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Author Topic: [4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool  (Read 4328503 times)
Sargasm
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January 21, 2012, 10:52:24 AM
 #4781

So are low hashrate miners having problems in your current system?

No, they have just higher variance, but it averages out itself (after 1000-10000 shares).

So if their handicap were proportional to their reward from the last round, it wouldn't come CLOSE to covering the pain caused by the shares granted to the high end traders.

Example:

Joe Blow 20ghash earns 200000 shares in round 123 in 200 minutes
Jane Blow 2ghash earns 20000 shares in round 123 in 200 minutes
Slowie mc whybother 50 mhashes earns 50 shares in round 123 in 200 minutes
Scammer mcdouchpants 100 mhashs earns 100 shares in 200 minutes

So in the next round you calculate the estimated hashes per user in the first few minutes:

joe bloe 20ghash starts off with 5000 loyalty shares (5 minute estimated share volume)
jane blow 2ghash starts off with 500 loyalty shares
slowie mc whybother ends up with 12.5 or whatever loyalty shares.
Scammer mcdouchpants gets 25 loyalty shares

So if the next round ends in only two minutes

Joe bloe would get 5000 loyalty shares + 2000 earned shares
jane blow 2ghash would get 500 loyalty shares + 200 earned shares
Slowie mc whybother ends up with 12.5 loyalty shares and somewhere around 4 earned shares on the round
Scammer mcdouchpants would end up with 25 loyalty shares and lets say he's running 20ghash and he pulls 2000 earned shares.

So scammer mcdouchpants would be hurt badly in this situation because his payoff would be only 2/7ths what it would be if there were no loyalty shares.

For anyone STAYING in your pool, their percentage of payments would stay the same (actually they'd see a ~5% increase in earnings).

Pool hoppers would see a ~62% drop in profitability.

Also... people that bail on long blocks would be penalized a bit.

[edit] my point is that the aggregate share proportions amongst loyal users shouldn't be affected much, except because they'll have more shares than anyone that was not laboring in the previous block.  If the very FIRST share recieved was the block hash, the payout would be almost identical to the payout for the previous block.

So if you are a scammer and that block was 2 hours long... you're out of luck.  Because even in 5 minutes, you'd still be looking at 50% of the shares relative to your processing power for the block.  In the upper area it'd make hardly any difference.

Bottom line? You get guaranteed safety from pool hopping and you have to work through one block at a decreased rate.
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January 21, 2012, 11:40:34 AM
 #4782

Let's wait to DGM, ok?

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January 21, 2012, 08:43:28 PM
 #4783

Also... people that bail on long blocks would be penalized a bit.
They already are. There is a time factor in the current scoring system.

I think it works well, but if DGM is what Slush would like to move to, I am sure that will be of ultimate benefit to everyone.

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January 21, 2012, 08:56:42 PM
 #4784

Also... people that bail on long blocks would be penalized a bit.
They already are. There is a time factor in the current scoring system.

I think it works well, but if DGM is what Slush would like to move to, I am sure that will be of ultimate benefit to everyone.

They would additionally be penalized on the following round as well.

Basically, to achieve optimal pay, you'd have to sit tight and not hop.

The result in aggregate would be that all of us that just let our farms hum along without trying to manipulate results would earn 5% more on time/energy.
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January 21, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
 #4785

Let's wait to DGM, ok?

Alrighty Smiley

I appreciate you taking the time to check things out I spent a couple hours normalizing figures and doing analysis.
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January 21, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
 #4786

What's with the connection problems today slush? Server issues? Daemon reboot?

21/01/2012 17:18:31] Result: 85b67ad4 rejected
[21/01/2012 17:18:45] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[21/01/2012 17:18:53] Result: e7dc0e3d rejected
[21/01/2012 17:19:10] LP: New work pushed
[21/01/2012 17:19:15] Disconnected from server
[21/01/2012 17:19:20] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[21/01/2012 17:19:36] Result: 91450389 rejected
[21/01/2012 17:19:58] Result: 5256c7df rejected
[21/01/2012 17:20:20] Result: 7e3975d6 rejected
[21/01/2012 17:20:42] Result: 59c31a98 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:20:43] Result: 0b6fe5fc accepted
[21/01/2012 17:20:43] Connected to server
[21/01/2012 17:20:43] Currently on block: 163270
[21/01/2012 17:20:44] Result: d47f8530 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:20:51] Result: eae38684 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:21:12] Result: 451256be accepted
[21/01/2012 17:21:19] Result: 5242f60a accepted
[21/01/2012 17:21:27] Result: 1109877c accepted
[21/01/2012 17:21:41] Result: 74605c87 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:21:53] Result: 29e32b79 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:22:05] Result: 48982211 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:22:28] Result: 5d581f47 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:22:37] Result: 267e7209 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:23:00] Result: a1b93dd7 rejected
[21/01/2012 17:23:08] Result: b1175713 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:23:08] Result: d9c34e14 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:23:24] Result: f1574a06 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:23:29] Result: faba6153 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:23:34] Result: a82188e4 rejected
[21/01/2012 17:23:38] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle
[21/01/2012 17:24:01] Result: b6216921 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:24:02] Result: 3982401d accepted
[21/01/2012 17:24:07] Result: 31f033c6 accepted
[21/01/2012 17:24:20] Result: 8598509a rejected               
[21/01/2012 17:24:32] Warning: work queue empty, miner is idle

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January 21, 2012, 11:20:28 PM
 #4787

hm ok nevermind I think the issues were caused (believe it or not) by the bitcoin client most likely overloading my home dsl connection both downloading the blockchain and maintaining connections (76+) to the network. Once I closed the client everything was back to normal.


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January 22, 2012, 01:19:59 AM
 #4788

Let's wait to DGM, ok?

Alrighty Smiley

I appreciate you taking the time to check things out I spent a couple hours normalizing figures and doing analysis.

I take it you are not a hopper and don't really understand how it works.  However, slush's scored rewards are calculated differently than a straight up prop pool   So, Hopping rewards less in this pool.  Plus, hoppers like to mine at the highest efficiency possible, so the opportunity cost is higher for this pool than other prop (not scored) pools.  Also, the larger the pool is, the less variance hoppers can benefit from...and this is a large pool.

Reward methods like PPLNS and  DGM do a better job at fairness for the miners than something you just thought of...  Loyalty shares...does that mean I will get emails and a special card to shop with?  Will you get a bumper sticker, too?  I am not sure I understood you proposal, but I feel like we would have to wear some sort of name tag.  You should open up a new thread, explain it better and see if a pool will adopt it...?  You will get mega credit!!!

Code:



   ▄▄███████▄▄       ▐█     █▌         ██          ▐██████▄▄       ▐██████▄          ██         ▐█▄        █▌    ███████▌
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▐██▌   ██▄   ▐██▌    ▐█     █▌     ██████████      ▐█      ▐█▌    ▐█▀██▄        ██████████     ▐█    ▀██▄ █▌       █▌   
 ▀███▄▄ ▀██▄ ▀█▀     ▐█▄   ▄█▌    ██       ██     ▐█   ▄▄██▀     ▐█  ▀██▄     ██       ██    ▐█      ▀███▌       █▌   
   ▀▀█████▀██▄        ▀██████▀    ██         ██    ▐██████▀▀       ▐█   ▀█▌   ██         ██   ▐█        ▀█▌       █▌   
           ▀▀▀

.A Blueprint for Mapping Decentralized Data.


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January 22, 2012, 04:16:09 AM
 #4789

I noticed there are 13 or so Tor workers now where there were 0 just up til recently... Is there a new miner that supports working through Tor?  Or is there some way to mine through Tor using phoenix or cgminer?  Is there any thread more relevant to this that I could be pointed to?  Thanks!

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January 22, 2012, 04:24:08 AM
 #4790

I noticed there are 13 or so Tor workers now where there were 0 just up til recently... Is there a new miner that supports working through Tor?  Or is there some way to mine through Tor using phoenix or cgminer?  Is there any thread more relevant to this that I could be pointed to?  Thanks!
Check the previous page on this thread, or the pool homepage for info on using Tor with this pool.

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January 22, 2012, 04:31:22 AM
 #4791

I noticed there are 13 or so Tor workers now where there were 0 just up til recently... Is there a new miner that supports working through Tor?  Or is there some way to mine through Tor using phoenix or cgminer?  Is there any thread more relevant to this that I could be pointed to?  Thanks!

As far as I know, only poclbm works over Tor nicely. cgminer is too aggressive to work with Tor reasonable enough (I'm not hiding that I'm not happy with cgminer) and when I tested phoenix last time (1.6.x) it has connection issues even on standard connection Wink.

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January 22, 2012, 07:57:29 AM
 #4792

Let's wait to DGM, ok?

Alrighty Smiley

I appreciate you taking the time to check things out I spent a couple hours normalizing figures and doing analysis.

I take it you are not a hopper and don't really understand how it works.  However, slush's scored rewards are calculated differently than a straight up prop pool   So, Hopping rewards less in this pool.  Plus, hoppers like to mine at the highest efficiency possible, so the opportunity cost is higher for this pool than other prop (not scored) pools.  Also, the larger the pool is, the less variance hoppers can benefit from...and this is a large pool.

Reward methods like PPLNS and  DGM do a better job at fairness for the miners than something you just thought of...  Loyalty shares...does that mean I will get emails and a special card to shop with?  Will you get a bumper sticker, too?  I am not sure I understood you proposal, but I feel like we would have to wear some sort of name tag.  You should open up a new thread, explain it better and see if a pool will adopt it...?  You will get mega credit!!!


Lol.  Ok, so I take it you didn't check out the analysis I did proving that pool hopping was affecting pay on short blocks.

And apparently, you're not literate enough to understand my idea, but you know those other ideas work better.

Wow.  I'm in the company of a genius.
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January 22, 2012, 08:05:47 AM
 #4793

I'll explain it to you like you're a five year old... we'll see if that helps.

Ok, jimmy... you see it's like there is a really tough puzzle that has to be figured out and when it is, everyone gets paid a portion of the total work for their efforts.

But there are some bad kids, jimmy.  These kids have figured out that if they only help right at the beginning, statistical averages mean that they will earn ~(this means approximately)20% more than by working on every puzzle till its done.

You see sometimes the puzzles take a long long time and are very difficult.  So by focusing only on brand new puzzles, they increase their chances of hitting a lucky one.

So instead, we're going to calculate a certain number of points that are a different class than the points you earn.  These points will be used to calculate your share and they will be based upon the amount you worked on the LAST puzzle.

This way, when bad kids want to play at your puzzle, since he wasn't there for the last puzzle, he won't make any money and he'll cry.  This is because when you add up the loyalty points and earned points, while the total scores amongst all the players that play every round will be proportionally equivalent , the bad kids score will be less.  If it is a very short round, it will be much less.

That way everyone that likes working hard will make more money!

Isn't that great jimmy?  Now run along and stop being such a fucking idiot.
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January 22, 2012, 08:11:36 AM
 #4794

Doubt this will help you out either... but here are some numbers that prove that miners are getting jacked for 15-20% of earnings on blocks shorter than 12 minutes. on average.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AhhejNMzWwx8dGpYZE9FYXk3d05MQjVDNUxLcHNXZkE&output=html

It proves that either A) pool hoppers are doing better than your massive brain thought they could... or B) for some reason slush is stealing from us, but only on short blocks.
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January 22, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
 #4795

Doubt this will help you out either... but here are some numbers that prove that miners are getting jacked for 15-20% of earnings on blocks shorter than 12 minutes. on average.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AhhejNMzWwx8dGpYZE9FYXk3d05MQjVDNUxLcHNXZkE&output=html

It proves that either A) pool hoppers are doing better than your massive brain thought they could... or B) for some reason slush is stealing from us, but only on short blocks.
Have you stopped to consider that perhaps no one cares? If you post this somewhere other than the main thread, it might get better exposure, and will stop cluttering this one up.

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January 22, 2012, 01:53:32 PM
 #4796



Wow.  I'm in the company of a genius.

Thanks Bro!

Code:



   ▄▄███████▄▄       ▐█     █▌         ██          ▐██████▄▄       ▐██████▄          ██         ▐█▄        █▌    ███████▌
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 ▀███▄▄ ▀██▄ ▀█▀     ▐█▄   ▄█▌    ██       ██     ▐█   ▄▄██▀     ▐█  ▀██▄     ██       ██    ▐█      ▀███▌       █▌   
   ▀▀█████▀██▄        ▀██████▀    ██         ██    ▐██████▀▀       ▐█   ▀█▌   ██         ██   ▐█        ▀█▌       █▌   
           ▀▀▀

.A Blueprint for Mapping Decentralized Data.


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January 22, 2012, 02:00:02 PM
 #4797

Doubt this will help you out either... but here are some numbers that prove that miners are getting jacked for 15-20% of earnings on blocks shorter than 12 minutes. on average.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AhhejNMzWwx8dGpYZE9FYXk3d05MQjVDNUxLcHNXZkE&output=html

It proves that either A) pool hoppers are doing better than your massive brain thought they could... or B) for some reason slush is stealing from us, but only on short blocks.

However, you make more on the long rounds for blocks greater than 12 minutes. on average...  Didn't you read my post? 

For you, let's make a new thread, but please vent there?  deal?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60706.0

Code:



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 ▀███▄▄ ▀██▄ ▀█▀     ▐█▄   ▄█▌    ██       ██     ▐█   ▄▄██▀     ▐█  ▀██▄     ██       ██    ▐█      ▀███▌       █▌   
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           ▀▀▀

.A Blueprint for Mapping Decentralized Data.


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January 22, 2012, 02:04:11 PM
 #4798

but here are some numbers that prove that miners are getting jacked for 15-20% of earnings on blocks shorter than 12 minutes. on average.

No, your math is incorrect, basically because you didn't considered hashrate change. Again, there was a lot discussion about it and, honestly, I trust Meni's calculations much more than yours. You obviously DIDN'T read his paper, so please do it and stop spamming here. If you want to continue in the discussion, please open separate thread. I'm sorry that I'm angry, but I'm little tired of such "smart guys" entering the discussion in the middle, without reading the papers, math and discussion history.

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January 22, 2012, 02:17:13 PM
 #4799

DGM is my favorite non-prop reward method, however, there are different configurations of the variables in the current marketplace.  Here are Ozco.in Double Geometric Variables:

f=-0.25, c=0.2, o=0.8More

Information about this method can be found here:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39497.0

Eclipse I think is different?

Slush, Have you thought of the DGV's you plan to use?

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cablepair
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January 22, 2012, 03:41:37 PM
 #4800

Slush

just want to voice my opinion here, I mined my very first Bitcoin on your pool (and sold it for 0.85 cents! ) and mined probably in total 200 coins with you.

I personally think DGM sucks and will become less popular as the difficulty continues to go up.
Yes it's pool hop proof and "fair" but only really fair to a person if they want to dedicate themselves to mining with that pool and that pool only 24/7

I like your modified proportional score system - a lot of people do and I think you should stay with it , and if you really have to change, change it to a pure PPS like BTCGuild is doing.


thank you for listening Smiley
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