Merit & new rank requirements

[rhamzter]

Is it possibile to do something like this? (image)

It is nice to see people thinking about adding additional features to the Merit system. +1 even if i think it isn't a necessary feature since it removes only 1 step (2 clicks)

Edit : sorry Ecua, we typed it at the same time but you was faster 

That's good to avoid abusing merit, because if giving merit have no limitation there's a possibility that in the future all merit we gain we're not because our post have good quality. Instead because we have a lot of friends in bitcoin community, that sounds was not good to hear.

Its better if we gain a lot of merit because our post is very knowledgeable to others, it is helpful and interesting. I'm I right?

[1714190913]

1714190913

[suchmoon]

I disagree that this new system widens the gap between cheaters and honest users. It appears to make it harder for shitposters to rank up. So in the long run quality posters should benefit by having fewer competing cheaters.

Ok, simple question: Can you guarantee that people who (subjectively) deserve merit will get it and can you hinder people from buying/trading merits?
That's what I meant by people who don't exploit vs. cheater. I'd think that there are more people who don't try to exploit than people who cheat but any way you look at it, you punish those who make a few valuable posts every time nobody recognizes them. Those who buy just buy >> gap gets wider.

I can't guaranteed anything. And I don't think anyone can guarantee what you're asking for, on this forum or on any other forum. There are no absolutes here, it's all about probabilities and possibilities. I think this new system restricts some of the shitposting incentives, and I think that's a good thing.

If you have specific scenarios how this can be exploited - please share. Farming and buying isn't really new, it is rampant already.

[mharz]

Is it possibile to do something like this? (image)

+1

Very similar to what I asked.
Making it easier/faster to use would be very helpful.

(Merited for the effort of the idea and the image)

Wow, interesting idea on user-friendly merit for sending sendable merit to others. It will save our time, which we can use for writing more knowledgeable, contributive, and high-qualitied posts.

On that changing of systems we can see now whose people who have a high possibility or potential to extend their position up to legendary. We can see who's people having helpful comments or opinions. I believe that more of the users extend their knowledge to become helpful and knowledge their post in bitcointalk.

In addition those shitposter have lessen their chance to having higher rank. But it's better if they have no demotion of position because people who achieve that we're deserve it.

[suchmoon]

If there were an alternative most of us would be gone already probably. At present however Bitcointalk has a monopoly position. And the crypto scene shouldn't belong to only a few, but to all of us.

There is no monopoly. You are free to post in any other forum or chatroom, or just close your browser and hike the Appalachian Trail.

But I'm getting a feeling that it's not posting, reading, or otherwise participating in this forum you're concerned about. Am I right?

[iCEBREAKER]

I've said before it's harsh for Hero members with over 775 activity to get only 500 merits, and your case is the worst I think!

What about Legendary members who now have the same Merit as those who have 1,000+ less activity than they do?  

The system is not perfect, but nothing stops Theymos from tweaking it later.

The Merit system reifyies and institutionalizes Legendary power structures!  

Legendary members with more activity must have their privilege checked, because meritocracy is a racist tool of white supremacist ideology.

Source: https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9874

If there were an alternative most of us would be gone already probably. At present however Bitcointalk has a monopoly position. And the crypto scene shouldn't belong to only a few, but to all of us.

In order to break the systems of oppression within our societies, it is important to intentionally set-aside time to think about justice, and whether or not our values are aligning with the ways in which we live our lives.

[technerd]

How does the merit system prevent you form visiting threads and expressing interest in coins?

It doesn't. My point is more on the ranking. When I joined, I accepted the ranking challenge and tried to make meaningful posts on each of my messages/replies. It's a nice way to encourage being active in this forum and helping others, and not just be lurking or posting only when help is needed. And of course, it's gratifying to see me moving up from Newbie to Jr. Member and hopefully higher.

So to be clear, I can still visit threads and contribute.  I just feel the additional Merit system will add another layer to users here, and instead of focusing on contributing to the threads, it adds a new dimension of finding how to reach their target Merits in addition to reaching their target Activity.

I understand there is an issue in terms of spamming and flooding posts just to be able to join bounties and all. These are money after all and it is general human behavior.  I believe the objective of all this is to tackle the issue of 1) limiting the number of new users to genuine users and 2) reducing, if not eliminating, the amount of spam in this forum. It's a tough balancing act. Time will tell how this new implementation will fare.

[lobcmt2]

I've said before it's harsh for Hero members with over 775 activity to get only 500 merits, and your case is the worst I think!

What about Legendary members who now have the same Merit as those who have 1,000+ less activity than they do?  

The system is not perfect, but nothing stops Theymos from tweaking it later.

The Merit system reifyies and institutionalizes Legendary power structures!  

Legendary members with more activity must have their privilege checked, because meritocracy is a racist tool of white supremacist ideology.

Source: https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9874

If there were an alternative most of us would be gone already probably. At present however Bitcointalk has a monopoly position. And the crypto scene shouldn't belong to only a few, but to all of us.

In order to break the systems of oppression within our societies, it is important to intentionally set-aside time to think about justice, and whether or not our values are aligning with the ways in which we live our lives.

I like your image, this tell lots of thing. The merit system is good in general, but it has still have some drawbacks, which should be eliminated in order to keep the merit system is a truly fair one, keep it as fair as possible for all ranks of users.
Anyway, I support the idea of merit system which related to user ranking.

[MainIbem]

This is a welcomed addition to the forum. When I saw my merit score, I was elated but was wondering how I got the score.  Now I know. It is also good because it will enhance more reasonable posts by members.

[technerd]

Well, you see? Someone has noticed your post, you've got 10 merits in one shot and now you are fit to become a Member in no time, as soon as your activity is 60. I think this system could work for low ranking members, but only for them. When you join the forum it will take you two months or so to achieve the activity necessary to become a Member. In these two months you just need to get 10 merits - which should not be impossible, or even difficult, for someone who makes decent posts.
The problem rises afterwards, when you need hundreds of merits to climb further in rank. My guess is that that will be an impossible mission, given the scarcity of sMerits. In the rules will stay like this on the long run it will thus become a Forum of Members only - with a little elite of people with higher and mostly frozen ranks.

Well, you have a point of course and perhaps getting the necessary number of Merits for each rank isn't all too difficult (though I think it gets more difficult the higher rank you go).

I think the original intention of the Activity system is to reward active members who contribute to the forum, and assign a ranking for them. It is an own-merit system (my own unofficial term), meaning you yourself control the destiny of your rank. It has its flaws of course, as is the reason for now introducing an additional Merit system.

The only concern I was pointing out on the Merit system is that it is a subjective system dependent on others (and not an own-merit system). This means, you are dependent on not only getting recognized by others but also being favored by them to hand out merits to you.  It's a system of chance, depending on whether someone notices your post.

All things said, this just represents my initial impression.  Perhaps I could be amplifying the picture or perhaps I could have misunderstood the system, and my concerns may be unfounded.  Time will tell how this unfolds.

[adotrulez]

Merit is a new system where older users can withhold merit from younger users so they can't rank up and earn all the bounties!

I don't think so, just look at this thread, a lot of higher rank members are already giving merits to lower rank members. This new method is not about hoarding bounties, this is about preserving the quality of the forum. There are a lot of forums in the internet that are already using the merit system in terms of likes and upvotes and so far it's been helping improve the quality of their forums.

Not sure you can say that at this stage though.. just because a trickle of new users in this thread (maybe 10% or so) are getting merit doesn't mean it's working. A lot are getting merit just because they are complaining that they don't have any merit and that it's unfair lol.

Out there in the wild: it may turn out that new users seldom get any merit at all.

Check this young account out..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0

one exception to a not so well thought out rule does not mean this paradigm shift has tilted this forum in the right direction.

But what do I know? I'm just a member after all...

right attitude, quality post.. lots of merit from lots of people.. it is working fella

[lobcmt2]

Well, you see? Someone has noticed your post, you've got 10 merits in one shot and now you are fit to become a Member in no time, as soon as your activity is 60. I think this system could work for low ranking members, but only for them. When you join the forum it will take you two months or so to achieve the activity necessary to become a Member. In these two months you just need to get 10 merits - which should not be impossible, or even difficult, for someone who makes decent posts.
The problem rises afterwards, when you need hundreds of merits to climb further in rank. My guess is that that will be an impossible mission, given the scarcity of sMerits. In the rules will stay like this on the long run it will thus become a Forum of Members only - with a little elite of people with higher and mostly frozen ranks.

Well, you have a point of course and perhaps getting the necessary number of Merits for each rank isn't all too difficult (though I think it gets more difficult the higher rank you go).

I think the original intention of the Activity system is to reward active members who contribute to the forum, and assign a ranking for them. It is an own-merit system (my own unofficial term), meaning you yourself control the destiny of your rank. It has its flaws of course, as is the reason for now introducing an additional Merit system.

The only concern I was pointing out on the Merit system is that it is a subjective system dependent on others (and not an own-merit system). This means, you are dependent on not only getting recognized by others but also being favored by them to hand out merits to you.  It's a system of chance, depending on whether someone notices your post.

All things said, this just represents my initial impression.  Perhaps I could be amplifying the picture or perhaps I could have misunderstood the system, and my concerns may be unfounded.  Time will tell how this unfolds.

As I said in my previous posts, I totally agree with you. Merit system which highly correlated with ranking system is good, but it has drawbacks. And this one partially is a system of luck, of chance, of randomized generosity. Lower users have to almost totally or partially depend on others to be upgraded. Therefore it should be adjusted a little bit.
Merit system should include two parts:
1. One part for users effort for themselves. Increasing their merit points weekly, monthly by a certain number of merit points, such as 2,5 merit points per month, etc. in a way extremely stricter than maximum activities monthly. Final merit points per month should be discussed more.
2. Merit points they can get from others who appreciated their posts which are both useful and high-quality.

Two parts will sum up users' total merit points.

[theymos]

I decided that the previous allocation was too unfair in this area, so everyone with activity >= 775 got 500 more merit if they didn't already have 1000 merit (and also Lutpin). No extra sMerit, though.

[adotrulez]

Well, while I appreciate the effort of improving the quality, I wonder if those changes are based on research or the pious wish that this will work. It doesn't matter how you call it, every form of ranking systems that are based on user-rating incentivizes trading and any kind of cheating whether by paying people making it a requirement in an airdrop etc.
Making it a commodity is a joke, sorry. It reeks of greed, an elite making their accounts even more valuable.

Another question: Why is the initial merit score equal to the minimum required to your rank? Why not proportionally to the actual activity?
Hope this will work, but I doubt it. Newbies will be disregarded and won't get merit, while known members will give themselves merit back and forth...

You should run for president!!! This is the best thing I have read on this thread all damn day!!!

[suchmoon]

Well, you have a point of course and perhaps getting the necessary number of Merits for each rank isn't all too difficult (though I think it gets more difficult the higher rank you go).

I think the original intention of the Activity system is to reward active members who contribute to the forum, and assign a ranking for them. It is an own-merit system (my own unofficial term), meaning you yourself control the destiny of your rank. It has its flaws of course, as is the reason for now introducing an additional Merit system.

The only concern I was pointing out on the Merit system is that it is a subjective system dependent on others (and not an own-merit system). This means, you are dependent on not only getting recognized by others but also being favored by them to hand out merits to you.  It's a system of chance, depending on whether someone notices your post.

All things said, this just represents my initial impression.  Perhaps I could be amplifying the picture or perhaps I could have misunderstood the system, and my concerns may be unfounded.  Time will tell how this unfolds.

There is an element of chance but it also depends on the quality of your posts. You get a better chance if your posts are higher quality. Compare to the old system where everyone had the same chance whether they post useless one-liners or broker Middle East peace.

The other aspect of the new system is that you're essentially competing with other posters for the limited amount of merits. In other words, you don't necessarily have to meet a specific criteria, maybe being your own self is enough. E.g. if 90% of the forum are shitposters and you're not - you should be fine.

[hashcoinusa]

Merit is a new system where older users can withhold merit from younger users so they can't rank up and earn all the bounties!

I don't think so, just look at this thread, a lot of higher rank members are already giving merits to lower rank members. This new method is not about hoarding bounties, this is about preserving the quality of the forum. There are a lot of forums in the internet that are already using the merit system in terms of likes and upvotes and so far it's been helping improve the quality of their forums.

Not sure you can say that at this stage though.. just because a trickle of new users in this thread (maybe 10% or so) are getting merit doesn't mean it's working. A lot are getting merit just because they are complaining that they don't have any merit and that it's unfair lol.

Out there in the wild: it may turn out that new users seldom get any merit at all.

Check this young account out..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0




Quality post is good thing;  but it will be good if the old system can run for who stuck in between. Now with the new merit system,   those about tot get their rank change now has to wait for long.  Same point is discuss on this thread over and over again.
one exception to a not so well thought out rule does not mean this paradigm shift has tilted this forum in the right direction.

But what do I know? I'm just a member after all...

right attitude, quality post.. lots of merit from lots of people.. it is working fella

[technerd]

As I said in my previous posts, I totally agree with you. Merit system which highly correlated with ranking system is good, but it has drawbacks. And this one partially is a system of luck, of chance, of randomized generosity. Lower users have to almost totally or partially depend on others to be upgraded. Therefore it should be adjusted a little bit.
Merit system should include two parts:
1. One part for users effort for themselves. Increasing their merit points weekly, monthly by a certain number of merit points, such as 2,5 merit points per month, etc. in a way extremely stricter than maximum activities monthly. Final merit points per month should be discussed more.
2. Merit points they can get from others who appreciated their posts which are both useful and high-quality.

Two parts will sum up users' total merit points.

Thanks for the discussion and I appreciate your point of view. Just one final point - your first part is already achieved by the Activity system. It's based on your own effort, you get max 14 points in 2 weeks, etc etc.  So in essence, the two parts you mention just described what the current system offers.

[YuTü.Co.in]

I decided that the previous allocation was too unfair in this area, so everyone with activity >= 775 got 500 more merit if they didn't already have 1000 merit (and also Lutpin). No extra sMerit, though.

+1 sM

Says the guy espousing that sM are not meant to be hoarded while ...   <humor at theymos' expense>

EDIT: It seems I'm mistaken as to what I was alluding to  : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=35 (carry on!)

Meanwhile, looks like I was beaten to the punch: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5.msg28#msg28 (yep, gave +1 sM; hope he doesn't hoard them  )

[nhamoitruonghoc]

As I said in my previous posts, I totally agree with you. Merit system which highly correlated with ranking system is good, but it has drawbacks. And this one partially is a system of luck, of chance, of randomized generosity. Lower users have to almost totally or partially depend on others to be upgraded. Therefore it should be adjusted a little bit.
Merit system should include two parts:
1. One part for users effort for themselves. Increasing their merit points weekly, monthly by a certain number of merit points, such as 2,5 merit points per month, etc. in a way extremely stricter than maximum activities monthly. Final merit points per month should be discussed more.
2. Merit points they can get from others who appreciated their posts which are both useful and high-quality.

Two parts will sum up users' total merit points.

Thanks for the discussion and I appreciate your point of view. Just one final point - your first part is already achieved by the Activity system. It's based on your own effort, you get max 14 points in 2 weeks, etc etc.  So in essence, the two parts you mention just described what the current system offers.

I guess what the guy mentioned is two componental merits will combine into final merit points. For example, with junior members, if they are active, they will receive one of two merit points each month. I think this one is extremely stricter enough to stop spamming. That what this guy tried mentioning about first part.

[zeze18]

merit point is an effective innovation and best solution to narrow activity of spammers that continue to increase and this is very useful as a filter for the post is more useful and has a quality,
And certainly provide a positive effect for quality post progress in the future,so of course in need of a creativity to be do post at any time.

[adotrulez]

Every community thrives on the entry of new members to keep the community refreshed and expanding.

Do the new entrants need time to settle down and adjust to the rules and regulations of the forum? Of course they do. Will some of them be spammers? Of course. Will some of them need time than others to learn the ropes? Most definitely!!!

But that does not mean we should neglect the fact that EVERY SINGLE Hero/Legendary member today was once a newbie. Some of them did a lot of spamming on their way to the top, a lot of them found it difficult to adjust to life here but they did and it has paid off.

When I was a newbie I never spammed because I had a lot of crypto training from my crypto mentor on how to evaluate projects and ICOs as well as a million and one things so even though I was still a crypto novice and a newbie here, I never spammed because of the deep respect I had for the forum plus it wasn't my very first crypto forum oddly enough.

What a lot of people supporting this shit merit system do not get is the fact that truly legit upcoming members who had to work hard to get to the middle levels are not happy to be affected by something we were never guilty of in the first place.  

One thing is for sure, if there is zero incentive to earn money on this platform there will likely be only a handful of people here. Anyone (and that includes high ranking members) claiming that the monetary benefits of rank increase through translations, bounty management, signature campaigns, social media bounties did not serve and still doesn't serve as an incentive is a BIG FAT HYPOCRITE.

This new system if not reversed or at the very least revised will adversely affect the traffic here. I mean,, let's be real...the major reason people want to rank up Is so they can enjoy the benefits high members are enjoying..and now you tell them they have to earn the accolades from those accusing them of ruining the forum in the first place. The irony of it all. Sad shit

Plus now if you had multiple accounts for spamming they just officially gave you multiple merits to burn and sell as you please. Even if you make the nicest comments and deliver the most informative posts doesn't mean a soul will be compelled to send you a single merit.

I could go on and on but sleep calls...I believe I have made my point.

The motive is undeniably great...the method sadly unquestionably flawed!