[1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]

[minerpumpkin]

I'm just wondering whether there may be some way of sabotaging the pool... 20 TH/s off the network...
I know, the idea is old and there shouldn't be ways of doing this, but... well, you never know...

[westkybitcoins]

This rash of extreme delays between blocks, both BTC and NMC, seems like it's starting to become a statistical anomaly. A "that-guy-just-won-the-lottery-for-the-5th-time" level anomaly.

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Until it gets to about 1000%, it's not really that unlikely.
When you are finding hundreds of blocks a month, you'll hit really slow ones as well as really quick ones.
i.e. at a pool doing 20TH/s, if you get to 22hrs then yeah you are into rare territory for slow block finding.
Rare, but not impossible.

It's the Namecoin delays that make me suspicious. Namecoin blocks are pretty much solved independently of Bitcoin blocks.

So sure, a single long delay, even approaching a day, for a Bitcoin block, or only a few Bitcoin blocks in a couple days, I can understand. But to have no Bitcoin block for that long a period, and simultaneously have multiple long stretches between Namecoin blocks, which hit 50% for us in about an hour? I'm not saying something IS wrong, just that statistically, that adds another level of improbability.

Currently...

Bitcoin: 12h:09m (97.44% CDF)
Namecoin: 3h:39m (91.40% CDF, and that follows 8 blocks where the lowest CDF was 69.65%, average of 83.07%)

No need to panic, of course... time will tell if there's a problem or not. But this warrants watching.

[SgtSpike]

This rash of extreme delays between blocks, both BTC and NMC, seems like it's starting to become a statistical anomaly. A "that-guy-just-won-the-lottery-for-the-5th-time" level anomaly.

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Until it gets to about 1000%, it's not really that unlikely.
When you are finding hundreds of blocks a month, you'll hit really slow ones as well as really quick ones.
i.e. at a pool doing 20TH/s, if you get to 22hrs then yeah you are into rare territory for slow block finding.
Rare, but not impossible.

It's the Namecoin delays that make me suspicious. Namecoin blocks are pretty much solved independently of Bitcoin blocks.

So sure, a single long delay, even approaching a day, for a Bitcoin block, or only a few Bitcoin blocks in a couple days, I can understand. But to have no Bitcoin block for that long a period, and simultaneously have multiple long stretches between Namecoin blocks, which hit 50% for us in about an hour? I'm not saying something IS wrong, just that statistically, that adds another level of improbability.

Currently...

Bitcoin: 12h:09m (97.44% CDF)
Namecoin: 3h:39m (91.40% CDF, and that follows 8 blocks where the lowest CDF was 69.65%, average of 83.07%)

No need to panic, of course... time will tell if there's a problem or not. But this warrants watching.

Are you also going to get concerned about the 2 weeks of above-average block finding we've had just before this 3-day dry stretch?

[westkybitcoins]

Are you also going to get concerned about the 2 weeks of above-average block finding we've had just before this 3-day dry stretch?

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure there's nothing to worry about.

[DrHaribo]

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Last time we hit some bad luck I paid organofcorti to look into it, as some users believed it was statistically improbable. He's very good with statistics and probability and did a very thorough analysis which you can read here:

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/05/131-bitminter-and-luck.html

If you really want to look into the bad luck we had just now, please do what he did, don't just look at 3 unlucky blocks and jump to conclusions.

Also note how we paid better than most pools even when we had a long period of bad luck. Low fee, transaction fee income and namecoins make a big difference.

[westkybitcoins]

Anyone done the math as to the chances of going this long while putting out these CDF numbers? If it continues for much longer, it's going to be a very bad sign.

Last time we hit some bad luck I paid organofcorti to look into it, as some users believed it was statistically improbable. He's very good with statistics and probability and did a very thorough analysis which you can read here:

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/05/131-bitminter-and-luck.html

If you really want to look into the bad luck we had just now, please do what he did, don't just look at 3 unlucky blocks and jump to conclusions.

Also note how we paid better than most pools even when we had a long period of bad luck. Low fee, transaction fee income and namecoins make a big difference.

I apologize if you got the impression I was trying to badmouth the pool. I chose BitMinter for a reason, and the fee arrangement was a key component of that. A little bad luck isn't going to chase me away (as I've stated before in this forum;) that's simply not mathematically sound.

That said, thanks for the link.

[Jayjay04]

The proposition I made for adding 2 columns to the stats page will probably help many people understand the bad and good sequence we're facing... and put it in perspective.


http://imgur.com/piXw6qw

[Nemo1024]

The proposition I made for adding 2 columns to the stats page will probably help many people understand the bad and good sequence we're facing... and put it in perspective.


http://imgur.com/piXw6qw

+1
Good suggestion!

[DrHaribo]

I apologize if you got the impression I was trying to badmouth the pool.

No, not at all. I'm just trying to answer all the questions that pop up when we have bad luck. As usual I also have a couple of users sending support requests calling me a thief because today's payout was lower than usual. I try to explain how the reward system works, but not everyone want to listen..

[-ck]

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).

[philipma1957]

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).

 yeah , but how many coins did you cost the doctors pool?

  Not to sound nasty but the doc has 16-20th on line and if 10th of it was using your client.    you 1/2 our real hash thus the bad luck was directly caused by your error.

 I also realize that maybe only 1th , 2th of our pool was using your bad software. Your admittance not mine.  I also realize that your bug was introduced at the end of the 37 mill difficulty.

 Making it all the worst.     I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment.   We will go from 37 mill to 50 mill in a day. 

If your error was done on day one of an adjustment  instead of day nine of an adjustment   it would always cause less damage.   I mine mining a while and I am tired of all the little slip ups made costing myself and others money. 

So I ask you how much hash power did you take out on our pool >  How long has the damaged occurred for 1 day 2 days.  Does it match very closely our so called bad luck streak? 

Let be generous and say it was an accident. It goes to show miners that even a slip thing like an update by a client can be used as a weapon against a pool.
 So always be careful about updating your gear . The last 30 hours we have 2 blocks should have 8-9.  If your error did damage  which it did,  how many of the 6-7 lost blocks are on you.  care to guess?

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

[DrHaribo]

We have to expect that miner client bugs will happen. That's why I always post a link to the previous version when I post about a new version of my client.

If you upgrade and something is broken, downgrade again and report the bug.

Thanks for the quick fix, ckolivas.

[-ck]

yeah , but how many coins did you cost the doctors pool?

  Not to sound nasty but the doc has 16-20th on line and if 10th of it was using your client.    you 1/2 our real hash thus the bad luck was directly caused by your error.

 I also realize that maybe only 1th , 2th of our pool was using your bad software. Your admittance not mine.  I also realize that your bug was introduced at the end of the 37 mill difficulty.

 Making it all the worst.     I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment.   We will go from 37 mill to 50 mill in a day. 

If your error was done on day one of an adjustment  instead of day nine of an adjustment   it would always cause less damage.   I mine mining a while and I am tired of all the little slip ups made costing myself and others money. 

So I ask you how much hash power did you take out on our pool >  How long has the damaged occurred for 1 day 2 days.  Does it match very closely our so called bad luck streak? 

Let be generous and say it was an accident. It goes to show miners that even a slip thing like an update by a client can be used as a weapon against a pool.
 So always be careful about updating your gear . The last 30 hours we have 2 blocks should have 8-9.  If your error did damage  which it did,  how many of the 6-7 lost blocks are on you.  care to guess?

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

All I can say is wow to that sort of response... just plain wow... I mean what proportion automatically upgrade without checking what happens on upgrade... seriously... wow I mean wow. The new version wasn't even up for 12 hours before I posted a fix. Seriously wow... You got some anger towards someone but it is seriously fucking misguided if directed at me.

[kano]

...

Somebody forgot their meds today ...

Unless you were foolish enough to start cgminer 3.3.3 and not notice the errors spewing across your screen and thus switch back 3.3.2 or older ... yep it may have not been mining ...

[Mobius]

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).

 yeah , but how many coins did you cost the doctors pool?

  Not to sound nasty but the doc has 16-20th on line and if 10th of it was using your client.    you 1/2 our real hash thus the bad luck was directly caused by your error.

 I also realize that maybe only 1th , 2th of our pool was using your bad software. Your admittance not mine.  I also realize that your bug was introduced at the end of the 37 mill difficulty.

 Making it all the worst.     I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment.   We will go from 37 mill to 50 mill in a day.  

If your error was done on day one of an adjustment  instead of day nine of an adjustment   it would always cause less damage.   I mine mining a while and I am tired of all the little slip ups made costing myself and others money.  

So I ask you how much hash power did you take out on our pool >  How long has the damaged occurred for 1 day 2 days.  Does it match very closely our so called bad luck streak?  

Let be generous and say it was an accident. It goes to show miners that even a slip thing like an update by a client can be used as a weapon against a pool.
 So always be careful about updating your gear . The last 30 hours we have 2 blocks should have 8-9.  If your error did damage  which it did,  how many of the 6-7 lost blocks are on you.  care to guess?

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

Your reaction was uncalled for!

If people want to be update their miners to the latest version immediately, there are risks.
When upgrading, people should monitor the results and notice what differences their hardware are exhibiting.

If you are having issues with other vendors direct your anger at them, as far as your behavior.

You Sir, not to sound nasty as you put it, are a complete douche bag and that is being generous.

[DrHaribo]

Guys, take it easy.

[westkybitcoins]

Looks like a spike in difficulty helped delay this block. 50.8 million. Wow.

[Miner99er]

I'd like to thank SgtSpike for finding that block.

[Xian01]

... I would say that none should do any update of working mining clients near the next adjustment ...

 Shame on you for this post.

 Incredible.

[lano1106]

Apologies to bitminter miners if you upgraded to cgminer 3.3.3 which uniquely only broke this pool. I will be releasing a hotfix release today, 3.3.4, designed to mainly address this issue (if you are building from git the fix is already available).

 I do not like to sound or read so nasty but after a long list of poor btc companies and the like I am tired.

Feel free to write your own mining client. Nothing stops you. Everything is open source. It is called 'fix it yourself, if you're not happy of the software GIVEN to you'.

ckolivas is one of the most generous person to share his technical skills freely to the whole community. If he did receive 1 BTC per cgminer copy used or just received a small donation for each hour spent to improve cgminer for the benefits of all his users, he would be awesomely rich.

The hero title he has is well merited. In my mind, he is playing an important role for mainstream BTC adoption with his contribution.

I hope that you calm down a bit, realised that you might have overreacted and offer him your sincere apologizes.

The recent pool bad luck has nothing to do with cgminer.