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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3931765 times)
sadpandatech
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October 19, 2011, 07:19:23 PM
 #4001

Agree btcguild is not behind this.

So under your logic that means when deepbit and btcguild was getting ddosed it must of been slush that was doing it?

or when guild c and D go down its A's fault.

Nice

Slush said btcguild was somehow related to the attack, not that Eleuthria himself sanctioned it. I don't believe Eleuthria would personally be involved nor do I believe that slush just made this up. My theory is a clan of botnet herding btcguild users thought they would get more coins by taking out the opposition.  It's a theory based on no evidence at this point.

BTW people solo mine during this outage. If everyone hops onto btcguild they will have a dangerous amount of network power.


Better yet, everybody should hop to a small pool.  Everybody jumping to BTC Guild ends up screwing over our regular users.  I've been removing servers from our clusters the last month due to shrinking speeds/profits.  We cannot handle 2+ TH/sec like we used to, because it isn't worth keeping up the hardware at this time.  That's why I'm looking at cancelling signups (private pool) or a major payout structure change:  Get the botnets off and keep our regular users with a stable pool.

So please:  If you mine on Slush, Deepbit, or BTC Guild, set your backup to a SMALL pool.  Not only is it more reliable (the major pool outages are often related), but it avoids putting unexpected heavier load on an already large pool.  And of course it's safer for the network to have the hash split between a larger number of nodes.


  All smart moves imho, m8.  SMPPS with a lil bit of the buffer added back in as a bonus to faithfuls when/if it grows over a certain size. After the pool takes its cut of course. ;p  And, yea an 'invite' type setup might not hurt in the short term. Everyone else can kiss off or find a new home. hard ballin' but may end up being not optional if things continue as they are now..

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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[Tycho]
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October 19, 2011, 07:21:49 PM
 #4002

What I have seen is Eleuthria is very fast at banning botnets from using his pool and making it so they can't DDOS his pool.
I want to mention that "banning" some subnets or IPs via software or normal router/loadbalancer can't do anything for protection against serious DDoS.
Some of those attacks were over 2 mpps, with that flow almost ANY hosting provider will just nullroute or disable IPs under attack. (I think that currently BTCguild uses same hosting service as deepbit, so I can say that for sure).

And from what I've seen his pool is always the last large pool standing when the other 2-3 large ones go down.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
eleuthria
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October 19, 2011, 07:24:46 PM
 #4003

What I have seen is Eleuthria is very fast at banning botnets from using his pool and making it so they can't DDOS his pool.
I want to mention that "banning" some subnets or IPs via software or normal router/loadbalancer can't do anything for protection against serious DDoS.
Some of those attacks were over 2 mpps, with that flow almost ANY hosting provider will just nullroute or disable IPs under attack. (I think that currently BTCguild uses same hosting service as deepbit, so I can say that for sure).

And from what I've seen his pool is always the last large pool standing when the other 2-3 large ones go down.

Like Tycho said, we use the same ISP.  I know he dealt with them heavily back in June when the first round of attacks (that I know of, but I only started in April) hit.

They've nullrouted 3 of our frontend servers already, its just a matter of putting up new IPs in front and contacting the ISP telling them whats happening so they hopefully dont' nullroute every IP on your account.

The only reason we were hit the least in the last round is because we were able to get a large chunk of IPs blocked prior to the attack.  That's helping this time, but as anybody can see, it isn't doing much for BTC Guild's pool servers at the moment (website is back up mostly though).

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
martychubbs
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October 19, 2011, 08:55:02 PM
 #4004

BTCGuild has maintained, and even gained, hash rate during the recent DDoSs of their biggest competitors...smoking gun? Huh
Nachtwind
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October 19, 2011, 08:57:13 PM
 #4005

BTCGuild has maintained, and even gained, hash rate during the recent DDoSs of their biggest competitors...smoking gun? Huh

Honestly.. if you argue like that i could point at several incidents where slush or deepbit would have been the only logical aggressors....
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October 19, 2011, 09:04:01 PM
 #4006

BTCGuild has maintained, and even gained, hash rate during the recent DDoSs of their biggest competitors...smoking gun? Huh

Deepbit has maintained, and even gained hash rate during the recent DDoS of their biggest competitors...Slush has maintained, and even gained hash rate during the recent DDoS of their biggest competitors...{ad nausem}

With both clients (cgminer/phoenix) and proxies supporting multiple pools/backup/etc, that conclusion is completely...... wrong..
DiabloD3
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October 19, 2011, 09:34:53 PM
 #4007

Dear thread:

Accuse pools of ddossing other pools again, I will start giving theymos names to ban.

Signed,
Mods who have better things to do than manage children

DeathAndTaxes
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October 19, 2011, 10:16:55 PM
 #4008


Remember hashing rate stats are always backwards looking. 
Computing by looking at either # of shares per last x minutes or number of blocks per last x hours/days.

For example btc-watch shows Slush's as 1.28GH/s and slowly declining which obviously is also incorrect.
allinvain
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October 19, 2011, 10:23:26 PM
 #4009

*Sigh* These stupid DDoS attacks are getting on my nerves. I wish there was some way to distribute (ie P2P) a mining network.


Eveofwar
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October 19, 2011, 10:24:59 PM
 #4010

*Sigh* These stupid DDoS attacks are getting on my nerves. I wish there was some way to distribute (ie P2P) a mining network.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.0
allinvain
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October 19, 2011, 10:30:32 PM
 #4011

*Sigh* These stupid DDoS attacks are getting on my nerves. I wish there was some way to distribute (ie P2P) a mining network.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.0

Awesome! Thanks Smiley I'm going to give it a whirl and if it works reliably it's bye bye mining pools for me.

sd
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October 19, 2011, 11:21:17 PM
 #4012

*Sigh* These stupid DDoS attacks are getting on my nerves. I wish there was some way to distribute (ie P2P) a mining network.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.0

Awesome! Thanks Smiley I'm going to give it a whirl and if it works reliably it's bye bye mining pools for me.


Distributed mining is a wonderful idea, but I'd like to know if it works as well as any of the big 3 pools in practice. If it does why isn't everyone doing it?
slush
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October 19, 2011, 11:58:46 PM
 #4013

Diablo: I don't believe that you're going to ban somebody who's here everyday almost a year and having pretty good reputation, just because one sentence "btcguild is *somehow* *related* to those attacks" (I didn't tell "btcguild is doing those attacks") and also without listening any evidence for my claims. Trust me that I'm not that guy who's loudly smearing my competitors without any proof.

I just got back to normal Internet (I was writing from my android phone before) and it's 2am here, so give me some time to explain things.

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October 20, 2011, 12:35:27 AM
 #4014

For all pool users: This attack is worse than attacks before. Actually it's probably a tenth DDoS to pool in it's almost year history (I didn't counted them carefully and you probably even don't know about small attacks which I was able to handle somehow without public attention).

This attack is worse because Linode LLC, server provider for pool infrastructure, frozen my account for periodical violation of their ToS. I can access pools servers, but I was asked to not start another balancers with public IP because those attacks are harming datacenter infrastructure.

It means that I cannot start pool at this infrastructure and I need to find another provider. Which is pretty hard once I start asking to their anti DDoS policies. Back in July I was in touch with Rackspace, company providing custom solutions for big enterprises and even they told me that they cannot handle such large scale attack for some reasonable price (we're talking about thousands of US dolars monthly just for anti-DDoS protection). Posts of some users above are really naive, there's NO way how to handle those attacks just by banning some subnets.

Fighting attacks become much worse with falling bitcoin price, because even if I have 1/3 of all network hashrate and 2% fee I simply cannot pay for any real solution which really helps to handle attacks. Last week I tried to use services of one DDoS mitigation company (the same as deepbit is using), but they had pretty high ratio of false positives, so although I paid them big money for a single day protection, almost 40% of users were still unable to mine on the pool. So this isn't the way to go.

Since tomorrow I'll try harder to find any server provider which at least don't shut down pool infrastructure on first DDoS attack, but I cannot promise that I'll succeed. There's no point in running a service which is every week for one day offline thanks to attacks.

So far it's 1:0 for attackers. However I don't want to capitulate too easily; I spent insane amount of time and energy in inventing and running my pool and I don't want to simply disappear, because I really believe in long-term Bitcoin success (small note: people, don't get scared with current panic on market, it's just an oposite of July's insane price peak). I "invented" (maybe it's better to say "realized") first really usable and widely used Bitcoin pool ever and now I feel again that I'm on the track of another innovation of Bitcoin mining, which will be DDoS resistant yet easy to use and with steady payouts like normal share based pools.

Technical note: Because the downtime of mining.bitcoin.cz will be probably more significant than anytime before, I'll wait until all mined blocks will be matured and then will send all balances of users to their wallets. Don't worry, I'm not running away with your hardly mined coins!

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AFK :/


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October 20, 2011, 12:49:43 AM
 #4015

Thank you for looking into this, you've always been quick at solving problems with the pool and I am certain you will find a solution.  Cheesy

BitterTea
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October 20, 2011, 01:05:11 AM
 #4016

now I feel again that I'm on the track of another innovation of Bitcoin mining, which will be DDoS resistant yet easy to use and with steady payouts like normal share based pools

Something along the lines of p2pool, or another peer to peer mining pool? I feel that such a pool is going to be huge for bitcoin security and trustworthiness.
allinvain
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October 20, 2011, 01:08:50 AM
 #4017

slush I hope you come back! Your pool was the first pool I mined for and I've been using your pool ever since even though many times I could've moved to pools that offer 0% fees.

If it's something along the lines of p2pool that would be super cool.

Wishing you the best!


Keninishna
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October 20, 2011, 01:11:40 AM
 #4018

Everyone is welcome to come slush around in our pool for asspennies.
dishwara
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Truth may get delay, but NEVER fails


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October 20, 2011, 01:16:25 AM
 #4019

Slush:

What abt this? He too not fitting your budget or policy?


Tycho,

PM me if I can help you by hosting a box for you here at an AT&T data center.

We have DDoS protection on our Internet connection. 
DeathAndTaxes
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October 20, 2011, 01:44:09 AM
 #4020

I do believe the long term future of mining is technology like p2pool.  Looking at the protocol I think it would be possible to use p2pool to form distributed getwork and validation "engine" and still have a conventional front end for reward issuance (which would provide for alternative payout arrangements; score based, PPLNS, PPS, etc).

I feel really bad for you Slush.  It is obvious you have put your heart and soul into this pool.  To have it taken down by a cowardly enemy that has massive numerical superiority is sad.
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