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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006521 times)
plasmoske
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August 19, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
 #6421

Yeah I was assuming you were talking anout them 4k fans.

Still overkill for a machine with a lifetime of about 6 months.

But people keep harping on about datacenter grade parts but don't realise that KNC haven't ever promised anything about "datacenter" grade machine.

People are taking the word "professional" too literately.

P.s a $8k server can't be compared to a $8k knc miner. With the miner, most of the cost goes towards NRE.
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NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 02:22:12 PM
 #6422

but that is what most in the IT world would consider "professional grade" today
+1
And I'm not saying they should have built some eleborate custom case either.

But if the miner were to fall and the PSU was on a separate shelf and didn't, then all the power connectors and connection on the linux board are going to be torn to sh*t. That's not a great design.
DeathAndTaxes
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August 19, 2013, 02:23:18 PM
 #6423

Delta cooling? Is that what you're expecting? Too exotic and a bit overkill don't you think?

Most delta fans (except the highest CFM ones) aren't that expensive they just aren't flashy.  Delta is never going to make colored fans, ones with LEDs on them, or use leet names.  They are boring black fans that spin and have a reputation of high quality.
Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 02:25:41 PM
 #6424

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
Xialla
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August 19, 2013, 02:26:46 PM
 #6425

Yeah I was assuming you were talking anout them 4k fans.

Still overkill for a machine with a lifetime of about 6 months.

But people keep harping on about datacenter grade parts but don't realise that KNC haven't ever promised anything about "datacenter" grade machine.

People are taking the word "professional" too literately.

professional 24/7 machine (and it doesn't matter if it is router, switch, server, tape library or mining rig) = data center grade. (please check, how looks and how is designed professional IT 24/7 equipment, which cost more then 5k dollars)
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August 19, 2013, 02:30:43 PM
 #6426

But if the miner were to fall and the PSU was on a separate shelf and didn't, then all the power connectors and connection on the linux board are going to be torn to sh*t. That's not a great design.

Yeah, I agree it's sub-optimal. I don't know why they didn't add a frame or something for the PSU to be screwed in place on the side of the case.

There's still time to cancel your order and ask for a refund if you're unhappy about it.

NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 02:31:47 PM
 #6427

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.
Well let's just say that America drops a bomb on China (or vice versa) and then mining difficulty goes right down again. Maybe in 14 months my 400GH/s is still a slick piece of machinery. And then the crappy cpu cooler dies and board fries. My consumer device should be under warranty.
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August 19, 2013, 02:32:00 PM
 #6428

Yeah I was assuming you were talking anout them 4k fans.

Still overkill for a machine with a lifetime of about 6 months.

But people keep harping on about datacenter grade parts but don't realise that KNC haven't ever promised anything about "datacenter" grade machine.

People are taking the word "professional" too literately.

professional 24/7 machine (and it doesn't matter if it is router, switch, server, tape library or mining rig) = data center grade. (please check, how looks and how is designed professional IT 24/7 equipment, which cost more then 5k dollars)

I tried to google "Designed professional IT BITCOIN ASIC 24/7 equipment"

It didn't find anything,

You might be on the wrong thread if you are looking for server hardware.

ohh, stupid kid. for you in points:
1:
We are selling professional devices

2: bitcoin mining hardware should be designed for run 24/7

Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 02:34:07 PM
 #6429

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.
Well let's just say that America drops a bomb on China (or vice versa) and then mining difficulty goes right down again. Maybe in 14 months my 400GH/s is still a slick piece of machinery. And then the crappy cpu cooler dies and board fries. My consumer device should be under warranty.

Why? Most manufacturers rarely give you more than a year unless they are forced to. Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 02:34:28 PM
 #6430

But if the miner were to fall and the PSU was on a separate shelf and didn't, then all the power connectors and connection on the linux board are going to be torn to sh*t. That's not a great design.

Yeah, I agree it's sub-optimal. I don't know why they didn't add a frame or something for the PSU to be screwed in place on the side of the case.
+1000. That wouldn't have been so hard would it? PSU's are all pretty much standard size. It would feel a lot more secure for moving etc.
NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 02:42:55 PM
 #6431

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.
Well let's just say that America drops a bomb on China (or vice versa) and then mining difficulty goes right down again. Maybe in 14 months my 400GH/s is still a slick piece of machinery. And then the crappy cpu cooler dies and board fries. My consumer device should be under warranty.

Why? Most manufacturers rarely give you more than a year unless they are forced to. Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate.
Surprised knc don't have a
"add an extra 1 year warranty for only $3000!" option.
 Grin
Ooh ooh, a slight on knc. Dive in and save them bitcoinorama!
Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 02:44:18 PM
 #6432

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.
Well let's just say that America drops a bomb on China (or vice versa) and then mining difficulty goes right down again. Maybe in 14 months my 400GH/s is still a slick piece of machinery. And then the crappy cpu cooler dies and board fries. My consumer device should be under warranty.

Why? Most manufacturers rarely give you more than a year unless they are forced to. Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate.
Surprised knc don't have a
"add an extra 1 year warranty for only $3000!" option.
 Grin
Ooh ooh, a slight on knc. Dive in and save them bitcoinorama!

Ok, I've realised you're just here to troll now. This is a pointless waste of time.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
plasmoske
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August 19, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
 #6433

Why would they even have that option? Not like the machine will be used for more than a year.
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August 19, 2013, 02:50:03 PM
 #6434


<snip>
Note I am not saying KNC should make "professional grade" rigs at this time, it is more a thought exercise. Come on people you should be enthusiasts.  Don't you ever just brainstorm about how things can be done better?  I mean Satoshi did and that is why we have Bitcoin.  Still it shouldn't be taken as a bash on KNC, it has taken the server industry a couple decades to come up with optimal configurations.  It just is to show what people in the IT hardware world would consider "professional grade" today.  To their credit KNC has already designed a better cooling system them BFL.  The mere fact that their heatsinks and fans all face the same direction is a significant improvement.  Everytime I look at a photo of a BFL minirig I just cringe.  The IT geek in me wants to rip out all those stupid fans and do it right. Smiley

This goes beyond KNC but most "consumer" branded cooling gear is just garbage for gamers to waste money on.  The CFM ratings tend to be inflated and they are often more expensive then "professional grade" equipment.  Delta and the like is the real deal.  Boring, black, ugly, and very effective.

+1 - we can provide constructive feedback to KNC without running for the exits and asking for a refund. If anything, I'm a small scale miner with only a few rigs and none of them running in colo (except some hosted with KNC). For my own use, I don't care if the design is ugly and I've got plenty of room to deal with the inefficient use of space that these rigs + external PSUs will create. Hell, I don't care if they bothered with a case at all and I needed to supply my own milk crate. I just realize that I'm not KNC's only customer and that my requirements won't apply to everyone.

As an example, KNC is sponsoring Life on Bitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=273696.0

Do Austin and Becky really want a somewhat fragile miner + PSU setup in their living room? Unfortunately, I think that this design shortcut takes something that could have been consumer & professional grade and turns it into pure enthusiast grade. The wife acceptance factor goes way down and this unit will end up in the garage - that's where mine will be.


Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 02:53:19 PM
 #6435


<snip>
Note I am not saying KNC should make "professional grade" rigs at this time, it is more a thought exercise. Come on people you should be enthusiasts.  Don't you ever just brainstorm about how things can be done better?  I mean Satoshi did and that is why we have Bitcoin.  Still it shouldn't be taken as a bash on KNC, it has taken the server industry a couple decades to come up with optimal configurations.  It just is to show what people in the IT hardware world would consider "professional grade" today.  To their credit KNC has already designed a better cooling system them BFL.  The mere fact that their heatsinks and fans all face the same direction is a significant improvement.  Everytime I look at a photo of a BFL minirig I just cringe.  The IT geek in me wants to rip out all those stupid fans and do it right. Smiley

This goes beyond KNC but most "consumer" branded cooling gear is just garbage for gamers to waste money on.  The CFM ratings tend to be inflated and they are often more expensive then "professional grade" equipment.  Delta and the like is the real deal.  Boring, black, ugly, and very effective.

+1 - we can provide constructive feedback to KNC without running for the exits and asking for a refund. If anything, I'm a small scale miner with only a few rigs and none of them running in colo (except some hosted with KNC). For my own use, I don't care if the design is ugly and I've got plenty of room to deal with the inefficient use of space that these rigs + external PSUs will create. Hell, I don't care if they bothered with a case at all and I needed to supply my own milk crate. I just realize that I'm not KNC's only customer and that my requirements won't apply to everyone.

As an example, KNC is sponsoring Life on Bitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=273696.0

Do Austin and Becky really want a somewhat fragile miner + PSU setup in their living room? Unfortunately, I think that this design shortcut takes something that could have been consumer & professional grade and turns it into pure enthusiast grade. The wife acceptance factor goes way down and this unit will end up in the garage - that's where mine will be.



Well be creative. I plan on building a MAME cabinet around mine. It will be a reverse arcade, where upon I get paid to play! All the time my kit is secure. Wink

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
Cablez
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August 19, 2013, 02:55:21 PM
 #6436

Well be creative. I plan on building a MAME cabinet around mine. It will be a reverse arcade, where upon I get paid to play! All the time my kit is secure. Wink

This is a fabulous idea! I like it. Better patent it now.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
canth
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August 19, 2013, 02:57:41 PM
 #6437


Well be creative. I plan on building a MAME cabinet around mine. It will be a reverse arcade, where upon I get paid to play! All the time my kit is secure. Wink

That's an excellent idea and if you can get approval for a MAME cabinet into the living room, then you sir are winning the domestic battle. The garage and home office are my domains - I had to push to get tower speakers approved in the living room.  Wink

Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 03:02:55 PM
 #6438


Well be creative. I plan on building a MAME cabinet around mine. It will be a reverse arcade, where upon I get paid to play! All the time my kit is secure. Wink

That's an excellent idea and if you can get approval for a MAME cabinet into the living room, then you sir are winning the domestic battle. The garage and home office are my domains - I had to push to get tower speakers approved in the living room.  Wink

I'm not married buddy, but it sounds like you've approached this the wrong way around; should I ever consider such mutual cohabitation, I'll make sure she understands she's welcome to the garage and the home office, but the living room is strictly out of bounds to her say so. The cab stays! Tongue

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
NoDisco
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August 19, 2013, 03:05:42 PM
 #6439

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.
Well let's just say that America drops a bomb on China (or vice versa) and then mining difficulty goes right down again. Maybe in 14 months my 400GH/s is still a slick piece of machinery. And then the crappy cpu cooler dies and board fries. My consumer device should be under warranty.

Why? Most manufacturers rarely give you more than a year unless they are forced to. Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate.
Surprised knc don't have a
"add an extra 1 year warranty for only $3000!" option.
 Grin
Ooh ooh, a slight on knc. Dive in and save them bitcoinorama!

Ok, I've realised you're just here to troll now. This is a pointless waste of time.
My last word to you is this. You, Bitcoinorama, make a lot of statements along the lines:
This is how things are, i.e. this is fact (which people read)
but do your own research (which people ignore, because they are lazy)

So they are left believing the first statement as fact/truth.

I'm pointing that out to you so you can realise, if you don't, that that is what you do.

You have a massive influence over the direction of everything discussed in this thread or any other thread related to knc. You seem to pop up in all of them.

All my questions about components, warranty etc are valid. And you jump all over them, try to dismiss them. You like to dissipate them with no facts, e.g. "Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate." Like most of the things you say, you don't know whether that will or won't happen. But you like to confidently assert you know all the facts, like YOU know the truth for sure.

On "will America drop a bomb on China" (aka doing a bitcoinorama)
Factual assertion: It definitely won't happen.
Disclaimer: Do your own research, read up news media in your own country. Don't take my word for it
Spurious link: http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/12/why-china-and-the-us-probably-wont-go-to-war/
(Spurious link attempts to prove the factual assertion, wiping away the disclaimer. So reader walks away thinking the factual assertion is fact).
Bitcoinorama
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August 19, 2013, 03:09:56 PM
 #6440

Oh shit, you are saying that our miners which effectively have a lifespan of a maximum of 6 months of relevancy only offer a warranty of up to 1 year instead of 2?
1. Says who?
2. You are forgetting - RESALE. People are still eagerly buying 333Mh/s usb miners on ebay today. There will still be a market for a 400GH/s miner in 12 or 15 months, so the warranty should extend that far too.

Please don't order from KnC if their 1 Year warranty is an issue to you.

Order from BFL, they have a lifetime warranty!

Also as far as I'm aware resale often negates warranties. Certainly does with Sony.
Well let's just say that America drops a bomb on China (or vice versa) and then mining difficulty goes right down again. Maybe in 14 months my 400GH/s is still a slick piece of machinery. And then the crappy cpu cooler dies and board fries. My consumer device should be under warranty.

Why? Most manufacturers rarely give you more than a year unless they are forced to. Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate.
Surprised knc don't have a
"add an extra 1 year warranty for only $3000!" option.
 Grin
Ooh ooh, a slight on knc. Dive in and save them bitcoinorama!

Ok, I've realised you're just here to troll now. This is a pointless waste of time.
My last word to you is this. You, Bitcoinorama, make a lot of statements along the lines:
This is how things are, i.e. this is fact (which people read)
but do your own research (which people ignore, because they are lazy)

So they are left believing the first statement as fact/truth.

I'm pointing that out to you so you can realise, if you don't, that that is what you do.

You have a massive influence over the direction of everything discussed in this thread or any other thread related to knc. You seem to pop up in all of them.

All my questions about components, warranty etc are valid. And you jump all over them, try to dismiss them. You like to dissipate them with no facts, e.g. "Fact is US won't be dropping a bomb on China, and if it does, you'll have a hell of a lot more to fear than hashrate." Like most of the things you say, you don't know whether that will or won't happen. But you like to confidently assert you know all the facts, like YOU know the truth for sure.

On "will America drop a bomb on China" (aka doing a bitcoinorama)
Factual assertion: It definitely won't happen.
Disclaimer: Do your own research, read up news media in your own country. Don't take my word for it
Spurious link: http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/12/why-china-and-the-us-probably-wont-go-to-war/
(Spurious link attempts to prove the factual assertion, wiping away the disclaimer. So reader walks away thinking the factual assertion is fact).


What? You proposed the hypothetical bombing, not I. How could I take that as a genuine concern?

Your questions have some validity, I don't deny that. I tried to reason before it boarded on unlikely scenarios.

Seriously, the fastest and most reasonable solution is just to email the guys and then relay their explanation(s) to us all, otherwise we may as well chase tails, as we can only assume why they made particular choices, i'm sure none of which, is as sinister as has been suggested. From my experience and that of others they've welcomed feedback, although it's prob too late to change case design now, but I really see no issue with it. I can't see data-centres rejecting it, as it's been designed fit for that purpose. It's is clearly a workhorse to be made to effectively mine and be produced to possess in the briefest possible time period. It's life cycle, if we're all honest with eachother here is unlikely to last beyond 12 months before everyone will have moved to a latter generation. If people wish to buy a second hand unit, fine, but they will require access to v.cheap electricity for any of the current unit, or those to be realised over the next 4 months units to remain plugged in this time next year. Regardless of BTC price the hashrate will undoubtedly grow to fit a minimal profit/elec cost margin.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
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