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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012258 times)
Bitcoinorama
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August 25, 2013, 01:21:48 AM
 #7041

Where is the miner protection program?

Only there is one significant issue with your miner protection / compensation program you seem to overlook.

If Hashfast could produce the product and ship as suggested in the example on their page by the 23rd October 2013, they would know for sure by now, baring complications once chips are in hand, whether they could be made.

With respect to the fab (TSMC), they would know now when they were likely to be squeezed in, as they have to run a hot lot to be in with a chance for that date, and they've only just raised funds to pay.

It's very unlikely that October 20-30th is achievable, and Hashfast would already know now for sure if it is, otherwise using an 'anticipated delivery of 20th-30th October', knowing full well you can't deliver by then, would be incredibly deceitful, especially if one raises funds under the guise it's almost certainly achievable.

So deceitful you may not want to be held accountable by a third party secured payment provider like Paypal, or a plethora of card issuing banks, or offer refunds until 3 months later, perhaps limiting refunds to a two week window, sharing what little amounts would be left after expenses. Not that I believe they are likely to fail, they've taken the money from people who now can't get it back, I believe they know they will be late, or they could tell their customers for sure now when the fab has promised the chips by. After all their customers are already under NDA and deserve a right to know, if such information is to hand, which it is, because the miner protection plan means nothing if you're left faffing around paying and waiting in line again for others to make a second machine with a raw chip, whilst Hashfast deal with the order of their backlog, and possible delays, and the real winners got a significant head start weeks earlier, if they get to receive their goods in time.

Miner Protection Plan seems like a marketing ploy to cover something they are concerned enough about, to withold access to third party consumer protection, and refunds from.

Also, what makes you think the KnC chips can't be clocked? KnC have only promised 400gh/s, with margins upon margins, upon margins. That sounds like potentially a lot of room to play...


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DPoS
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August 25, 2013, 02:07:02 AM
 #7042

^^ all time troll feeder ^^

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Bitcoinorama
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August 25, 2013, 02:26:43 AM
 #7043

^^ all time troll feeder ^^

Meh, he came looking for it, and it's clear they don't want a third party holding them accountable to any dates. They removed any chance of being liable for their customers having any real protection on purpose. Wink

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Anenome5
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August 25, 2013, 02:49:07 AM
 #7044

Still no photos of the chip.is impossible to have it work at September
Unphotographed chips are perfectly capable of running, believe it or not.

We were not promised, and I do not expect, photos of the chips. Since they will be sent straight from China to their assembler.

In China. Most likely.

Here, put your money where your whining is:

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/


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SirWizz
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August 25, 2013, 04:13:09 AM
 #7045

^^ all time troll feeder ^^

Meh, he came looking for it, and it's clear they don't want a third party holding them accountable to any dates. They removed any chance of being liable for their customers having any real protection on purpose. Wink

They won't be ready in October, that's a pipe dream... they didn't even tape out yet. By the time they ship their miners, KNC should have shipped their September and October orders. It is fairly probable that they will eventually deliver, but by then KNC should have cheaper hardware and the proud owners of BabyJets will probably feel that their units are more Baby than Jets Cheesy.
FoxMURDER
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August 25, 2013, 08:28:49 AM
 #7046

Still no photos of the chip.is impossible to have it work at September
Unphotographed chips are perfectly capable of running, believe it or not.

We were not promised, and I do not expect, photos of the chips. Since they will be sent straight from China to their assembler.

In China. Most likely.

Here, put your money where your whining is:

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/


Oh yes, please keep doing that. I have one of the earliest yes bets :-D
klee
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August 25, 2013, 08:32:18 AM
 #7047

Miner protection offered by KnC would be a huge plus. I bet all you posting against HF's one would applaud the exactly same proposal from KnC lol

Plus if as a customer you really need to be sure the company you bet does the best it can to deliver you should pray HF delivers late October so KnC is more pressed to deliver ASAP. But your greed...
Ytterbium
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August 25, 2013, 08:42:27 AM
 #7048

KNC shills = OC + 12mo warranty  + no thermal control = trouble

What are you talking about?  No one is talking about overclocking these things and keeping the warranty. KnC has basically said they don't support it.

And anyway, HashFast has only a ten day warranty, unless they changed already (they were talking about taking it up to 30 days)

There's also no evidence that it doesn't at least have a temperature sensor.  That's a pretty obvious thing to include, I would assume it's in there and that the software can be coded to cut power or slow the chip down if it gets to hot.

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August 25, 2013, 08:45:09 AM
 #7049

^^ all time troll feeder ^^

Meh, he came looking for it, and it's clear they don't want a third party holding them accountable to any dates. They removed any chance of being liable for their customers having any real protection on purpose. Wink

They won't be ready in October, that's a pipe dream... they didn't even tape out yet. By the time they ship their miners, KNC should have shipped their September and October orders. It is fairly probable that they will eventually deliver, but by then KNC should have cheaper hardware and the proud owners of BabyJets will probably feel that their units are more Baby than Jets Cheesy.

It is supported by BFL experience, but maybe KNC is different

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Ytterbium
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August 25, 2013, 08:48:43 AM
 #7050

Where is the miner protection program?

If Hashfast could produce the product and ship as suggested in the example on their page by the 23rd October 2013, they would know for sure by now, baring complications once chips are in hand, whether they could be made.
...

It's very unlikely that October 20-30th is achievable, and Hashfast would already know now for sure if it is, otherwise using an 'anticipated delivery of 20th-30th October', knowing full well you can't deliver by then, would be incredibly deceitful, especially if one raises funds under the guise it's almost certainly achievable.

I wonder if they're planning on doing what BFL is openly saying they'll do with the Monarch: Get a few sample from a 'bullet run', and ship those in October, then ship the rest when a larger normal-speed wafer run is completed a few months later.

jelin1984
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August 25, 2013, 09:46:20 AM
 #7051

I think that  bitcoin mining is more business from the factory's knc Avalon bfl labs So that they do.begging take money from customers from pre order programm because does not have enough money to make chips and then have the delay delay delay .
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August 25, 2013, 09:55:18 AM
 #7052

Where is the miner protection program?

omfg really? because everybody knows, that you are paid shill representing other hw manufacturer on this board, can't believe, that you are so stupid to post questions like this one. please, stop it.
klee
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August 25, 2013, 10:24:25 AM
 #7053

Where is the miner protection program?

omfg really? because everybody knows, that you are paid shill representing other hw manufacturer on this board, can't believe, that you are so stupid to post questions like this one. please, stop it.
Try to focus on the question and not on the interests of you and cypher's...
Cheers.
Ytterbium
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August 25, 2013, 10:26:26 AM
 #7054

Where is the miner protection program?

omfg really? because everybody knows, that you are paid shill representing other hw manufacturer on this board, can't believe, that you are so stupid to post questions like this one. please, stop it.
Try to focus on the question and not on the interests of you and cypher's...
Cheers.

What question?  "Where is the miner protection plan?"  There is no miner protection plan.  It's a b.s. trolling question he already knows the answer too. 

He's not asking because he wants to know, he's asking to try to make KnC look bad - or like there are things they haven't worked out yet.

If you're not happy with the hashrate before your box is delivered you can cancel your order.

jmevz
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August 25, 2013, 10:53:28 AM
 #7055

Where is the miner protection program?

omfg really? because everybody knows, that you are paid shill representing other hw manufacturer on this board, can't believe, that you are so stupid to post questions like this one. please, stop it.
Try to focus on the question and not on the interests of you and cypher's...
Cheers.

What question?  "Where is the miner protection plan?"  There is no miner protection plan.  It's a b.s. trolling question he already knows the answer too. 

He's not asking because he wants to know, he's asking to try to make KnC look bad - or like there are things they haven't worked out yet.

If you're not happy with the hashrate before your box is delivered you can cancel your order.

What exactly is their refund policy? Going to have a read...

jlsminingcorp
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August 25, 2013, 10:57:22 AM
 #7056

They won't be ready in October, that's a pipe dream... they didn't even tape out yet. By the time they ship their miners, KNC should have shipped their September and October orders. It is fairly probable that they will eventually deliver, but by then KNC should have cheaper hardware and the proud owners of BabyJets will probably feel that their units are more Baby than Jets Cheesy.

Sorry, but I just can't help thinking of nappy (diaper for our US cousins) changes when I hear the name BabyJet. I'm sure that the image that I have in my mind when I think of a "baby jet" is not what HashFash had in mind when naming their miner Cheesy - unless it's all a big joke and they are laughing at us!

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adworker
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August 25, 2013, 11:01:55 AM
 #7057

What exactly is their refund policy? Going to have a read...


No refunds if they delliver in promised time.

Seems fair to me.
Bitcoinorama
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August 25, 2013, 12:19:55 PM
 #7058

What exactly is their refund policy? Going to have a read...


No refunds if they delliver in promised time.

Seems fair to me.

Let's be clear as to whose refund.

KnC has one. They aim to deliver on time.

Hashfast is refusing one. To compensate they offer a 'miner protection program' where upon you are given another chip and a short period to scramble to get it made into something usable as compensation for any delays, because they will be unable to honour refunds.

Question is, does Hashfast already know if they will be late or not? Of course they do, they know if TSMC has any rocket runs available within only two months, as does TSMC. They've already made their customer sign NDAs, so they could always choose to be straight up with those customers if they wanted to. Instead they push a marketing gimmick. Oldest trick in the book, favoured by magicians and salesmen everywhere;

'The art of misdirection', don't look at what I'm doing with this hand, look at his one instead;

- No third party protected consumer protection via secured payment methods, Paypal's 45 day refund would take you now to October, in which Hashfast could guarantee you know for sure whether they will deliver on time, Hashfast know this, so they have refused Paypal.

- Refusing all refunds until January with no third party covering, means minimal accountability by Hashfast and monies almost certainly spent 3 months after 'anticipated delivery'.

- Altering the option for refund to now only two weeks on January in their terms, after customers have already purchased.

- Altering wording in their sales garb from expected delivery 20th-30th Oct, to 'anticipated delivery 20th-30th Oct', after customers have already purchased.

- Altering warranty after customers have already purchased. Bearing in mind they are not operating with margins upon margins themselves, but focusing on running their chip extremely hot as stock and requiring extreme cooling as standard to cope. Liquid cooling is not embraced by most data-centres, there is nothing stopping you from doing the same to a KnC chip, or an Avalon, or a BFL, if you are happy to waive warranty, which is why Hashfast want to limit their own warranty from the get go.

- Altering refund and warranty details after customer have already purchased and choosing not to inform them of any alterations, only vigilant members of this forum spotted the changes. They also did this with their privacy policy, although they stated they had made a mistake there, yet this appears to be a continued tactic to alter terms once one party has agreed.

- There is no need for Miner Protection Plans if they deliver on time, and they already know if they can, or not. I think most, if not all would rather they drop their price significantly if they deliver excessively late, as opposed to being given a raw chip they them have to suddenly assemble at further cost and inconvenience.

All signs point to Hashfast's lack of confidence in (now anticipated) delivery date. No MPP will protect you from potential profits lost from a significant delay on a competitor whose had weeks head start with the same 28nm tech. Logical.

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klee
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August 25, 2013, 12:28:42 PM
 #7059

Where is the miner protection program?

omfg really? because everybody knows, that you are paid shill representing other hw manufacturer on this board, can't believe, that you are so stupid to post questions like this one. please, stop it.
Try to focus on the question and not on the interests of you and cypher's...
Cheers.

What question?  "Where is the miner protection plan?"  There is no miner protection plan.  It's a b.s. trolling question he already knows the answer too. 

He's not asking because he wants to know, he's asking to try to make KnC look bad - or like there are things they haven't worked out yet.

If you're not happy with the hashrate before your box is delivered you can cancel your order.
If KnC offers you the chance for more chips, provided they delivered on time but unfortunately difficulty skyrocketed so much you won't ROI, you don't want them?!?
I would like to get them! Better than nothing.

As a customer the best deal from me would be credit card refund option + MPP!
klee
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August 25, 2013, 12:30:43 PM
 #7060

What exactly is their refund policy? Going to have a read...


No refunds if they delliver in promised time.

Seems fair to me.

Let's be clear as to whose refund.

KnC has one. They aim to deliver on time.

Hashfast is refusing one. To compensate they offer a 'miner protection program' where upon you are given another chip and a short period to scramble to get it made into something usable as compensation for any delays, because they will be unable to honour refunds.

Question is, does Hashfast already know if they will be late or not? Of course they do, they know if TSMC has any rocket runs available within only two months, as does TSMC. They've already made their customer sign NDAs, so they could always choose to be straight up with those customers if they wanted to. Instead they push a marketing gimmick. Oldest trick in the book, favoured by magicians and salesmen everywhere;

'The art of misdirection', don't look at what I'm doing with this hand, look at his one instead;

- No third party protected consumer protection via secured payment methods, Paypal's 45 day refund would take you now to October, in which Hashfast could guarantee you know for sure whether they will deliver on time, Hashfast know this, so they have refused Paypal.

- Refusing all refunds until January with no third party covering, means minimal accountability by Hashfast and monies almost certainly spent 3 months after 'anticipated delivery'.

- Altering the option for refund to now only two weeks on January in their terms, after customers have already purchased.

- Altering wording in their sales garb from expected delivery 20th-30th Oct, to 'anticipated delivery 20th-30th Oct', after customers have already purchased.

- Altering warranty after customers have already purchased. Bearing in mind they are not operating with margins upon margins themselves, but focusing on running their chip extremely hot as stock and requiring extreme cooling as standard to cope. Liquid cooling is not embraced by most data-centres, there is nothing stopping you from doing the same to a KnC chip, or an Avalon, or a BFL, if you are happy to waive warranty, which is why Hashfast want to limit their own warranty from the get go.

- Altering refund and warranty details after customer have already purchased and choosing not to inform them of any alterations, only vigilant members of this forum spotted the changes. They also did this with their privacy policy, although they stated they had made a mistake there, yet this appears to be a continued tactic to alter terms once one party has agreed.

- There is no need for Miner Protection Plans if they deliver on time, and they already know if they can, or not. I think most, if not all would rather they drop their price significantly if they deliver excessively late, as opposed to being given a raw chip they them have to suddenly assemble at further cost and inconvenience.

Logical.
Is their MPP valid only if they won't deliver on time?
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