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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3045502 times)
kingcoin
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August 20, 2013, 10:54:42 PM
 #6621

Wow. This thread is growing as we're getting closer to the release date. It will probably explode by the time we get to September.


Is the word may in your sentence above an indication of that you think this is something they should do, or that you have heard somewhere that they might supply vectors and run test on the tester?

I have no idea what they're actually going to do. I assume they know what they're doing.

I would also think you'd still need to pay for the whole wafer space even if your chip doesn't work, right? So getting rid of defective chips wouldn't actually save them $200, right? I figured it would only save them the cost of the PCB, and possibly add more time to their schedule.

You pay for the devices which pass your test on the tester. Bad yield is a problem of the ASIC vendor, not the their clients. Their yield is usually a well kept secret and not disclosed to others. You can also do binning as I've mentioned previously. The output of the test vectors can identify which part (e.g. which hashing core) has a defect.

A miner ASIC is not different from any other digital ASIC with some redundant logic like I've given examples of previously. Like many other designs it contains logic to generate a lot of coverage internally, uncovered nets can be covered by inserting logic. The output of the test vectors can tell you which hashing core has fault (just like with a multicore CPU as I mentioned earlier). Also this has noting to do with JTAG and nothing to do with functional verification or functional testing. It's to test the fabrication of the ASIC device itself.
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August 21, 2013, 12:37:01 AM
 #6622


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.

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August 21, 2013, 12:43:09 AM
 #6623


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.


Where is the proof of that 900mm2 claim?

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August 21, 2013, 12:43:17 AM
 #6624

It's the size of a toast


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.



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August 21, 2013, 12:45:51 AM
 #6625


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.


Where is the proof of that 900mm2 claim?



from KNC's diagram showing the chip has a 41.2mm x 41.2mm lid. Hashfast made a estimation of 30mm x 30mm size die.

erk
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August 21, 2013, 12:49:11 AM
 #6626


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.


Where is the proof of that 900mm2 claim?



from KNC's diagram showing the chip has a 41.2mm x 41.2mm lid. Hashfast made a estimation of 30mm x 30mm size die.


Just like I thought, you have no actual facts about the die size, you are going on guesses from a competitor. Nothing to see here.....move along.
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August 21, 2013, 12:52:01 AM
 #6627

KNC has said they are huge multiple times
Toasts i tell you

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August 21, 2013, 01:00:41 AM
 #6628


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.


Where is the proof of that 900mm2 claim?



from KNC's diagram showing the chip has a 41.2mm x 41.2mm lid. Hashfast made a estimation of 30mm x 30mm size die.


Just like I thought, you have no actual facts about the die size, you are going on guesses from a competitor. Nothing to see here.....move along.

Then why let people guess? Unless KnC considers ASIC size is as secretive as penis size.
Hashfast said that their ASIC size is 18x18mm = 324mm^2.

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August 21, 2013, 01:08:04 AM
 #6629

I'm a little lost: have KnC demonstrated working prototypes? Proof of design/chip production? Anything other than a case rendering and website for preorders? At the moment, seems as though they have less credibility than BFL - at least they've shipped something.
The case is not rendered.

Who runs KNC has a million times more credibility than BFL's people, and Orsoc has shipped plenty.

Next!

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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August 21, 2013, 01:10:53 AM
 #6630

XBT is the unofficial ISO currency code for Bitcoins.
Yeah, I hate that designation. ISO codes don't control me! BTC it is and shall always be >:

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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August 21, 2013, 01:20:12 AM
 #6631

They consider us a commodity, kinda flaterring. But not a currency Undecided

XBT is the unofficial ISO currency code for Bitcoins.
Yeah, I hate that designation. ISO codes don't control me! BTC it is and shall always be >:

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DPoS
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August 21, 2013, 03:11:15 AM
 #6632

They consider us a commodity, kinda flaterring. But not a currency Undecided

XBT is the unofficial ISO currency code for Bitcoins.
Yeah, I hate that designation. ISO codes don't control me! BTC it is and shall always be >:

Barter Barter!!!

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
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August 21, 2013, 03:22:51 AM
 #6633

Anyone else starting to get super pumped for September to roll around?

hasher87
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August 21, 2013, 04:01:52 AM
 #6634

Anyone else starting to get super pumped for September to roll around?


judging with the next estimation difficulty of 66m, 1ghash could get you 0.0075 per day

still good enough
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August 21, 2013, 05:36:52 AM
Last edit: August 21, 2013, 06:17:03 AM by prodigits7
 #6635

Just wanted to say that I'm flying to Sweden next week to meet with the team over there. Will keep you guys posted.
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August 21, 2013, 05:49:46 AM
 #6636

Just wanted to say that I'm flying to Sweden next month to meet with the team over there. Will keep you guys posted.

Hopefully by then we won't need to be posted.
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August 21, 2013, 05:52:47 AM
 #6637

Just wanted to say that I'm flying to Sweden next month to meet with the team over there. Will keep you guys posted.
By then there will only be 500+ pages of trolling, opinions, accusations, analogies, and completely false statements and explanations made by those least qualified to make them.
Probably best to start a new thread IMHO. Any real information is greatly appreciated.

BTCitcointalk 1%ers manipulate the currency and deceive its user community.
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August 21, 2013, 07:03:20 AM
 #6638

Just wanted to say that I'm flying to Sweden next month to meet with the team over there. Will keep you guys posted.
By then there will only be 500+ pages of trolling, opinions, accusations, analogies, and completely false statements and explanations made by those least qualified to make them.
Probably best to start a new thread IMHO. Any real information is greatly appreciated.

+1
jmevz
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August 21, 2013, 07:27:18 AM
 #6639

This thread is beginning to suck, a lot like Christmas...

C'mon September, and then October!

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August 21, 2013, 08:11:22 AM
 #6640


KNC chip die size at 900mm2?!!!

There are some numbers for comparison:

Nvidia's mammoth Geforce Titan GK110 chip size is at 550mm2, AMD's flagship Radeon 7970 Tahiti chip size is at 350mm2.

There is something wrong.


Where is the proof of that 900mm2 claim?



from KNC's diagram showing the chip has a 41.2mm x 41.2mm lid. Hashfast made a estimation of 30mm x 30mm size die.


Just like I thought, you have no actual facts about the die size, you are going on guesses from a competitor. Nothing to see here.....move along.

Then why let people guess? Unless KnC considers ASIC size is as secretive as penis size.
Hashfast said that their ASIC size is 18x18mm = 324mm^2.



Amy’s estimation of the KnC die size was very unprofessional. There is no imperative relation between the size of the flip-chip package and the actual die size.

KnC has 192 unrolled hash cores, probably running at about 520 MHz to realize 100 GH/s in sum. To take advantage of the technology scaling the area of such a core should be around 0.5 mm2, which results in a KnC die size of about 100 mm2. If you multiply this by 4 there would be finally no big difference to a Hashfast chip. Which would not surprise me, because in the 28nm league only professionals play, who know how to use the full potential of this technology node.

900 mm2 are absolute ridiculous. With so much area one could realize 192 unrolled hash cores in 65nm!

I also understand that KnC keeps the real die size secret, because this could be used to calculate their marginal costs, which would be very usefull to know in the upcoming price war. But anyway, thanks Amy for the Hashfast strip! Wink
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