure they will make cgminer work with their machines (they already said that the mockup using the altera is already working with cgminer, if memory serves).

What it seems strange to me is that I was expecting a different behaviour from KnC, something like sending you an email saying: "sorry for the false alarm
we have changed our mind, we don't need your service anymore, blah blah...", just saying.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
BigLad
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August 23, 2013, 10:20:43 AM
 #6917

I've just found out that seemingly they are going to use cgminer and they will ship pre-configured (with Pool, Worker ID etc) so that the buyer only has to plug it in and turn it on.  These settings can be changed via a web interface but SSH to the underlying linux can be done but may have support implications!
eve
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August 23, 2013, 10:36:11 AM
 #6918


kano sorry for pestering, did they eventually contact you asking for a shipment address? Tongue
Expect an answer of No (which it is at the moment)
That's basically why I posted that comment.
Of course if that ever changed I'd say so - but I no longer expect that.

many thanks for the update.

at this point I'm quite worried.

I'm quite sure they will make cgminer work with their machines (they already said that the mockup using the altera is already working with cgminer, if memory serves).

What it seems strange to me is that I was expecting a different behaviour from KnC, something like sending you an email saying: "sorry for the false alarm
we have changed our mind, we don't need your service anymore, blah blah...", just saying.


We should ALL be worry except Knc, because they already has our money. With No Updates by this week we should really be concern as to where the heck is the 28nm Chips?

Where are the freaking chip.  Grin  Should we Go for Refund.?

A Chicken without a head would go no where, the chip is the brain for our bitcoin miner.
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August 23, 2013, 10:37:38 AM
 #6919

...
There are so many moving targets here to potentially throw it off course. A bitcoin price crash,

You'll be mining the same number of bitcoins, only they'll be worth less.  That's a fail.

Quote
a bitcoin price spike.

Better, but unless you mine more bitcoins than you would have, had if you bought bitcoins directly instead of buying a miner?  Another fail.

Quote
But we don't worry about that because the page doesn't give us the option to enter a price volatility variable.

That's because it is irrelevant.  Simply assume that you have bought bitcoin instead of the miner, and hold that bitcoin.  Your bitcoin will be on the same roller coaster, so you can factor out the fluctuating price.

Quote
What about a surprise change in difficulty?

If you mean difficulty going up, that's no surprise.  All the preorders & all the chips hitting the market is a one-way sign for difficulty.  The "S" in ASIC stands for specific, these babies can't be turned into gaming rigs -- they could only be mined or thrown out.  Unlike GPUs and CPUs before them, they can't do anything else.

Quote
These all make the difference between a column of blue numbers and a column of red ones. We just don't know what's going to happen and neither does the Genesis Block calculator.

True enough, we can't say the sun will rise tomorrow & be 100% certain.  Though it's reasonable to bank on it, and not the unlikely chance that The Spaghetti Monster will decide to shut down the universe.

Quote
For sure I think profitability is going to be a close run thing. It could go either way and a few days on delivery will make all the difference. But even if luck goes against me and I end up under water, I don't think I'm going to lose more than a few percent of the cost price and flogging the miner at the end will get me back pretty close to even.

"Flogging the miner at the end" is irrelevant.  There isn't much difference between making a nickel a month & 6 cents a month.  See difficulty curve for explanation.

Quote
It's a ride, it's a risk, I'm in it for the engagement and the throw of the dice.

If it's fun, it's fun.  Can't argue with that.
Xialla
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August 23, 2013, 10:39:01 AM
 #6920

Where are the freaking chip.  Grin  Should we Go for Refund.?

of course, you can ask for refund anytime before day of shipment.
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