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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [2.5+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 4326791 times)
organofcorti
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October 27, 2011, 02:52:40 AM
 #4181

I'm not trying to criticize your work or your site.  You've done something I could never do on my own.  I use your site because it is the largest merged mining pool I have found.  But I see so many other sites that have merged mining all having the same basic stats available to the users.  I just don't see how some of these basic stats would be so difficult to display.  Just in my thinking, it would seem that you would need to have these stats anyway to calculate proper payout, so displaying these stats to the users would be as simple as storing them in another table to on database and re-writing some of the stat pages to display them. 

I've spent way too much time analysing Slush's pool, and it is definitely my favourite with lots of easter eggs for the mathematically inclined. More importantly, the payouts over a week or so are exactly as I'd expect, the statistics are fantastic, and the website quick and intuitive. I have to agree with Slush that you really don't need to know your submitted shares and unless you have the exact time each was submitted you won't end up with the correct score anyway.


If you know your average hashrate and score for a round, then you can approximate the number of shares submitted using:
Code:
c y log(1+z/(c y))
where c=300, z is your score and c is your miner speed in shares per second. It will probably be +/- 5% out, but it should be close.


Quote
Sometimes I'm making 0.030 BTC per block found, and sometimes I'm making as low as 0.006 per block found. 

You probably won't trust me on my say-so, but I've analysed my scores and the pool scores on and off for a few months and my earnings match simulated earnings quite well. That said, the longer a round lasts the more the variance in payout you will observe - you're more likely to get much more or less than you'd expect for longer rounds.




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organofcorti
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October 27, 2011, 03:10:33 AM
 #4182

Another limitation of the function I give above is that it won't calculate any imaginary shares Smiley (math joke for the geeks out there)

For that you would need the full derivation:

Code:
c y log(1+z/(c y)+2*i*pi)

Now you can check the score of non-real shares! I wonder what my imaginary gpu's hashrate is? Something pretty damn devastating, i expect.

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October 27, 2011, 01:03:02 PM
 #4183

Hello everybody,

Is the pool ok?
As for me the current 9+ hour block looks a bit unlucky.
And the previous 4 hour too.

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October 27, 2011, 01:11:24 PM
 #4184

It looks like something is up.

My miners are all running properly though, so I suspect that it's Slush poking around with stats etc.

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October 27, 2011, 01:14:41 PM
 #4185

Everything seems to be ok. It's "only" 9.5mil shares, so nothing impossible. For example, deepbit had 10+ mil shares in one round today, too.

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October 27, 2011, 01:17:16 PM
 #4186

Estimated rewards etc seem totally off though atm  Wink

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October 27, 2011, 01:31:59 PM
 #4187

Estimated rewards etc seem totally off though atm  Wink

OK, it's only >estimated< reward; it's calculated from slightly outdated info (becuase of caching). I'll watch how rewards from this block will be finally distributed and if there will be something weird, I'll fix it. Thanks for pointing me to that.

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October 27, 2011, 01:39:56 PM
 #4188

I really do not understand your scoring system.

30 seconds on google would explain the scoring system and all the other payout systems

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools

Score - Score based system: a proportional reward, but weighed by time submitted. Each submitted share is worth more in the function of time t since start of current round. For each share score is updated by: score += exp(t/C). This makes later shares worth much more than earlier shares, thus the miner's score quickly diminishes when they stop mining on the pool. Rewards are calculated proportionally to scores (and not to shares). (at slush's pool C=300 seconds, and every hour scores are normalized)


so when you see it drop back to 200 or whatever its because the scores were normalized...

With current pool hash rate Early shares submitted by a pool hopper will decline very quickly
every increase in total hash rate of the pool increases that rate of decline
The score system esentially makes what you submited at the beginning of a round worthless
even if you mine for the whole round

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October 27, 2011, 02:22:43 PM
 #4189

Hello everybody,

Is the pool ok?
As for me the current 9+ hour block looks a bit unlucky.
And the previous 4 hour too.

Yeah, im sure it's just unlucky.  I've seen 12+ hour blocks in the recent past (not counting the 1 1/2 day block from when the pool was ddos'ed).

Didn't happen as often when the pool was up around 2000 ghash, but now that its around 1200/1300 there is a lot more variance.

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
DutchBrat
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October 28, 2011, 06:51:58 AM
 #4190

Most of my miners are getting:

Pool not responding errors

Are we being attacked again Huh
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October 28, 2011, 06:59:36 AM
 #4191

Looks alright on my end  Undecided

slush
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October 29, 2011, 11:16:20 AM
 #4192

This weekend (29-30. October) I'm migrating pool from London (linode.com) to France (ovh.com). Although I believe everything will be fine, there will be at least one outage during database migration (probably something around 30 minutes).

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October 29, 2011, 03:11:11 PM
 #4193

Question for Slush:

In describing the logic/calculation of the score-based system, you mentioned this:

====
Matematically said, for every submitted share, pool perform

Code:
score = score + exp(round_time/C)

round_time is count of seconds between "now" and time when round started, C is magic constant which define how fast old shares lose their value. All following calculations are using C=300, but it may be changed in the future to provide the best cheatproof/usability ratio.

And on the end of round, system calculate rewards using formula

Code:
reward = user score / total score * 50
====

Is it really done for EVERY submitted share for EVERY user? that's a lot of calculations, no? or is there some other interval used to calculate the scores? maybe the scores are calculated at the end of each round?

please enlighten....

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October 29, 2011, 03:23:00 PM
 #4194

score = score + exp(round_time/C)

This is done for every submitted share immediately.

Quote
reward = user score / total score * 50

This is done on the end of round.

Quote
Is it really done for EVERY submitted share for EVERY user?

Yes, why not? It's one exponent function per share. With current multigigahertz machines it really isn't an issue :-).

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October 29, 2011, 03:29:25 PM
 #4195

score = score + exp(round_time/C)

This is done for every submitted share immediately.

Quote
reward = user score / total score * 50

This is done on the end of round.

Quote
Is it really done for EVERY submitted share for EVERY user?

Yes, why not? It's one exponent function per share. With current multigigahertz machines it really isn't an issue :-).

It's one exponent function per share PER USER. if you have 200 users you are doing this calculation 200 times for each share? then adding the new score to the cumulative score for each user and storing that in memory? for all the millions of shares?

not that it would be difficult for the modern pc, but my question is if it is done on an ongoing basis, then why does it take about 10 minutes to publish the rewards after each round?

BTW, thx for the lightning fast response Smiley

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October 29, 2011, 03:32:07 PM
 #4196

score = score + exp(round_time/C)

This is done for every submitted share immediately.

Quote
reward = user score / total score * 50

This is done on the end of round.

Quote
Is it really done for EVERY submitted share for EVERY user?

Yes, why not? It's one exponent function per share. With current multigigahertz machines it really isn't an issue :-).

It's one exponent function per share PER USER. if you have 200 users you are doing this calculation 200 times for each share? then adding the new score to the cumulative score for each user and storing that in memory? for all the millions of shares?

not that it would be difficult for the modern pc, but my question is if it is done on an ongoing basis, then why does it take about 10 minutes to publish the rewards after each round?

BTW, thx for the lightning fast response Smiley

sorry, just realized my mistake, a share is not submitted by multiple users and still be valid. so no need to multiply by number of users...

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October 29, 2011, 03:33:17 PM
 #4197

It is great mining for NMC in Slush's Pool but my luck is real bad on BTC for quite sometime.   
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October 29, 2011, 03:42:37 PM
 #4198

It is great mining for NMC in Slush's Pool but my luck is real bad on BTC for quite sometime.   

Is your expected round reward significantly lower than it should be? For eliminate effect of score based system, you can take last 50 round rewards and recalculate it with proportional method (your hashrate against pool hashrate, which is pretty constant around 1170 for last few days).

If this fits, then it's pool luck (well, we performed pretty bad last few days). If it don't fit, then we need to investigate more. Usually it's because of some connection troubles, rejected shares or crippled miner software or cards. Actually I don't have a reason to think there's some flaw in pool code, I didn't touch important stuff for many weeks and merged mining cannot affect this.

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October 29, 2011, 03:43:19 PM
 #4199

It's a good thing luck evens out in infinity,

so give it a few more years and we will be alright  Wink

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October 29, 2011, 03:44:23 PM
 #4200

It's one exponent function per share PER USER. if you have 200 users you are doing this calculation 200 times for each share? then adding the new score to the cumulative score for each user and storing that in memory? for all the millions of shares?

As you already realized, score is calculated only for one share submit, not for submit*users :-).

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