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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 775436 times)
matt4054
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May 25, 2013, 09:59:47 PM
 #3161

I browsed through 20-something pages of block history to estimate that there are less that 2% (it was 2% at the time, before 1% fee) orphan blocks, so I would mainly see it as as the "interests" on the pre-pay advance + "insurance" for orphaned blocks. It depends on your expectation.

Are you sure you counted "orphan" blocks? Remember, stale blocks do not count and even with the perk, you do not get BTC for stales. I believe actual orphan blocks are much, much less than 1.5%.

Yes, I counted only the orphans and not the stale ones. But I think you misread my post* because I was saying indeed that the orphans ratio was less than 2%, or even much less than 1.5%, so basically I agree with you.

My point was that the pool was worth a 1.5% donation anyway (full disclosure I am only donating at 0.5% right now but I was at 2.5% with the perks enabled, prior to the 1% fee).

*edit: either misread my post or my grammar was too broken, sorry about that

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philipma1957
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May 26, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
 #3162

Hi Doc not to beat a dead horse but any chance you will have litecoin pool in the future.

  Since asics are shipping and diff gets higher my gpus will not cut it for bitcoins.  I understand why bitcoins are your top priority ,but if you don't

plan to do litecoins until Sept. or Oct. or never please let us know.

I have to prep for the end of my gpu for btc mining. Even if I just sell the rigs on USA ebay at half price letting me know would be helpful.

 Thanks  phil

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philipma1957
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May 26, 2013, 06:04:02 PM
 #3163

Haha, pathetic luck today. After 24 hrs at 9.5 TH/s, we only found 8 blocks!


 well that was the luck for the 25th 


so far on the 26th  ;

 21 blocks and 1 was stale so 20 blocks in about 18 hours

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DrHaribo
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May 26, 2013, 07:23:39 PM
 #3164

Hi Doc not to beat a dead horse but any chance you will have litecoin pool in the future.

I'm working on stability issues right now. Haven't even had a chance to look at Litecoin at all yet. Can't make any promises.

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May 26, 2013, 07:31:09 PM
 #3165

Hi Doc not to beat a dead horse but any chance you will have litecoin pool in the future.

I'm working on stability issues right now. Haven't even had a chance to look at Litecoin at all yet. Can't make any promises.

  this is a fair answer as I realize btc is your bread and butter,

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May 26, 2013, 09:37:55 PM
 #3166

BitMinter is changing the minimum auto cash out threshold from 0.001 to 0.01.

The problem with 0.001 cashouts is that it gives you a "wallet full of pennies" and you will be forced to pay fees to send all those tiny amounts elsewhere later. With over 5000 active miners it is also starting to cost the pool a bit to do free cash outs, especially of such tiny amounts that demand a fee. So essentially we were spending money to help newbies shoot themselves in the foot.

Starting now, the website won't allow setting thresholds below 0.01. If you already have your threshold set below that, then it is recommended to change it to 0.01 or higher. If you don't, then that change will be forced on saturday june first (2013.06.01). Contact me (operator@bitminter.com) if you have any problems.

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May 26, 2013, 09:52:06 PM
 #3167

Can I ask is it bad to have a miner as powerful as realasicminer in the pool ?
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May 26, 2013, 10:00:41 PM
 #3168

BitMinter is changing the minimum auto cash out threshold from 0.001 to 0.01.
[+explanation on why edited out]

I always thought BitMinter already had a 0.01 threshold for payouts, every other pool I know of are already at 0.01. And I totally support your analysis on protecting the newbies from shooting themselves in the foot and avoid them piling up tons of very small coins without knowing what they're doing.

Can I ask is it bad to have a miner as powerful as realasicminer in the pool ?

No, it doesn't really change anything for others. To get the idea, if the pool hashrate goes x10 while your hashrate stays the same, you will be paid 10x less for each block found, but it will happen 10x more often.

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redtwitz
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May 26, 2013, 10:03:05 PM
 #3169

Can I ask is it bad to have a miner as powerful as realasicminer in the pool ?

It's good, actually.

The higher the pool's hashrate, the lower the miners' daily variance. The expected rewards remain the same, but the actual rewards fluctuate less.

Now, a single fast miner will mine at a high worker difficulty, which means boosting the pool's hashrate without putting a strain on the pool's network and CPU usage.
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May 26, 2013, 10:17:26 PM
 #3170

BitMinter is changing the minimum auto cash out threshold from 0.001 to 0.01.
[+explanation on why edited out]

I always thought BitMinter already had a 0.01 threshold for payouts, every other pool I know of are already at 0.01. And I totally support your analysis on protecting the newbies from shooting themselves in the foot and avoid them piling up tons of very small coins without knowing what they're doing.


Being new I assumed it was safer to take coins at 0.001 to my wallet, to protect against the pool being hacked or going away ...
Why does it matter what my wallet was built with?
If the wallet now holds BTC50 and I pay out BTC10 surely it matters not that the BTC50 was saved up pennies ?
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May 26, 2013, 10:23:07 PM
 #3171

Being new I assumed it was safer to take coins at 0.001 to my wallet, to protect against the pool being hacked or going away ...
Why does it matter what my wallet was built with?
If the wallet now holds BTC50 and I pay out BTC10 surely it matters not that the BTC50 was saved up pennies ?

I will try a simple analogy:
If you have 500 coins worth $0.10 in your wallet, you have $50.
If you have one $50 note in your wallet, you have $50 as well.

Now if you go to a shop, and try to pay a $50 item with 500 $0.10 coins, the cashier may look at you in a weird way and you will get many haters if there is a queue behind you. That does not happen with the $50 note.

This is because altough theoretically with the same value, in practice, dealing with 500 small coins for a $50 payment bears a much higher side-cost (read money handling) than a $50 note. The same applies to Bitcoins, and it translates as much higher transaction fees.

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GuiltySpark343
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May 26, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
 #3172

Why does it matter what my wallet was built with?
If the wallet now holds BTC50 and I pay out BTC10 surely it matters not that the BTC50 was saved up pennies ?


Think about it this way. If you're paying for a new cellphone that costs $200, it's way easier to count two $100 bills, than it is for the cashier to count 20,000 pennies. That would take the cashier a long time, causing long lines and people behind you getting angry for waiting.

In the BTC world, if you were paying 2 BTC with a wallet that accumulated 20 x 0.1 BTC, it's a smaller byte size transaction. Now if you were paying that 2 BTC with 2000 x 0.001 BTC, the byte size of that transaction goes up a lot, and it would have to be transmitted across the BTC network consuming bandwidth. I believe the reference Bitcoin-QT wallet (and Multibit) would enforce a transaction fee for doing that if you were ever to send a payment somewhere.

EDIT: Lol matt4054 had same analogy I did Smiley

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May 26, 2013, 10:36:42 PM
 #3173

that would mean btc is following fiat style methods, thats disappointing but i follow.
thanks
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May 26, 2013, 10:40:53 PM
 #3174

If the wallet now holds BTC50 and I pay out BTC10 surely it matters not that the BTC50 was saved up pennies ?
Yes, the fee is calculated from the size of the transaction in KB.  If you send 1 BTC consisting of 1000 0.001 coins..  Hmm, no.  That would be impossible, I think, because the transaction will have too many inputs to be valid.  If you send 0.1 BTC consisting of 100 0.001 sized inputs, the transaction will be approximately 18 KB large.  That means at least 0.009 BTC in fees, given a base fee of 0.0005 BTC per KB.  Which means 9 more 0.001 sized inputs have to be added just to pay the fee, which increases the fee to 0.01 BTC, and another 0.001 sized input has to be added to cover that as well.  If the input coins are young (recently received), it will cost even more.  You end up paying 10% of the transaction value in fees.
 
A transaction of 0.1 BTC from one 0.1 BTC input received a long time ago (more bitcoin-days destroyed), is only 180 bytes of inputs and will normally be free if the input is old enough.

Sjå http://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
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I support the roadmap.  If a majority of miners ever try to forcefully take control of Bitcoin through a hard fork without 100% consensus, I will immediately split out and dump all my forkcoins, and buy more real Bitcoin.
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May 26, 2013, 10:44:50 PM
 #3175

that would mean btc is following fiat style methods, thats disappointing but i follow.
thanks

The "coin" in "Bitcoin" comes with a reason indeed. This is necessary to keep the system distributed and not centralized in any way. To continue with my analogy, there are ways to convert 500 small coins into 1 big coin, but you will have to bear the price of this operation. And in the future, there are many payment systems that can develop over the Bitcoin "layer" to remove the burden of actually moving money, at the cost of centralization and "money as debt". I could write 1000 more lines on the subject but it would go off-topic, this forum is full of other topics for that.

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May 26, 2013, 11:01:06 PM
 #3176

Yes, although bitcoin prides itself on being able to divide the coins and make micro payments, the developers don't really care about that and like to set the fees quite high by default.

You can already make transactions (without too much effort) quite a bit more expensive than using a bank or a credit card
They seem to think that anyone using these advertised advantages is spamming the blockchain.
Odd.
It would seem either that none of them have any finance background or they do and are trying to get transaction payments to be as high as the fiat systems we all hate.

Pool mining means that indeed you are using a pool as a bank unless you payout yourself with transactions that the bitcoin devs consider too small to use ...
p2pool, on the other hand, by default makes micro payments and thus you are guaranteed to fall into the transaction fee trap.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
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May 26, 2013, 11:35:08 PM
 #3177

Yes, although bitcoin prides itself on being able to divide the coins and make micro payments, the developers don't really care about that and like to set the fees quite high by default.

You can already make transactions (without too much effort) quite a bit more expensive than using a bank or a credit card
They seem to think that anyone using these advertised advantages is spamming the blockchain.
Odd.
It would seem either that none of them have any finance background or they do and are trying to get transaction payments to be as high as the fiat systems we all hate.

Pool mining means that indeed you are using a pool as a bank unless you payout yourself with transactions that the bitcoin devs consider too small to use ...
p2pool, on the other hand, by default makes micro payments and thus you are guaranteed to fall into the transaction fee trap.

Nonsense. Confirming transactions has an operational cost: not even considering mining itself, storage across all the Bitcoin nodes isn't free. What's still missing and is on the road-map (look at the latest announcement for 0.8.2) is the creation of a market where miners and users will be able to find the right price for a transaction. Devs don't ignore the problem, they are designing a solution right now instead of whining about it.

Nearly all of my BTC is p2pool income and I don't have any problem with transaction fees (there are almost always <0.1% of my transactions which is far below the fees I know of). Miners with less hashrate could have problems but there too the p2pool devs are designing a solution instead of whining...

In case people didn't notice, Bitcoin is still in development (notice the major version number? 0?) arguing about deficiencies in an unfinished product nobody forces you to use is just trolling. kano, last time I checked you can code, why don't you go help with the solution instead of wasting your time spreading FUD?

P2pool tuning guide
Trade BTC for €/$ at bitcoin.de (referral), it's cheaper and faster (acts as escrow and lets the buyers do bank transfers).
Tip: 17bdPfKXXvr7zETKRkPG14dEjfgBt5k2dd
matt4054
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May 26, 2013, 11:43:51 PM
 #3178

Dear Hero Members,

You all know how political both issues are, about tx fees and the max block size in the blockchain. There are already (too) many topics discussing the issue, and everyone seems to know better than the other one, because it's highly politicial and depends on your own vision for Bitcoin as a payment system.

Nothing wrong in discussing it (politely and w/o ad hominem), but please do not hijack DrHaribo's BitMinter topic to discuss it. Thank you.

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May 27, 2013, 12:01:41 AM
 #3179

You all know how political both issues are, about tx fees and the max block size in the blockchain.

I believe you are mistaken: they aren't political at all.
They are technical problems to solve: that's the beauty of the Bitcoin system.
People whining about "political" problems just don't matter, people coding solutions do.

But you are right, that's not the place to discuss it, I'll ignore other posts on the subject here.

P2pool tuning guide
Trade BTC for €/$ at bitcoin.de (referral), it's cheaper and faster (acts as escrow and lets the buyers do bank transfers).
Tip: 17bdPfKXXvr7zETKRkPG14dEjfgBt5k2dd
philipma1957
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May 27, 2013, 12:18:14 AM
 #3180

You all know how political both issues are, about tx fees and the max block size in the blockchain.

I believe you are mistaken: they aren't political at all.
They are technical problems to solve: that's the beauty of the Bitcoin system.
People whining about "political" problems just don't matter, people coding solutions do.

But you are right, that's not the place to discuss it, I'll ignore other posts on the subject here.


 So one last question about this I hash at 8Gh/s earn .018 coins when a block is made.  I vary what I set my threshold at .035 rare . .2 .5 even 1.0 sometimes I want coins even part coins and set it low.  I do not mind setting my threshold at .5 vs .035

  if I set at .5   30  blocks later I am at .54 over the threshold and off to my bank.  if I need a small amount of coin and set at .03 the money moves every 2 blocks made.  This is costing bit minter?  This is costing myself?  Frankly I can set my threshold at .5 and every 2 days coins will move I do not mind, but is this saving bit minter or is this  saving myself money?  My bank will charge less if I bring in .5 coins not .03 17 times. Then pull out .5 coins 10 days later.   I would like to know and set my limits correctly .5 .6 or 1 coin  is okay for me  vs .2 or .1 .  what costs to the pool if I do 10x .1 vs  1x 1.0 .  TIA

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