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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [150+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 4322196 times)
slush
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October 23, 2011, 01:04:03 PM
 #4121

Am i missing something? Merged mining has changed the whole game ..increasing BTC mining profit by 42%.

You didn't miss anything special, except that such huge income from NMC will get lower by time, because

a) NMC difficulty is climbing up
b) When more users on pool claim their NMC address, your share on NMC will be lower. Currently only 1/3 of pool members have filled NMC wallet, so your income is something like 3x higher than it should be thanks to your hashrate.

But yes, so far it's pretty nice boost :-)

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slush
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October 23, 2011, 01:08:11 PM
 #4122

Well I tried it, but it seems that my takings on BTC is about half that of other pools although I do have additional NMCs.   Not sure if I am purely unlucky or not.  Will try it again and do another comparison.

You didn't respond me my questions about possible connection issues or higher stale rate. If your connection doesn't have any serious troubles, then it's just a luck. Thanks to calculations done by cosurgi, pool is performing as expected in long term, so I don't worry about bad performance in last two days (yes, it was lower than it should be, it's without a debate).

worldinacoin
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October 23, 2011, 01:14:26 PM
 #4123

Thanks for the advice, my connection should be alright as the rigs are in datacenters.  Will continue and check over a longer period.  I don't believe I am always unlucky Smiley.  Thanks for the chance to mine extra NMCs Smiley

Well I tried it, but it seems that my takings on BTC is about half that of other pools although I do have additional NMCs.   Not sure if I am purely unlucky or not.  Will try it again and do another comparison.

You didn't respond me my questions about possible connection issues or higher stale rate. If your connection doesn't have any serious troubles, then it's just a luck. Thanks to calculations done by cosurgi, pool is performing as expected in long term, so I don't worry about bad performance in last two days (yes, it was lower than it should be, it's without a debate).
slush
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October 23, 2011, 01:25:49 PM
 #4124

Why would anyone NOT be mining on slush's pool right now?

Forgot to say that 100% agree with you ;-)

dishwara
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October 23, 2011, 01:51:59 PM
 #4125

Tor is a good & brilliant choice.
It may not be good for file p2p downloading, coz of huge continuous heavy bandwidth requirement.
But may be good for mining. coz their is no need for huge bandwidth for mining.
Only problem is needing instant continuous connection. 

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Thralen
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October 23, 2011, 02:15:19 PM
 #4126

Slush:

Is there an issue with payout on BTC right now? Just curious because I had my threshold set to .25 and it was working fine but... Sometime overnight I passed that threshold on 'confirmed reward' (I think it was probably 20 or more confirmations ago) and it is just sitting there, showing in the the my account section but not sending. Since we are down to 10 confirmations left on that 8 hour block from yesterday and the .25 was confirmed and exceeded before that block I think it has been sitting there for a while. I was just wondering if you had set a minimum threshold or if there might be another issue. I just don't recall it taking so long in the past so thought I'd ask.

Thralen

Supporting bitcoin as best I can with 1. mining, 2. buying with bitcoin, 3. selling (or trying to) for bitcoin. If you make a donation to:  1MahzUUEYJrZ4VbPRm2h5itGZKEguGVZK1  I'll get it into circulation.
mitchel
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October 23, 2011, 03:18:24 PM
 #4127

Slush:

Is there an issue with payout on BTC right now? Just curious because I had my threshold set to .25 and it was working fine but... Sometime overnight I passed that threshold on 'confirmed reward' (I think it was probably 20 or more confirmations ago) and it is just sitting there, showing in the the my account section but not sending. Since we are down to 10 confirmations left on that 8 hour block from yesterday and the .25 was confirmed and exceeded before that block I think it has been sitting there for a while. I was just wondering if you had set a minimum threshold or if there might be another issue. I just don't recall it taking so long in the past so thought I'd ask.

Thralen

I second this post.  I to am having a problem with payout...it has gone .33 over the payout threshold without paying out.  This is BTC only though as i have had 2 NMC payouts in the last 12 hours where i have had no BTC payouts.
sadpandatech
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October 23, 2011, 05:23:29 PM
 #4128

Tor is a good & brilliant choice.
It may not be good for file p2p downloading, coz of huge continuous heavy bandwidth requirement.
But may be good for mining. coz their is no need for huge bandwidth for mining.
Only problem is needing instant continuous connection. 

  Definetly agree on the badnwidth issue.  On the connection issue; you are able to pick your exit nodes which should allow one to find nodes that have the best connection between them and the pool of choice.


  Cheers

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Tartarus
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October 23, 2011, 05:44:01 PM
 #4129

Highly experimental feature; site: lcir2ce5utha5xoo.onion, mining: lcir2ce5utha5xoo.onion:8332

Note: At this moment you need to turn off long polling on profile page for mining over tor. There's 30-minute cache of settings for already used worker in pool core, so I recommend you to create blank new worker "tor" with LP disabled. If there will be enough interest, I'll modify pool to support LP & Ntime rolling over Tor as well (which dramatically improve Tor mining experience).

Let me know if you're interested!

So I guess for now we throw torify in front of the miner and if this takes off wait for (or help with) patching miners to try and proxy .onion domains?  Or maybe I should say, adding a new user, turning off LP and doing torify python phoenix.py ... Just Works.  And cgminer uses curl which supports SOCKS (and of course see the Tor FAQ about SOCKS and potential privacy issues) so it should Just Work too, but I haven't fiddled with that yet.

Find the above useful?  Send tips to 1KjoJihf7GWHWeQFhDmaw4g7xorkmD13u
Jack of Diamonds
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October 23, 2011, 05:52:38 PM
 #4130

What do you think about paying protection money to a hypothetical multi-gbps attacker
at a rate of say -50 - -80% of what a datacenter will take for professional anti-DDoS/mitigation services?

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Thralen
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October 23, 2011, 06:12:48 PM
 #4131

What do you think about paying protection money to a hypothetical multi-gbps attacker
at a rate of say -50 - -80% of what a datacenter will take for professional anti-DDoS/mitigation services?

Logical problem here. That might work for the first, but what happens when the second, third, fourth, ad nauseum shows up and wants their cut. Won't work.

thralen

Supporting bitcoin as best I can with 1. mining, 2. buying with bitcoin, 3. selling (or trying to) for bitcoin. If you make a donation to:  1MahzUUEYJrZ4VbPRm2h5itGZKEguGVZK1  I'll get it into circulation.
Jack of Diamonds
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October 23, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
 #4132

What do you think about paying protection money to a hypothetical multi-gbps attacker
at a rate of say -50 - -80% of what a datacenter will take for professional anti-DDoS/mitigation services?

Logical problem here. That might work for the first, but what happens when the second, third, fourth, ad nauseum shows up and wants their cut. Won't work.

thralen

10-100gbps attacker has methods to deter other, smaller parties from conflicting with his financial interests.

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notawake
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October 23, 2011, 06:17:59 PM
 #4133

What do you think about paying protection money to a hypothetical multi-gbps attacker
at a rate of say -50 - -80% of what a datacenter will take for professional anti-DDoS/mitigation services?
That sounds like a terrible idea.


Logical problem here. That might work for the first, but what happens when the second, third, fourth, ad nauseum shows up and wants their cut. Won't work.

thralen

Technically speaking, it's not just multiple attackers. If someone like slush went that route, all each attacker has to do is create more attacker identities and keep threatening him until he goes bankrupt/quits.

10-100gbps attacker has methods to deter other, smaller parties from conflicting with his financial interests.

I suppose you could hire an attacker (perhaps also with performance incentives) to attack the other attackers, but there's a huge legal risk there and the attacker makes profits that can be reinvested at a later time into attacking slush, meaning the attacker has a better position against slush over time. Also keep in mind that the attacker is likely stealing resources (i.e. using trojans/malware to steal computer and internet access for a botnet) and slush may not be able to steal, so a successful strategy for slush would probably focus on avoidance/hiding rather than interaction with DDOS attackers.

I think the tor idea is a much better idea. It can probably be extended into giving out an onion address to each user and hiding the pool server's IPs. If there's a DDOS against one onion address and attack packets reach the mining IPs, just nullroute that onion address. Only issues would be the web server IP (or onion address) would probably have to be known to many for signups, beginner info, etc. and reliance on the tor network. Tor does have some DDOS protections built-in, as described here.

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Eveofwar
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October 23, 2011, 06:19:02 PM
 #4134

What do you think about paying protection money to a hypothetical multi-gbps attacker
at a rate of say -50 - -80% of what a datacenter will take for professional anti-DDoS/mitigation services?

Logical problem here. That might work for the first, but what happens when the second, third, fourth, ad nauseum shows up and wants their cut. Won't work.

thralen

10-100gbps attacker has methods to deter other, smaller parties from conflicting with his financial interests.

So if I'm a 100 gbps attacker, and you are a 100 gbps attacker...how do you deter me from destroying slush ?

Do you have my IP ?  Do you have my contact info ?  Do you have anyway of causing any detriment to me ?

Nope.
Thralen
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October 23, 2011, 06:21:13 PM
 #4135

What do you think about paying protection money to a hypothetical multi-gbps attacker
at a rate of say -50 - -80% of what a datacenter will take for professional anti-DDoS/mitigation services?

Logical problem here. That might work for the first, but what happens when the second, third, fourth, ad nauseum shows up and wants their cut. Won't work.

thralen

10-100gbps attacker has methods to deter other, smaller parties from conflicting with his financial interests.

And you think that currently and in the future there is only one of that size. You think that he would go out of his way to stop others trying the same? Remember, no honor amongst thieves and someone running a botnet of that size is surely a thief...

Note I didn't even begin to cover the moral issue there. I wouldn't mine at a pool that was paying off attackers. I bet lots of others wouldn't either. I think the Tor option is a much better route to follow as mentioned by Notawake.

Supporting bitcoin as best I can with 1. mining, 2. buying with bitcoin, 3. selling (or trying to) for bitcoin. If you make a donation to:  1MahzUUEYJrZ4VbPRm2h5itGZKEguGVZK1  I'll get it into circulation.
mitchel
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October 23, 2011, 06:36:13 PM
 #4136

so...is there a problem with payouts?
Jack of Diamonds
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October 23, 2011, 06:45:37 PM
 #4137

A malicious attacker needs not to target the pool or hidden service;
since TOR is a relatively low bandwidth network it takes very few resources to grind all active onion routers to a halt.

All active router info is publicly available at directory server.
Every router merely knows the last and next hop, the origin of attack cannot be traced and it only shows up as large amounts of traffic & appears as a normal router

DoS against the entire TOR network is also cheaper than a well hosted single site with high bandwidth.
Even a 20gbps attack would render the network unusably slow. It is a brute force method but it will achieve the goal & make a pool unreachable.

It only needs to last as long as people switch to other pools, and if they come back, target the network again.

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Thralen
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October 23, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
 #4138

A malicious attacker needs not to target the pool or hidden service;
since TOR is a relatively low bandwidth network it takes very few resources to grind all active onion routers to a halt.

All active router info is publicly available at directory server.
Every router merely knows the last and next hop, the origin of attack cannot be traced and it only shows up as large amounts of traffic & appears as a normal router

DoS against the entire TOR network is also cheaper than a well hosted single site with high bandwidth.
Even a 20gbps attack would render the network unusably slow. It is a brute force method but it will achieve the goal & make a pool unreachable.

It only needs to last as long as people switch to other pools, and if they come back, target the network again.

So obviously, your "solution" which is, in essence, advocating for extortion, is the way to go? *shakes head*

Be careful, next step would be a bitcoin mafia and the next thing you know people will be waking up with the heads of servers in bed with them...

In history, if you look for it, traditionally when you give in to extortion they then try to extort more, and more... and then some more. Until there is nothing left. You can always count on human nature, so long as you know that human nature includes a massive helping of greed.

Thralen

Supporting bitcoin as best I can with 1. mining, 2. buying with bitcoin, 3. selling (or trying to) for bitcoin. If you make a donation to:  1MahzUUEYJrZ4VbPRm2h5itGZKEguGVZK1  I'll get it into circulation.
Jack of Diamonds
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October 23, 2011, 07:27:11 PM
 #4139

Mt. Gox's strategy with a few alterations would be perfect from a financial standpoint (maximum profit, lowest expenses, and highest uptime)

Pay ~30% of Prolexic's charged rates to the biggest attacker, with an agreement of keeping other attackers away.
If 'offender' breaks the deal by demanding a bigger cut or by not being hostile towards other attackers, you siphon the extra to Prolexic and give nothing to the 'offender'.

'Offender' is forced to choose between earning $0 per month or convincing you to accept back the earlier rate, maybe lower.

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mitchel
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October 23, 2011, 07:30:22 PM
 #4140

so....is slush aware of the payout issue?

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