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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3852749 times)
bulanula
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November 08, 2011, 05:37:05 PM
 #4541

bottom line:
If you not hashing fast enough at some point the rate of declineing payoff will exceed the shares your miner can submit and you loose to the big boys (especially when's hard to find a share)

You are quite wrong about that because you misunderstand how a proportional pool works.

You will get less variance with a PPS pool but a lower average payout. PPS pools need to give you a lower average payout by design as they are covering the variance.



What about 0% fee PPS pools like ABC pool etc. !? Diminished earnings compared to prop system or not ?

For the love of God! Doesn't anyone inform themselves anymore @ wikipedia and mining guides? A pps pool with 0% fee would be great, except the pool will go bankrupt in no time. A ppl pool always take takes the full risk and may actually end up paying out much more to miners than it is making as a whole.

And for those other comments, what is the deal with that fanboy naming? Has this become the new standard 'Secret of Monkey Island'TM answer if you can't counter an argument on the basis of matter of fact? ;-) No offence.

I mine @ Slush not because of an awesome man-crush on czech programmers but simply because this pool offers low fees, long polling, merged mining and a way to counter pool hopping. I honestly liked BtcGuild but found out that my payouts at 0% prop were somehow less than at Slush's pool over the time of two months. And during that, there were downtimes over there as well. I tried deepbit (10%) and quickly decided against it, if you are willing to go pps, surely there are cheaper alternatives since variance is not a problem with any pps, or is it? I tried other pps pools, but they still have quite high fees and no merged mining. If they do offer merged mining and pps, they have hidden transfer fees that sum up to 10% again (NMCBit).

At least we know why people choose deepbit now, they didn't understand the entire variance thing yet and need to educate themselves a bit more. Bigger pool isn't always better, quite literally.

Well then I don't see Ars, abcpool and eligius going bankrupt any time soon yet they offer 0% fee PPS with MM too !? Maybe they are just about to go bankrupt Smiley
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November 08, 2011, 05:44:31 PM
 #4542

bottom line:
If you not hashing fast enough at some point the rate of declineing payoff will exceed the shares your miner can submit and you loose to the big boys (especially when's hard to find a share)

You are quite wrong about that because you misunderstand how a proportional pool works.

You will get less variance with a PPS pool but a lower average payout. PPS pools need to give you a lower average payout by design as they are covering the variance.



What about 0% fee PPS pools like ABC pool etc. !? Diminished earnings compared to prop system or not ?

For the love of God! Doesn't anyone inform themselves anymore @ wikipedia and mining guides? A pps pool with 0% fee would be great, except the pool will go bankrupt in no time. A ppl pool always take takes the full risk and may actually end up paying out much more to miners than it is making as a whole.

And for those other comments, what is the deal with that fanboy naming? Has this become the new standard 'Secret of Monkey Island'TM answer if you can't counter an argument on the basis of matter of fact? ;-) No offence.

I mine @ Slush not because of an awesome man-crush on czech programmers but simply because this pool offers low fees, long polling, merged mining and a way to counter pool hopping. I honestly liked BtcGuild but found out that my payouts at 0% prop were somehow less than at Slush's pool over the time of two months. And during that, there were downtimes over there as well. I tried deepbit (10%) and quickly decided against it, if you are willing to go pps, surely there are cheaper alternatives since variance is not a problem with any pps, or is it? I tried other pps pools, but they still have quite high fees and no merged mining. If they do offer merged mining and pps, they have hidden transfer fees that sum up to 10% again (NMCBit).

At least we know why people choose deepbit now, they didn't understand the entire variance thing yet and need to educate themselves a bit more. Bigger pool isn't always better, quite literally.

Well then I don't see Ars, abcpool and eligius going bankrupt any time soon yet they offer 0% fee PPS with MM too !? Maybe they are just about to go bankrupt Smiley

Ars and Eligius aren't PPS.
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November 08, 2011, 05:45:45 PM
 #4543

Yes they are offering that but look at it this way, but it all balances out over the long run.  On a short round I earn around 0.013 - 0.015, and the same on a long round.  I might earn more on a long round using pps at elugius but I earn alot less on the short round so it averages out.

Since the hardware failure I have contributed about 24000 shares to slush and been paid out around 1.1 btc (rounded to the nearest tenth)  if I had contributed those same 24000 shares to elugius I would have recieved 0.99 btc a 10 percent difference.  I'm only mining at 240mh/s

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November 08, 2011, 05:51:10 PM
 #4544

I don't want to turn notifications off because I want to hear about any news like that. 

This brings up another point, and that is this: Slush, could you set up a locked thread that no one can comment in, that will allow you to only post status updates and so forth? That would be a lot nicer for various announcements and so forth. Don't know whether that is possible on this board or not though.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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November 08, 2011, 06:07:44 PM
 #4545

This brings up another point, and that is this: Slush, could you set up a locked thread that no one can comment in, that will allow you to only post status updates and so forth? That would be a lot nicer for various announcements and so forth. Don't know whether that is possible on this board or not though.

I'm in process to moving pool thread to another forum completely. I'm missing a lot of features here and you're right that thread with 230 pages is a mess...

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November 08, 2011, 06:15:09 PM
 #4546

Yes they are offering that but look at it this way, but it all balances out over the long run.  On a short round I earn around 0.013 - 0.015, and the same on a long round.  I might earn more on a long round using pps at elugius but I earn alot less on the short round so it averages out.

You're watching it in wrong way. Don't follow reward *per round*, it doesn't give you almost any valuable information. Per-round reward is affected by too many factors like pool size and rewarding system. And also - who cares about reward PER ROUND? Isn't important reward PER TIME? So follow daily, weekly or monthly income, it is much better measure of pool performance.

240Mhash is enough to see very stable daily or weekly payouts, but maybe not enough to see per round payouts. But again - who cares? Really anybody need to earn the same amount of bitcents every minute or every hour?

Quote
Since the hardware failure

I'm sorry, but you cannot compare fully-working pool with pool which is under reinstall. For example I has been tuning server parameters for few hours with only a half of traffic, the other half has been cut off on firewall. So this is one of reasons why some users saw weird numbers in round rewards during the outage. However I fixed those rounds later by recalculating rounds with proportional method.

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November 08, 2011, 07:05:47 PM
 #4547

So I guess I DID NOT see it happen in a 3 h period on a 6h block yesterday guess it was a mirage

3 hours isn't an average of anything with variance that is inherent in hashing.

Tell you what come back in 3 weeks.  I will show my # of shares and revenue.  You show your # of shares and revenue.  Then everyone can laugh at how you decided to throw away 10% 17% (forgot about merged mining) of your hashing power for nothing.

Well my daily avg with deepbit (pay per share) for the last 5 days is 29% higher than Slushes daily avg for the last 4 months  It gets even greater if I don't go back for 4 mo with slush but I attribute that to increased difficulty

Quite a difference for paying what you say @ deepbit

And for Slush
  I find it interesting that you would resort to name calling me a troll because I'm state something that I observed about your pool.

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November 08, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
 #4548

I find it interesting that you would resort to name calling me a troll because I'm state something that I observed about your pool.

No, it's not because of this. You're missing the reason why I'm calling you a troll. But I don't want to chat about it anymore, have better things to do.

digital
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November 08, 2011, 07:36:00 PM
 #4549

Is it just me, or has the pool been on a real winning streak lately?

Seems like my payouts have more than doubled this week.  Looks like we're getting some payback from all the downtime!

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
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November 08, 2011, 07:39:28 PM
 #4550

Digital: Actually it's only sudden effect of stable pool, lower difficulty and normal luck. A week ago pool luck was pretty crappy, so I hope that normal or slightly better luck will be with us for some time now :-).

digital
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November 08, 2011, 07:42:29 PM
 #4551

I hope that normal or slightly better luck will be with us for some time now :-).

Amen to that!

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
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November 08, 2011, 07:53:26 PM
 #4552

so, still no takers on the gold/silver thing?

i am imagining it like that:

miners would register a bitcoin adress related to an account on my site.
they could chose the product they'd like to accumulate (choices may include 1g gold bars, krugerrands, 1g silver bars, 1oz silver coins... whatever).
so every time the actual factual price of the product is reached, the system buys one for them.
if they would like to have their stuff shipped, the just tell the system and the moment the calculated postage is reached, voila, stuff is sent on its way.

is that kinda how you wanted it to work out?


bulanula
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November 08, 2011, 08:00:09 PM
 #4553

bottom line:
If you not hashing fast enough at some point the rate of declineing payoff will exceed the shares your miner can submit and you loose to the big boys (especially when's hard to find a share)

You are quite wrong about that because you misunderstand how a proportional pool works.

You will get less variance with a PPS pool but a lower average payout. PPS pools need to give you a lower average payout by design as they are covering the variance.



What about 0% fee PPS pools like ABC pool etc. !? Diminished earnings compared to prop system or not ?

For the love of God! Doesn't anyone inform themselves anymore @ wikipedia and mining guides? A pps pool with 0% fee would be great, except the pool will go bankrupt in no time. A ppl pool always take takes the full risk and may actually end up paying out much more to miners than it is making as a whole.

And for those other comments, what is the deal with that fanboy naming? Has this become the new standard 'Secret of Monkey Island'TM answer if you can't counter an argument on the basis of matter of fact? ;-) No offence.

I mine @ Slush not because of an awesome man-crush on czech programmers but simply because this pool offers low fees, long polling, merged mining and a way to counter pool hopping. I honestly liked BtcGuild but found out that my payouts at 0% prop were somehow less than at Slush's pool over the time of two months. And during that, there were downtimes over there as well. I tried deepbit (10%) and quickly decided against it, if you are willing to go pps, surely there are cheaper alternatives since variance is not a problem with any pps, or is it? I tried other pps pools, but they still have quite high fees and no merged mining. If they do offer merged mining and pps, they have hidden transfer fees that sum up to 10% again (NMCBit).

At least we know why people choose deepbit now, they didn't understand the entire variance thing yet and need to educate themselves a bit more. Bigger pool isn't always better, quite literally.

Well then I don't see Ars, abcpool and eligius going bankrupt any time soon yet they offer 0% fee PPS with MM too !? Maybe they are just about to go bankrupt Smiley


Ars and Eligius aren't PPS.

OK well I get the fact that they are both SMPPS and thus never pays more than the pool earns.

But ... there must be some pool out there with really 0% fees and real PPS system and only transaction fees pay for the running of the pool Smiley Huh

Or am I just dreaming ?
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November 08, 2011, 08:00:17 PM
 #4554

Today update - QoS on LP implemented

I succesfully implemented prioritization of longpoll broadcasts. It means that crappy CPU miners don't block LP broadcasts for regular miners using GPU or strong rigs, because priority is calculated from average hashrate over last 10 blocks.

This of course means that QoS is not instant - if you're new on the pool, you need to wait some time to get higher priority. You can watch average hashrate (that's the same number which longpolling daemon use for prioritization) on your profile.

You don't need to do anything on your side, it's transparent for miners.

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November 08, 2011, 08:12:01 PM
 #4555

I find it interesting that you would resort to name calling me a troll because I'm state something that I observed about your pool.

No, it's not because of this. You're missing the reason why I'm calling you a troll. But I don't want to chat about it anymore, have better things to do.

So why the name calling Huh
You had those "better things to do" when you did it

Guess you just don't like what I have to say

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November 08, 2011, 08:21:41 PM
 #4556

I find it interesting that you would resort to name calling me a troll because I'm state something that I observed about your pool.

No, it's not because of this. You're missing the reason why I'm calling you a troll. But I don't want to chat about it anymore, have better things to do.

So why the name calling Huh
You had those "better things to do" when you did it

Guess you just don't like what I have to say

The problem is your statement is misinformed.  True it's your observation, but your sample size is so small that the results are completely irrelevant (outside of comparing PPS to PPS, and even then there is variance on your own miner's luck at diff=1 shares).

3 hour sample size?  100% useless.  24 hour sample size?  Also useless.  2 week sample size?  Now you're getting warmer.

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November 08, 2011, 08:49:55 PM
 #4557

I find it interesting that you would resort to name calling me a troll because I'm state something that I observed about your pool.

No, it's not because of this. You're missing the reason why I'm calling you a troll. But I don't want to chat about it anymore, have better things to do.

So why the name calling Huh
You had those "better things to do" when you did it

Guess you just don't like what I have to say

The problem is your statement is misinformed.  True it's your observation, but your sample size is so small that the results are completely irrelevant (outside of comparing PPS to PPS, and even then there is variance on your own miner's luck at diff=1 shares).

3 hour sample size?  100% useless.  24 hour sample size?  Also useless.  2 week sample size?  Now you're getting warmer.

well if that has anything to do with namecalling

my observation of slushes pool was over the last 4 MONTH's
Excluding his "problems"
yes a 3 hr sample don't mean squat
but when it's the same month after month... WELL

but others can claim how much better this wk is after  only 4 days
Well I don't count -- my math is faulty -- I'm just a troll

are all you that stupid

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digital
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November 08, 2011, 08:55:17 PM
 #4558

Not really sure what your trying to accomplish if not just trolling...

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
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November 08, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
 #4559

my observation of slushes pool was over the last 4 MONTH's

Then there was something broken on your side, because pool is performing as expected in long term (and 4 months is enough "long term").

But you're gone, ok, you switched pools and you're happy. Allright, please stop discussion as there's no point at this anymore. If you still want to elaborate possible connection issues or whatever, please write me PM and don't flood this thread. Thank you for your understanding.

I'm also asking others to not continue this flame, it must be really annoying for others to read pages and pages of this mess.

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November 08, 2011, 09:36:50 PM
 #4560

my observation of slushes pool was over the last 4 MONTH's

Then there was something broken on your side, because pool is performing as expected in long term (and 4 months is enough "long term").

But you're gone, ok, you switched pools and you're happy. Allright, please stop discussion as there's no point at this anymore. If you still want to elaborate possible connection issues or whatever, please write me PM and don't flood this thread. Thank you for your understanding.

I'm also asking others to not continue this flame, it must be really annoying for others to read pages and pages of this mess.

since slush can't take it
go here
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51284.0

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