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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012559 times)
Anenome5
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August 25, 2013, 05:10:54 PM
 #7081

The name "Baby Jet" is actually from one of the founder's kids.  He named his daughter "Jet" and she's currently a baby.
That's really cute Smiley

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August 25, 2013, 05:17:45 PM
 #7082

KNC's "miner protection program" is simple: they'll ship on time.
I look for them to be the very first to do so... We'll see most of the naysayers jumping on the bandwagon then for Gen2 most likely, saying they always knew KNC was the best choice. Only 6 days left till October, so we'll see within a month just who is who in the Asic game.


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August 25, 2013, 05:26:13 PM
 #7083

Miner protection offered by KnC would be a huge plus.

A New Yorker relocated to rural Georgia, I sometimes get surprised at the lengths gone to make money down here.  Cable was new and the local company went out to all the rural homes and ran cable no charge.  Very sloppy but done.  They put in fiber early on which was great.  They wanted no personal routers and to be called in for home networking but of course that didn't fly.  No telling if that was official or just cable guys wanting more work.  Every telephone pole has a ground wire from the inter pole steel cables.  The something like #10 gauge uninsulated copper ran down the pole and grounded the support cable in conjunction with the steel cables to a ground support.  The cable company also used these grounds, clamping in grounds from from their junction boxes strung on the lines.  Those junction boxes hanging in the air under their own support steel cables have #10 copper clamped from one side of the junction box to the other over the junctions providing a lower resistance conductor than the steel cable as just a little better safeguard from lightening surges.  Now every telephone pole has, or had, one of these grounds.  On my property, the home is ~535 feet from the front property line and there are two telephone poles within my fence and one on the road outside my fence.  I get my cable from an office in a town 17 miles south.  When there's a problem they farm out the troubleshooting to a private electric company in Alabama.  The cable company's own trucks do major work however.  Mowing my lawn along the road this year my mower got caught in some #10 wire, uninsulated, lying in the grass a few feet from the roadside telephone pole.  It had been cut from the pole about a foot from the ground to about 5 feet from the ground, a 4 foot gap.  I immediately suspected an antisocial neighbor but then I noticed other poles on the road also had the ground cut in the same manner.  Jogging 5k south and back I noticed the telephone poles there also had the grounds cut.  I wrote to the cable company and the power company.  The cable company sent somebody from Alabama who called his boss then handed me the phone whence I was told they weren't going to replace the cut ground.  They said that the other poles on my property all had grounds.  What this does, removing the grounds on telephone poles along the road, is to reduce the number of paths to ground for the energy of a lightening strike increasing the damage radius.  This was either done officially by the power or cable company, like arguing the grounds increased the likelihood of a lightening strike (but removing the ground wires increasing their repair calls thus giving them statistics for higher rates) or by the workers of the private Alabama company that services the area so they'd have increased service calls and make more money.  Particularly, the unpopulated areas without power transformers for non-existant homes or cable, why remove the grounds there except to have a higher probability of lightening energy out there traveling to populated areas causing damage.  So, yes, some kind of insurance policy by KnCMiner would be nice.

I remember years ago a tow truck company got nailed for pouring oil on a something like a bridge entrance ramp so as to drum up business.



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Phoenix1969
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August 25, 2013, 05:39:27 PM
 #7084

They do come with a 1 year warranty.
As long as they are on time, and within spec; that's all the insurance they should be liable for.
You can't expect a company to insure the network difficulty rate, that's absurd.


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Bitcoinorama
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August 25, 2013, 05:42:46 PM
 #7085

KNC's "miner protection program" is simple: they'll ship on time.
I look for them to be the very first to do so... We'll see most of the naysayers jumping on the bandwagon then for Gen2 most likely, saying they always knew KNC was the best choice. Only 6 days left till October, so we'll see within a month just who is who in the Asic game.

*September. Wink

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August 25, 2013, 05:49:48 PM
 #7086

3 pages of discussion and not a trace of Cypherdoc.  He be thinking mission accomplished.
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August 25, 2013, 05:57:33 PM
 #7087

3 pages of discussion and not a trace of Cypherdoc.  He be thinking mission accomplished.

Or that his MPP BS has been totally unravelled for what it is; purely an excuse for the fact they could but won't offer real consumer protection, or accept liability for their claim of 'anticipated date' being sales BS. They already know if they have been allocated a hot lot by TSMC, or not. Removing all possibilities for refund until January (when all monies will have been spent), or accountability, speaks volumes.

Technically if they already know whether they will be allocated a run or not, but are still suggesting an anticipated delivery date they cannot meet would be at best dishonest, and at worst fraudulent. Some of their customers have already signed an NDA, and those particular customers should be asking for visual proof of confirmation. MPP means sh*t all, of everyone else has already covered their expenditure, by the time you receive you unit.

I'd rather have true third party accountability for inability to deliver, than bogus protection for false claims.

Again if Hashfast could meet their anticipated deadline, prove it, stake your reputation on it, accept Paypal and give people the option of cancelling within 45 days when everyone will know whether you're honest, or not.

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August 25, 2013, 06:32:02 PM
 #7088

Again if Hashfast could meet their anticipated deadline, prove it, stake your reputation on it, accept Paypal and give people the option of cancelling within 45 days when everyone will know whether you're honest, or not.

They have sold 93% of their initial run in about two weeks.  It seems likely the remaining 7% will sell before the launch without any change in policy.  Why would they change now?  Between that an IceDrill and the first batch they have enough revenue to cover all costs from tape out up through final shipping even without a single satoshi in more sales.  So what point would there be to change things now?  To convince you (who wouldn't buy anyways)?  


Rocket run isn't that hard to believe.  Foundries love the 300% to 500% markup.  Bitcoin is a perfect (although unconventional) use of a rocket run.  Bitcoin miners have such a depreciating value of time combined with the fact that the raw silicon is a small portion of retail prices there really is no reason not to pay the markup.  If we guesstimate a high $10,000 per wafer (small run 28nm non-preferential pricing) that works out to $0.14 per mm^2 *.    Simple and dirty a 361mm^2 (19x19) chip has a raw silicon cost on the order of $50.  So even if they are forced to take a 500% markup (likely less) for a rocket run that means an only $200 in additional cost per rig ($1000 if the max MPP is paid out).  Unless you think the balance of the system cost $5000 or more there is enough gross margin to cover that markup. 

Honestly for Bitcoin miners, there is no reason NOT to use a rocket run and no real reason for foundry to deny it unless they simply have no clients they can bump.


* Not all of the wafer is usable due to square chips on a round wafer.  The actual cost would be marginally higher (maybe 10%).  If someone cares enough there are formulas to cacluate the exact number of chips which will fit in a wafer of a given size.  However this is good enough for now.
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August 25, 2013, 06:44:34 PM
 #7089


  Foundries love the 300% to 500% markup.  Bitcoin is a perfect (although unconventional) use of a rocket run.  Bitcoin miners have such a depreciating value of time combined with the fact that the raw silicon is a small portion of retail prices there really is no reason not to pay the markup.  If we guesstimate a high $10,000 per wafer (small run 28nm non-preferential pricing) that works out to $0.14 per mm^2 *.

Just out of curiosity, do you know how much it costs per wafer for other node sizes?  There doesn't seem to be a lot of pricing data online.

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August 25, 2013, 07:13:36 PM
 #7090

They won't be ready in October, that's a pipe dream... they didn't even tape out yet. By the time they ship their miners, KNC should have shipped their September and October orders. It is fairly probable that they will eventually deliver, but by then KNC should have cheaper hardware and the proud owners of BabyJets will probably feel that their units are more Baby than Jets Cheesy.

Sorry, but I just can't help thinking of nappy (diaper for our US cousins) changes when I hear the name BabyJet. I'm sure that the image that I have in my mind when I think of a "baby jet" is not what HashFash had in mind when naming their miner Cheesy - unless it's all a big joke and they are laughing at us!

Is this what you have in mind?



Yup, that one or Phoenix1969's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg3005817#msg3005817). Any parents out there in bitcoinland will probably have experienced both forms of baby jet at some point.

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August 25, 2013, 07:37:51 PM
 #7091

KNC's "miner protection program" is simple: they'll ship on time.

haha nice Cheesy
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August 25, 2013, 07:47:16 PM
 #7092


Let the countdown to KnCMiner "SeptembA to RemembA" begin!

 6 Days and "Cointing"...  Grin

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August 25, 2013, 08:43:08 PM
 #7093

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(
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August 25, 2013, 08:54:12 PM
 #7094

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Read as: Know 4 people that needed money for their vacation so they cancelled their orders.

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August 25, 2013, 08:57:26 PM
 #7095

Or that his MPP BS has been totally unravelled for what it is; purely an excuse for the fact they could but won't offer real consumer protection, or accept liability for their claim of 'anticipated date' being sales BS. They already know if they have been allocated a hot lot by TSMC, or not. Removing all possibilities for refund until January (when all monies will have been spent), or accountability, speaks volumes.

Technically if they already know whether they will be allocated a run or not, but are still suggesting an anticipated delivery date they cannot meet would be at best dishonest, and at worst fraudulent. Some of their customers have already signed an NDA, and those particular customers should be asking for visual proof of confirmation. MPP means sh*t all, of everyone else has already covered their expenditure, by the time you receive you unit.

I'd rather have true third party accountability for inability to deliver, than bogus protection for false claims.

Again if Hashfast could meet their anticipated deadline, prove it, stake your reputation on it, accept Paypal and give people the option of cancelling within 45 days when everyone will know whether you're honest, or not.

Agreed 100%.  I think most people will see through the claimed MPP, including Cypherdoc to be honest.  

I think he just came on and said what he said to deliberately rile people up and maybe encourage some to make an argument.
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Hell?


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August 25, 2013, 09:01:53 PM
 #7096

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Read as: Know 4 people that needed money for their vacation so they cancelled their orders.

spot on.
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August 25, 2013, 09:11:14 PM
 #7097

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Why they preordered then? We know month of delivery, so expect at the end of month
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August 25, 2013, 09:13:11 PM
 #7098

Knc will be the next terrahash


You know what was the main problem terrahash? One of their biggest buyers or greater (cloudhahing). He canceled his purchase to lay eggs in the basket of KNC.

Xialla
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August 25, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
 #7099

personally knows at least 4 people who already cancel (and lot of others considering it) their pre-order, because nobody from KNC was not able to answer their questions about shipping date. (they plan vacation with family, they were not in 1/2 day of shipping etc)

so sad.(

Why they preordered then? We know month of delivery, so expect at the end of month

dunno.) I will hold my 1st day Jupiter until last day of September.
erschiessen
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August 25, 2013, 11:00:29 PM
 #7100

Where is the miner protection program?

KnC doesn't have a cutesy gimmick to sucker  lure in customers.

I do recall them stating early on that if difficulty keeps going vertical, early KnC adpoters will see additional equipment at incredible price points.

No fancy name, but it could be the template that became HalfFast MPP.



So, if we consider KnC and HalfFast as both being legit...

1) --- KnC is scheduled to beat HF to market.
2) --- KnC offers refunds until shipment.
3) --- KnC will ensure ROI.

KnC wins 2 and ties the other.
HF, too late, too shady.

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