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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 775143 times)
minerpumpkin
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August 13, 2013, 08:14:57 PM
 #4021

I'm just wondering whether there may be some way of sabotaging the pool... 20 TH/s off the network...
I know, the idea is old and there shouldn't be ways of doing this, but... well, you never know...

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westkybitcoins
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August 13, 2013, 08:58:26 PM
 #4022

This rash of extreme delays between blocks, both BTC and NMC, seems like it's starting to become a statistical anomaly. A "that-guy-just-won-the-lottery-for-the-5th-time" level anomaly.

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Until it gets to about 1000%, it's not really that unlikely.
When you are finding hundreds of blocks a month, you'll hit really slow ones as well as really quick ones.
i.e. at a pool doing 20TH/s, if you get to 22hrs then yeah you are into rare territory for slow block finding.
Rare, but not impossible.

It's the Namecoin delays that make me suspicious. Namecoin blocks are pretty much solved independently of Bitcoin blocks.

So sure, a single long delay, even approaching a day, for a Bitcoin block, or only a few Bitcoin blocks in a couple days, I can understand. But to have no Bitcoin block for that long a period, and simultaneously have multiple long stretches between Namecoin blocks, which hit 50% for us in about an hour? I'm not saying something IS wrong, just that statistically, that adds another level of improbability.

Currently...

Bitcoin: 12h:09m (97.44% CDF)
Namecoin: 3h:39m (91.40% CDF, and that follows 8 blocks where the lowest CDF was 69.65%, average of 83.07%)

No need to panic, of course... time will tell if there's a problem or not. But this warrants watching.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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August 13, 2013, 08:59:56 PM
 #4023

This rash of extreme delays between blocks, both BTC and NMC, seems like it's starting to become a statistical anomaly. A "that-guy-just-won-the-lottery-for-the-5th-time" level anomaly.

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Until it gets to about 1000%, it's not really that unlikely.
When you are finding hundreds of blocks a month, you'll hit really slow ones as well as really quick ones.
i.e. at a pool doing 20TH/s, if you get to 22hrs then yeah you are into rare territory for slow block finding.
Rare, but not impossible.

It's the Namecoin delays that make me suspicious. Namecoin blocks are pretty much solved independently of Bitcoin blocks.

So sure, a single long delay, even approaching a day, for a Bitcoin block, or only a few Bitcoin blocks in a couple days, I can understand. But to have no Bitcoin block for that long a period, and simultaneously have multiple long stretches between Namecoin blocks, which hit 50% for us in about an hour? I'm not saying something IS wrong, just that statistically, that adds another level of improbability.

Currently...

Bitcoin: 12h:09m (97.44% CDF)
Namecoin: 3h:39m (91.40% CDF, and that follows 8 blocks where the lowest CDF was 69.65%, average of 83.07%)

No need to panic, of course... time will tell if there's a problem or not. But this warrants watching.

Are you also going to get concerned about the 2 weeks of above-average block finding we've had just before this 3-day dry stretch?
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August 13, 2013, 09:19:20 PM
 #4024

Are you also going to get concerned about the 2 weeks of above-average block finding we've had just before this 3-day dry stretch?

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure there's nothing to worry about.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
DrHaribo
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August 13, 2013, 09:19:39 PM
 #4025

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Last time we hit some bad luck I paid organofcorti to look into it, as some users believed it was statistically improbable. He's very good with statistics and probability and did a very thorough analysis which you can read here:

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/05/131-bitminter-and-luck.html

If you really want to look into the bad luck we had just now, please do what he did, don't just look at 3 unlucky blocks and jump to conclusions.

Also note how we paid better than most pools even when we had a long period of bad luck. Low fee, transaction fee income and namecoins make a big difference.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
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August 13, 2013, 09:33:38 PM
 #4026

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Last time we hit some bad luck I paid organofcorti to look into it, as some users believed it was statistically improbable. He's very good with statistics and probability and did a very thorough analysis which you can read here:

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/05/131-bitminter-and-luck.html

If you really want to look into the bad luck we had just now, please do what he did, don't just look at 3 unlucky blocks and jump to conclusions.

Also note how we paid better than most pools even when we had a long period of bad luck. Low fee, transaction fee income and namecoins make a big difference.


I apologize if you got the impression I was trying to badmouth the pool. I chose BitMinter for a reason, and the fee arrangement was a key component of that. A little bad luck isn't going to chase me away (as I've stated before in this forum;) that's simply not mathematically sound.

That said, thanks for the link.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
Jayjay04
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August 13, 2013, 09:48:49 PM
 #4027

The proposition I made for adding 2 columns to the stats page will probably help many people understand the bad and good sequence we're facing... and put it in perspective.


http://imgur.com/piXw6qw

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Nemo1024
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August 13, 2013, 10:03:20 PM
 #4028

The proposition I made for adding 2 columns to the stats page will probably help many people understand the bad and good sequence we're facing... and put it in perspective.


http://imgur.com/piXw6qw

+1
Good suggestion!


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“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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August 13, 2013, 10:22:45 PM
 #4029

I apologize if you got the impression I was trying to badmouth the pool.

No, not at all. I'm just trying to answer all the questions that pop up when we have bad luck. As usual I also have a couple of users sending support requests calling me a thief because today's payout was lower than usual. I try to explain how the reward system works, but not everyone want to listen..

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
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August 13, 2013, 11:07:48 PM
 #4030

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
philipma1957
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August 13, 2013, 11:52:33 PM
 #4031

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).



 yeah , but how many coins did you cost the doctors pool?

  Not to sound nasty but the doc has 16-20th on line and if 10th of it was using your client.    you 1/2 our real hash thus the bad luck was directly caused by your error.

 I also realize that maybe only 1th , 2th of our pool was using your bad software. Your admittance not mine.  I also realize that your bug was introduced at the end of the 37 mill difficulty.

 Making it all the worst.     I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment.   We will go from 37 mill to 50 mill in a day. 

If your error was done on day one of an adjustment  instead of day nine of an adjustment   it would always cause less damage.   I mine mining a while and I am tired of all the little slip ups made costing myself and others money. 

So I ask you how much hash power did you take out on our pool >  How long has the damaged occurred for 1 day 2 days.  Does it match very closely our so called bad luck streak? 

Let be generous and say it was an accident. It goes to show miners that even a slip thing like an update by a client can be used as a weapon against a pool.
 So always be careful about updating your gear . The last 30 hours we have 2 blocks should have 8-9.  If your error did damage  which it did,  how many of the 6-7 lost blocks are on you.  care to guess?

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

██     Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to :

1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr

 
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August 14, 2013, 12:08:16 AM
 #4032

We have to expect that miner client bugs will happen. That's why I always post a link to the previous version when I post about a new version of my client.

If you upgrade and something is broken, downgrade again and report the bug. Smiley

Thanks for the quick fix, ckolivas.

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August 14, 2013, 12:15:41 AM
 #4033

yeah , but how many coins did you cost the doctors pool?

  Not to sound nasty but the doc has 16-20th on line and if 10th of it was using your client.    you 1/2 our real hash thus the bad luck was directly caused by your error.

 I also realize that maybe only 1th , 2th of our pool was using your bad software. Your admittance not mine.  I also realize that your bug was introduced at the end of the 37 mill difficulty.

 Making it all the worst.     I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment.   We will go from 37 mill to 50 mill in a day. 

If your error was done on day one of an adjustment  instead of day nine of an adjustment   it would always cause less damage.   I mine mining a while and I am tired of all the little slip ups made costing myself and others money. 

So I ask you how much hash power did you take out on our pool >  How long has the damaged occurred for 1 day 2 days.  Does it match very closely our so called bad luck streak? 

Let be generous and say it was an accident. It goes to show miners that even a slip thing like an update by a client can be used as a weapon against a pool.
 So always be careful about updating your gear . The last 30 hours we have 2 blocks should have 8-9.  If your error did damage  which it did,  how many of the 6-7 lost blocks are on you.  care to guess?

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

All I can say is wow to that sort of response... just plain wow... I mean what proportion automatically upgrade without checking what happens on upgrade... seriously... wow I mean wow. The new version wasn't even up for 12 hours before I posted a fix. Seriously wow... You got some anger towards someone but it is seriously fucking misguided if directed at me.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
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August 14, 2013, 12:29:56 AM
 #4034

...
Somebody forgot their meds today ...

Unless you were foolish enough to start cgminer 3.3.3 and not notice the errors spewing across your screen and thus switch back 3.3.2 or older ... yep it may have not been mining ...

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
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August 14, 2013, 12:32:56 AM
 #4035

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).



 yeah , but how many coins did you cost the doctors pool?

  Not to sound nasty but the doc has 16-20th on line and if 10th of it was using your client.    you 1/2 our real hash thus the bad luck was directly caused by your error.

 I also realize that maybe only 1th , 2th of our pool was using your bad software. Your admittance not mine.  I also realize that your bug was introduced at the end of the 37 mill difficulty.

 Making it all the worst.     I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment.   We will go from 37 mill to 50 mill in a day.  

If your error was done on day one of an adjustment  instead of day nine of an adjustment   it would always cause less damage.   I mine mining a while and I am tired of all the little slip ups made costing myself and others money.  

So I ask you how much hash power did you take out on our pool >  How long has the damaged occurred for 1 day 2 days.  Does it match very closely our so called bad luck streak?  

Let be generous and say it was an accident. It goes to show miners that even a slip thing like an update by a client can be used as a weapon against a pool.
 So always be careful about updating your gear . The last 30 hours we have 2 blocks should have 8-9.  If your error did damage  which it did,  how many of the 6-7 lost blocks are on you.  care to guess?

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

Your reaction was uncalled for!

If people want to be update their miners to the latest version immediately, there are risks.
When upgrading, people should monitor the results and notice what differences their hardware are exhibiting.

If you are having issues with other vendors direct your anger at them, as far as your behavior.

You Sir, not to sound nasty as you put it, are a complete douche bag and that is being generous.
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August 14, 2013, 12:35:18 AM
 #4036

Guys, take it easy.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
westkybitcoins
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Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!


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August 14, 2013, 12:43:50 AM
 #4037

Looks like a spike in difficulty helped delay this block. 50.8 million. Wow.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
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ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
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The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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August 14, 2013, 01:02:35 AM
 #4038

I'd like to thank SgtSpike for finding that block.

Bought From Yochdogx2, Alexmat, SgtSpike, David_Benz, Beaflag VonRathburg, Slaveindebt, Cptmooseinc, Coinhoarder

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August 14, 2013, 01:08:47 AM
 #4039

... I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment ...

 Shame on you for this post.

 Incredible.
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August 14, 2013, 01:44:51 AM
 #4040

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).


 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

Feel free to write your own mining client. Nothing stops you. Everything is open source. It is called 'fix it yourself, if you're not happy of the software GIVEN to you'.

ckolivas is one of the most generous person to share his technical skills freely to the whole community. If he did receive 1 BTC per cgminer copy used or just received a small donation for each hour spent to improve cgminer for the benefits of all his users, he would be awesomely rich.

The hero title he has is well merited. In my mind, he is playing an important role for mainstream BTC adoption with his contribution.

I hope that you calm down a bit, realised that you might have overreacted and offer him your sincere apologizes.

The recent pool bad luck has nothing to do with cgminer.

BTC: 1ABewnrZgCds7w9RH43NwMHX5Px6ex5uNR
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