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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008301 times)
plasmoske
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August 25, 2013, 12:44:54 PM
 #7061

I would love to type up a big post explaining HF's MPP but in bed now and sleeping so can't. Plus anyway, this is a KNC thread not HF. There's actually a HF MPP thread where everyone here who's interested can go there to discuss.

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August 25, 2013, 01:21:18 PM
 #7062

If KnC offers you the chance for more chips, provided they delivered on time but unfortunately difficulty skyrocketed so much you won't ROI, you don't want them?!?
I would like to get them! Better than nothing.

What if the difficulty doesn't go up that much and I still make a profit.  Wouldn't you still want free chips?  Obviously, people like free chips. So, a deal where you buy the unit and you get guaranteed free chips within X amount of time would be even better then an MPP.

However, if you go with KnC you'll likely get your unit much sooner and you can ask for a refund if the difficulty looks like it's going up too much. That's much better then an MPP.

Also, the IceDRILL thing doesn't get the MPP.  Apparently they were going to charge money for it originally, and would have with icedrill:


Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

Sorry, needed a bit of time to compare our notes from the offering then with the current public (Baby Jet) MPP.

1. The premium on the "insurance" was substantial, and was only presented as an option at the highest level of bulk buy, which was well beyond what we calculated the IPO fundraising could achieve in the current competitive, highly-saturated mining investment market.
2. While it makes sense for a smaller mining operation to "buy into" the MPP deal by ordering from batch 1, we believe our scale implementation will mitigate the risk of not achieving an acceptable ROI better. These risk mitigation factors include:
   a) Economy of scale build-out: ensuring a lower bottom line and thus extended profitably.
   b) The MPP is a once-off deal. Our costs see a relative decrease as we add more future capacity according to the 25% re-investment clause. IOW We'd much rather spend the premium that would otherwise go toward insurance on buying extra hashing power for lower prices in the future. Remember, a 25% reinvestment will probably result in more than 25% capacity increase (otherwise we probably won't do it).

A lesser issue:
Clause 9 of the MPP offered to us: Any capacity due will be sent via a common shipper (Fedex, UPS or similar), as chips only, and to the same address as the original machines were sent. In the absence of an open reference design for the PCB, taking receipt of only the chips at our scale didn't really make sense. This is not to say that the reference design won't be made public in the 3 months leading up to the MPP trigger event, just that it was an unquantifiable unknown at the time. That said, the Baby Jet MPP offering alludes to the probability that Hashfast will open-source their PCB design or definitely make it possible to license it out to other manufacturers, which is great.

Reading the final version which appeared @ hashfast.com a few hours ago I can say that the MPP has evolved really well from the community feedback Hashfast has received in the last few weeks. It's a great addition to the retail Baby Jet 1st batch offering. It pretty much cancels delivery date risk and is a huge huge deal. It's refreshing to see an ASIC company present something like this to sweeten the pre-order deal, listen to community feedback and adjust accordingly. It means they're doing their homework and we applaud them for it.

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August 25, 2013, 01:51:49 PM
 #7063

By next week is the End of August 2013, they supposed to have the chips produced by next week, if No They Will be Delay !! and we need to know where the heck is the Chips.

Should we All Cancel our Orders and get our Refunds?
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August 25, 2013, 02:15:41 PM
 #7064

By next week is the End of August 2013, they supposed to have the chips produced by next week, if No They Will be Delay !! and we need to know where the heck is the Chips.

Should we All Cancel our Orders and get our Refunds?


What? They said they will deliver in September, that's a month , 4 weeks. So five weeks give or take a day from now. If you missed the Sept delivery orders it's October.
No-one from KnC said a thing about chips in the 1st week of Sept. but people assume things based on delivery times.

Feel free to cancel your order if you need someone's permission to do so or if you're arse is twitching like a rabbit's nose. "We all" ? Some of us knew the risks and accepted them and feel it's acceptable that we're where we are now. We may be wrong for sure, but there's no reason to think that yet.

KnC aren't responsible for the increase in difficulty, nor can they or anyone else control or accurately predict it...why should they have anymore reason to compensate us for that if it hurts us all? They already promised to modify prices quoting the increases as the reason.

I really think a lot of people would be far happier just buying BTC, the days of massive returns are gone now. It's a risky game, too risky for many perhaps.
btc_uzr
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let's have some fun


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August 25, 2013, 02:17:07 PM
 #7065

is this just a funny coincidence?
read first definition...

http://www.webdictionary.co.uk/definition.php?query=Eve

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
DPoS
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August 25, 2013, 02:26:40 PM
 #7066

Why do so many here keep taking the trolls seriously?

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
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August 25, 2013, 02:27:40 PM
 #7067


Also, the IceDRILL thing doesn't get the MPP.  Apparently they were going to charge money for it originally, and would have with icedrill:


Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

Sorry, needed a bit of time to compare our notes from the offering then with the current public (Baby Jet) MPP.

1. The premium on the "insurance" was substantial, and was only presented as an option at the highest level of bulk buy, which was well beyond what we calculated the IPO fundraising could achieve in the current competitive, highly-saturated mining investment market.


Hang on, WTF?! So they are supposedly actively paying a third party to insure the possibility of handing out extra chips, but refuse to pay a third party like Paypal 2.9% to process credit cards and offer real payment protection to their customers supporting their venture!?!??

I call bullshit, once NRE is covered an extra chip will only cost them a few dollars to hand out. It's the equivalent of your stingy uncle saying, here you go sonny, here's £10, don't go spending or all at once. They aren't paying for the expensive part, the rest of the hardware.

They don't need anyone to insure extra chips. If they have chosen that route, whilst ignoring third party payment protection, and effectively removing as much accountability as possible it screams how unconfident they are about their claimed deadline. This is just reckless handling of customer funds, they want a free ride to a comfortable lifestyle for themselves.

As for KLees comments, think about it man, 'Miner Protection' BS only comes into effect when network competitively and costs of electricity negate possibility to reclaim funds spent, i.e. if they are delayed. If they could actually deliver in October MPP is unnecessary.

KnC don't need to offer such gimmicks of they deliver on time. Hashfast are trying their damnedest to poach customers with their MPP (again pointless if they can deliver on time) as they know full well if KnC deliver, and ship as many units per day as they claim, come October/November you could buy KnC units in stock. Which would you rather choose now? Bearing in mind KnC can match price as they no longer have NRE to cover.

For you the customer you know full well the lions share of profit is to be made from now until December. Who needs MPP if you have covered your costs before Hashfast eventually deliver?

Real miner protection is delivering on time, before November, well before crazy hashrate and electricity costs are even an issue....

Think.

If KnC miss their deadline massively, I can claim my money back from my card issuer, boom, that's real protection.

If Hashfast miss their deadline, I'm stuck with no chance of a full refund, watching everyone else already mining, or purchasing products that are priced cheaper, in stock, delivered next day.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
Phoenix1969
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August 25, 2013, 03:47:24 PM
 #7068

I think he/they mistook Hashfast & BFL for someone who was honest.
The "Bull Run" is/was a giant load of BS lies, designed to give an excuse why they are AGAIN not delivering on time to the poor folks who were dumb enough to "Upgrade" to Monarch. It was nothing more than a creative way to lower the backlog, transfer orders from refundable to non-refundable, and replenish their dwindling cash reserves which were spent on reworks and super-extended payment to assembly cavemen because BFL had never built a single ASIC before Bitcoin. The  "Bull Run" scenario & 2 month delay was never mentioned until they had made a "Clean sweep" of "upgrades" from those with lesser intelligence. That was really dirty.
I already saw the red-flags concerning Hashfast the moment they said they were making only 550 baby jets. The crew also looks like a bunch of fruits, nuts & flakes.  What about all the other chips on the reel? Seems to me as if they plan on hashing most of the chips themselves; not to mention they can't seem to even pre-sell a measly 550 machines. All the time telling folks how they are going to deliver faster than the other vendors, and even posting the "Why we're better than KNC" garbage, in which they got the figures all wrong.
P.T Barnum was certainly correct in saying "There's a sucker born every minute"
I personally hope they pay for what they've done somehow, both BFL AND Hashfast.

KNC has also stated they are NOT doing "Batch" production or shipping.
People are probably getting pretty nervous by now.


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August 25, 2013, 04:35:11 PM
 #7069

Knc will be the next terrahash
Phoenix1969
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August 25, 2013, 04:40:06 PM
 #7070

It is downright retarded to think that the MPP is beneficial.

If it was for (1) Miner, yes it would help.

But if you have to give 550 Miners up to 4 times more chips (Thats 880TH more added to the network, increasing difficulty that much more)

What "Profit Calculation" do they do?

When do they provide the chips? At the end of the 90 Days?
Exactly Bar...  "Between the lines" the NPP also screams late delivery. It was certainly worded like they know they're not delivering on time.


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August 25, 2013, 04:43:49 PM
 #7071

Knc will be the next terrahash
Mega-Facepalm....welcome to the ignore list


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ASIC-K
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August 25, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
 #7072

Knc will be the next terrahash
welcome to the ignore list

+1
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August 25, 2013, 04:46:04 PM
 #7073


Also, the IceDRILL thing doesn't get the MPP.  Apparently they were going to charge money for it originally, and would have with icedrill:


Will IceDrill be covered under the miner protection program that was recently announced?

Sorry, needed a bit of time to compare our notes from the offering then with the current public (Baby Jet) MPP.

1. The premium on the "insurance" was substantial, and was only presented as an option at the highest level of bulk buy, which was well beyond what we calculated the IPO fundraising could achieve in the current competitive, highly-saturated mining investment market.


Hang on, WTF?! So they are supposedly actively paying a third party to insure the possibility of handing out extra chips, but refuse to pay a third party like Paypal 2.9% to process credit cards and offer real payment protection to their customers supporting their venture!?!??

Uh no, what I got is that Hashfast was "offering" to sell the MPP as a product. So like, you pay an extra 10% (to them) and then if you don't ROI you get extra chips.  For the BabyJet they decided to give away the MPP for free.

Anyway, I think the MPP is way too complicated. Charging extra for it just seems extra scammy, like "here's some insurance you can buy (from us) to cover the possibility we're ripping you off"

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August 25, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
 #7074

Knc will be the next terrahash

Put your money where your mouth is: http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/

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August 25, 2013, 04:56:07 PM
 #7075

They won't be ready in October, that's a pipe dream... they didn't even tape out yet. By the time they ship their miners, KNC should have shipped their September and October orders. It is fairly probable that they will eventually deliver, but by then KNC should have cheaper hardware and the proud owners of BabyJets will probably feel that their units are more Baby than Jets Cheesy.

Sorry, but I just can't help thinking of nappy (diaper for our US cousins) changes when I hear the name BabyJet. I'm sure that the image that I have in my mind when I think of a "baby jet" is not what HashFash had in mind when naming their miner Cheesy - unless it's all a big joke and they are laughing at us!

Is this what you have in mind?


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Ytterbium
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August 25, 2013, 04:59:25 PM
 #7076

The name "Baby Jet" is actually from one of the founder's kids.  He named his daughter "Jet" and she's currently a baby.

ASIC-K
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August 25, 2013, 05:01:31 PM
 #7077

her name is jet??? weird

baby jet is really really lame.
Anenome5
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August 25, 2013, 05:03:05 PM
 #7078

Still no photos of the chip.is impossible to have it work at September
Unphotographed chips are perfectly capable of running, believe it or not.

We were not promised, and I do not expect, photos of the chips. Since they will be sent straight from China to their assembler.

In China. Most likely.

Here, put your money where your whining is:

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/


Oh yes, please keep doing that. I have one of the earliest yes bets :-D
If 'yes' wins we'll triple our money Smiley

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
Phoenix1969
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August 25, 2013, 05:04:40 PM
 #7079

On "Baby Jet" I was thinking more along the lines of...



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Anenome5
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August 25, 2013, 05:06:28 PM
 #7080

KNC's "miner protection program" is simple: they'll ship on time.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
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