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August 21, 2013, 05:04:34 PM |
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So can we establish how big the ASIC chip is from this image? Forgive me if that was answered already  Yes you can estimate it from any component with a known size (Altera Cyclon IV, GE DC power modules, 6 pin Minifit Jr connector, etc). However it isn't necessary they have already indicated the package will be 55mm x 55mm (the lid is 43mm x 43mm).  They have also indicated the BGA layout here, which obviously doesn't correspond with the PCB, so no. |
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 21, 2013, 05:04:57 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2013, 10:25:11 PM by DeathAndTaxes |
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By the way, the same current goes in and out so only 3 pins for 9A = 324W (hope I'm not wrong again) That is correct. 3 12VDC pins @ 9A ea = 324W max. It is the same for the 8 pin PCIe connector as the extra two pins just contain extra grounds. So 6 pin connector = 3 12VDC & 3 ground, 8 pin connector = 3 12VDC & 5 grounds. They extra two grounds are used as a "ground sense" by PCIe devices that is how a GPU "knows" not to power on if you only connect a 6 pin connector to an 8 pin slot. |
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August 21, 2013, 05:08:49 PM |
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...
If you look closely at a ATX PSU you will notice (layouts vary) it is common to have both a 6 pin AND 8 pin connector on the same set of wires in serial. Obviously that means the PSU must be able to deliver at least 75W + 150W = 225W on that set of wires...
What the wires could handle has nothing to do with the amperage the connector could handle. Also, using wattage is misleading, the same connector can handle double the wattage at doubled voltage. You're spreading misinformation. |
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 21, 2013, 05:15:09 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2013, 10:26:37 PM by DeathAndTaxes |
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So can we establish how big the ASIC chip is from this image? Forgive me if that was answered already Yes you can estimate it from any component with a known size (Altera Cyclon IV, GE DC power modules, 6 pin Minifit Jr connector, etc). However it isn't necessary they have already indicated the package will be 55mm x 55mm (the lid is 43mm x 43mm). They have also indicated the BGA layout here, which obviously doesn't correspond with the PCB, so no. Hmm interesting. Well doing a pixel count of devices with known dimensions (power connector, GE DC modules, Cyclone IV) and comparing them to the package area it looks like the package will still be ~55mm square (+/- 2mm because pixel counts aren't exact). So the prior 55mm/43mm spec is probably still being used. Maybe they just lowered the pin count. |
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 21, 2013, 05:17:35 PM
Last edit: August 21, 2013, 05:57:42 PM by DeathAndTaxes |
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What the wires could handle has nothing to do with the amperage the connector could handle. Also, using wattage is misleading, the same connector can handle double the wattage at doubled voltage. You're spreading misinformation.
I never said the wires indicate the amperage the connector can handle. Not sure where you got that from. It is already established the connector can handle more current than is necessary, 324W (27A @ 12VDC). However just because the connector can handle 324W (27A @ 12VDC) doesn't mean you will be able to pull 324W (27A @ 12VDC) unless the PSU can deliver that much power TO the connector. The layout of the PSU connectors matters, it shows what current the PSU can safely deliver on that set of wires. Multiple connectors on a single wire in series indicate that the PSU can deliver at least the combined current required by the ATX/PCIe standard for all those connectors. For two 2 pin connectors that is 300W (25A @ 12VDC). "Sorry" (not really) about using only using watts without specifying voltage but I was pretty sure everyone knows we are talking about 12VDC here. So so nobody remains "confused" I updated that post and this one, making them longer by repeating the voltage over and over. |
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Phoenix1969
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August 21, 2013, 05:17:50 PM |
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Fight Fight Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
This is entertaining, and none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't...I wish everyone would stop being armchair designers... I'm sure they know what their doing... You really think they would overlook wattage on connectors?
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crumbs
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August 21, 2013, 05:24:08 PM |
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Fight Fight Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
This is entertaining, and none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't...I wish everyone would stop being armchair designers... I'm sure they know what their doing... You really think they would overlook wattage on connectors?
Bumping on good news -> good for KNC |
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chaxattack
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August 21, 2013, 05:29:47 PM |
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Fight Fight Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
This is entertaining, and none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't...I wish everyone would stop being armchair designers... I'm sure they know what their doing... You really think they would overlook wattage on connectors?
Bumping on good news -> good for KNC No red flags. |
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 21, 2013, 05:30:17 PM |
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Fight Fight Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
This is entertaining, and none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't... Well it does matter if you want to make sure your PSU will be able to supply that power without waiting till the last minute. You really think they would overlook wattage on connectors? No. That wasn't the point. |
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jelin1984
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August 21, 2013, 05:34:45 PM |
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fight fight
where is the asic chip
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ASIC-K
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Hell?
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August 21, 2013, 05:35:16 PM |
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fight fight
where is the asic chip
please. just stop this. |
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Phoenix1969
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August 21, 2013, 05:36:20 PM |
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Fight Fight Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
This is entertaining, and none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't... Well it does matter if you want to make sure your PSU will be able to supply that power without waiting till the last minute. You really think they would overlook wattage on connectors? No. That wasn't the point. I'm missing the point totally then, because I certainly had all the info I needed to choose power supplies weeks ago |
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Bitcoinorama
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August 21, 2013, 05:44:13 PM |
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Fight Fight Fight FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
This is entertaining, and none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't... Well it does matter if you want to make sure your PSU will be able to supply that power without waiting till the last minute. PSUs!!!  |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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ASIC-K
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August 21, 2013, 05:48:09 PM |
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there is a canadacomputers.com shop down the street. ill be driving down there the day of delivery for a psu. no biggie. lol
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pitchbend
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August 21, 2013, 05:53:50 PM |
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BTW the PCB now has 8 DC/DC modules to meet the 300W+ requirements if necessary, but their design (see image) seemed to have only 4, so 40AMPS @ 0.9V * 4 = 144W, maybe they added the extra modules to have more room, but we may have good news on the power draw area  |
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Phoenix1969
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August 21, 2013, 05:58:52 PM |
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BTW the PCB now has 8 DC/DC modules to meet the 300W+ requirements if necessary, but their design (see image) seemed to have only 4, so 40AMPS @ 0.9V * 4 = 144W, maybe they added the extra modules to have more room, but we may have good news on the power draw area Actually, If you look a little closer, It DOES show 2 dc/dc converters per chip, for a total of 8. lol |
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 21, 2013, 06:01:14 PM |
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The diagram in your post shows two DC supplies per quad for a total of 8 just like the PCB. Still KNC indicated again they don't expect more than 250W nominal. Using DC PSU capable of 320W is smart though as it gives 70W extra of tolerance. A large portion of BFL's delay was their chips used more power than expected and thus they had to redesign the boards, buy new DC PSU, upgrade the cooling, etc.
While nobody wants the chips to come out over power spec, worst case scenario say the KNC chips come in "hot" using 270W instead of 250W. Not a big deal. The board and heatsinks can already handle up to 320W without breaking a sweat. No components need to be changed. Sure 250W is better than 270W but no delays is more important than delays. The over engineering reduces the need for costly delays. Had BFL done that even with all their other problems/lies customers would have gotten their rigs months earlier.
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Meizirkki
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August 21, 2013, 06:03:28 PM |
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none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't.
Kiss my ass. I'm glad when someone takes the time to explain things in detail. Understanding is better than trust. |
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Meizirkki
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August 21, 2013, 06:07:33 PM |
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The over engineering reduces the need for costly delays. Had BFL done that even with all their other problems/lies customers would have gotten their rigs months earlier.
BFL's chips turned out 6 times worse than the estimated ratings. Nobody over engineers that much  |
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Phoenix1969
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August 21, 2013, 06:10:00 PM |
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none of it matters, again, you either trust them, or you don't.
Kiss my ass. I'm glad when someone takes the time to explain things in detail. Understanding is better than trust. Although I'd never "Kiss your ass"(unless you are a beautiful woman), I can see your point.. But my point is simply that too many folks are analyzing stuff they know almost nothing about, then making definitive statements based on assumption & guesses, then spreading it as if it's gospel. Even Hashfast got it wrong in their "Why we're better than KNC" post. See my point? |
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