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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 137864 times)
djangocoin
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January 27, 2018, 01:43:19 PM
 #1521

this whole obsessiveness about rank seems blown out of proportion anyway. are there THAT many people in sig campaigns where rank makes a difference? i mean the only advantage to rank is sig campaigns anyway (aside from the recent "serious discussions" and "ivory tower" forums which are a welcome addition btw). i honestly dont know how many folks have sigs as i have sigs turned off so i never see them. the only sig ive ever had was a plug for cgminer back when btc was mined on gpus.

Sig campaigns is not the only reason. Airdrops are sometimes tied to rank: min rank req, and higher rank=bigger AD etc.

Also, many people may just skip over newbie posts and only read the ranked ones etc.

So, there are several reasons why it may be desirable to be a higher rank Wink

:]
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mithrim
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January 27, 2018, 01:43:50 PM
Merited by riderinred (1)
 #1522

And you can already see the first signs of such a tendence here in these threads about the new merit system. Juniors who are posting here to praise the system get plenty of merits, critical voices don't.
That is not entirely true, TMAN for example has given a lot of merit to users who openly disagreed with the change or criticized certain aspects. Others have been doing similar things, some more, some less.
I also have given a few merits to people being sceptic, as long as they had a well explained position or provided some alternative they believe to be more suited.
It's not about opinion not about agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them, it's about how you voice that opinion.
People who outright cry and shout "No, no, no" without giving reasons or alternatives don't get merit. Posts like that are neither constructive, nor "high quality".
If you make a well written post, explaining your position and opinion, bring something to the conversation, or just sum everything up really well, you will get merit, regardless of your opinion and stance.

this is my take as well. merits should be awarded for posts with accurate, helpful information or clarifying a point of view in a concise way, not for some "old boys club" or "you merited me, so +merit for you" thing. whether or not you agree with that position. i have no problem with meriting a post i dont agree with as long as that post contributes to the thread in a meaningful way.

this whole obsessiveness about rank seems blown out of proportion anyway. are there THAT many people in sig campaigns where rank makes a difference? i mean the only advantage to rank is sig campaigns anyway (aside from the recent "serious discussions" and "ivory tower" forums which are a welcome addition btw). i honestly dont know how many folks have sigs as i have sigs turned off so i never see them. the only sig ive ever had was a plug for cgminer back when btc was mined on gpus.

personally ive never paid attention to forum ranks. now am i proud of my legendary status? sure, ive been here since 2011 and ive tried to help whenever i can. but i post when i feel like it what i feel like it. its never for post count or to level up.

I get what you're saying but that's the problem 'merits should be awarded for posts with accurate, helpful information'. If you implement a system then sure, you think of a way it should be used. And then there is the way it is used.
To answer your question: Yes, there are THAT many people in sig campaigns and there is a lot of money involved. This can't be argued away and as long as it is like this, you need to take this into account.

Don't hate on me if I quote mayself from a couple of pages before:
Quote
The best example is this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0 where many gave merit points. But ask yourself, is this a valuable post? It took time to make it, sure, but what makes it valuable. It purely reflects an opinion. It doesn't discriminate or list pros and cons, there is no contrast. It tells the supporters of this new system what they want to hear and of course, they merited it, ridiculously high if I might add.
There are hundreds of posts in this forum that have more value than this post, I wonder if all of them get 61+ merit.

Please, have a look and decide for yourself. And as I said, I'm not jealous, this member did everything right. But it shows how the merit system is used in contrast to how it should be used.


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Godwans
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Heya Homies


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January 27, 2018, 01:51:45 PM
 #1523

And you can already see the first signs of such a tendence here in these threads about the new merit system. Juniors who are posting here to praise the system get plenty of merits, critical voices don't.
That is not entirely true, TMAN for example has given a lot of merit to users who openly disagreed with the change or criticized certain aspects. Others have been doing similar things, some more, some less.
I also have given a few merits to people being sceptic, as long as they had a well explained position or provided some alternative they believe to be more suited.
It's not about opinion not about agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them, it's about how you voice that opinion.
People who outright cry and shout "No, no, no" without giving reasons or alternatives don't get merit. Posts like that are neither constructive, nor "high quality".
If you make a well written post, explaining your position and opinion, bring something to the conversation, or just sum everything up really well, you will get merit, regardless of your opinion and stance.

this is my take as well. merits should be awarded for posts with accurate, helpful information or clarifying a point of view in a concise way, not for some "old boys club" or "you merited me, so +merit for you" thing. whether or not you agree with that position. i have no problem with meriting a post i dont agree with as long as that post contributes to the thread in a meaningful way.

this whole obsessiveness about rank seems blown out of proportion anyway. are there THAT many people in sig campaigns where rank makes a difference? i mean the only advantage to rank is sig campaigns anyway (aside from the recent "serious discussions" and "ivory tower" forums which are a welcome addition btw). i honestly dont know how many folks have sigs as i have sigs turned off so i never see them. the only sig ive ever had was a plug for cgminer back when btc was mined on gpus.

personally ive never paid attention to forum ranks. now am i proud of my legendary status? sure, ive been here since 2011 and ive tried to help whenever i can. but i post when i feel like it what i feel like it. its never for post count or to level up.

I get what you're saying but that's the problem 'merits should be awarded for posts with accurate, helpful information'. If you implement a system then sure, you think of a way it should be used. And then there is the way it is used.
To answer your question: Yes, there are THAT many people in sig campaigns and there is a lot of money involved. This can't be argued away and as long as it is like this, you need to take this into account.

Don't hate on me if I quote mayself from a couple of pages before:
Quote
The best example is this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0 where many gave merit points. But ask yourself, is this a valuable post? It took time to make it, sure, but what makes it valuable. It purely reflects an opinion. It doesn't discriminate or list pros and cons, there is no contrast. It tells the supporters of this new system what they want to hear and of course, they merited it, ridiculously high if I might add.
There are hundreds of posts in this forum that have more value than this post, I wonder if all of them get 61+ merit.

Please, have a look and decide for yourself. And as I said, I'm not jealous, this member did everything right. But it shows how the merit system is used in contrast to how it should be used.


I have to agree with you here. This poster(while nicely written) was just parroting what all the 'OG's' of BCT wanted to hear and was rewarded for falling in line.
I would venture that most of the sMerits-to-give never click inside an alt thread.

This is my siggy
b3j0
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January 27, 2018, 02:07:04 PM
 #1524

I consider merit like a challenge so I can make quality posts and useful for others. when merit is hard to come by it is not impossible that merit will be traded. I hope there is a special team to prevent this.

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lobcmt2
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January 27, 2018, 02:09:07 PM
Merited by wwzsocki (1)
 #1525

There is a big chance that even if you post only quality content you will be left with no merits at all.

First, people don't know what that is and how to use it. Second, nobody likes to give merits because it fills like you are losing them.

There will be a lot of abuse for sure. We will see merits sent to low-quality friends post and accounts providing upvotes for money or in exchange.

I see there is a discussion to add bad merits to downvote spam. I am afraid that people will use it as a weapon to downvote posts they do not agree with or just because they don't like the author.

You are missing a point by misunderstanding one of very fundamental characteristics of merit. You cannot send your merits to anyone, the ones you can send is sMerits (sendable merits). You won't lose your merits by sending sMerits to others. Please donate 1 merit if my thread is contributive and useful (at least for you)
lobcmt2
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January 27, 2018, 02:17:15 PM
Merited by TMAN (2)
 #1526

Guys, any chance that current period will be counted as previously (without merits yet)?
2 activity till Senior member  Embarrassed
Me too. 4 more activities before being Member.
Sowik
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January 27, 2018, 02:26:15 PM
Merited by wwzsocki (1)
 #1527

There is a big chance that even if you post only quality content you will be left with no merits at all.

First, people don't know what that is and how to use it. Second, nobody likes to give merits because it fills like you are losing them.

There will be a lot of abuse for sure. We will see merits sent to low-quality friends post and accounts providing upvotes for money or in exchange.

I see there is a discussion to add bad merits to downvote spam. I am afraid that people will use it as a weapon to downvote posts they do not agree with or just because they don't like the author.


THIS is how I feel as well.

Do you guys really believe that all people who deserve to be merited will be merited?

A like system will be better. Only higher rank people will be able to like posts, will be easy to filter out multi accounts and spammers.
UKARY22
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January 27, 2018, 02:27:38 PM
 #1528

Why Merit is so hard to get them??
How to make good post??
is there any other way to get Merit?
How to get merit?  Please give me explanation

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TMAN
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January 27, 2018, 02:29:40 PM
 #1529

Guys, any chance that current period will be counted as previously (without merits yet)?
2 activity till Senior member  Embarrassed
Me too. 4 more activities before being Member.

I've given you two as your posts are improving.. keep it up fella

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justatrader
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My old account was compromised - Can't get it back


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January 27, 2018, 02:31:03 PM
 #1530

I wonder who the first one to 15 million merits will be Wink

I like this change a lot. Hopefully we'll see an increase in post quality.

I couldn't agree more with you. The sheer amount of FUD posted by multi-account holders in order to gain attention (or be at least a Sr Member in order to receive airdrops etc) is horrendous and I'm quite tired of being scammed (to be honest).

I'm now a bottom feeder as me old account was compromised and unsigned (so I need to work my way back up the ladder again).. Lotion for promotion I think they call it. Smiley


Looking to sell the domain or business partners
- BTC Escrow business opportunity (http://www.btcescrow.com)
krishnaverma
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★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


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January 27, 2018, 02:38:58 PM
 #1531

Why Merit is so hard to get them??
How to make good post??
is there any other way to get Merit?
How to get merit?  Please give me explanation

1) It is not hard to get. See this post which got about 60 merits in total https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2828014.0

2) Good post is one which is on the topic and solves the query asked by the OP. It is free from fluff.

3) No

4) Make a good quality post. Have a look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats

Here you can see recent posts getting merit, posts with highest merits all time and much more. Try to learn from these posts. All the best.

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b3j0
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January 27, 2018, 02:39:28 PM
 #1532

Why Merit is so hard to get them??
How to make good post??
is there any other way to get Merit?
How to get merit?  Please give me explanation
1. You just need to adapt so as not to feel difficult
2. to make a good post is you must master the existing knowledge in this forum and keep trying to make a post that can help others.
3. There is no other way to get merit except from someone else.
4. to get merit You must make a post that is useful for others so that person will give smerit to you

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redsn0w
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January 27, 2018, 02:45:19 PM
 #1533

I mean, if I give you a merit point and tomorrow I want to remove it (for a certain reason) I can't do it because the actual system doesn't allow you.
I suspect this is by design, it gives merits a bit more impact than a simple "like" (to which they are often compared).
Also likely (at least part of) the reason why you have to visit a new page, and once again confirm a merit rating you send, so you cannot do this by accident.

Further, it could become quite the mess with sMerit being awarded to the person you rate, and how these are reversed.
Say you have 10 sMerit and reward 10 Merit to someone who previously had none (thus spend all yours), then that person gets 5 sMerit, which also is their total.
Now they go and reward those 5 to someone else (taking their sMerit to 0 too).
Now you want to reverse your merit rating, would this give you your initial 10 sMerit back? Would this also mean the 5 sMerit spent on another person get reversed as their initiator was reversed?
It could get very complicated very quickly with something like that.

Sounds correct, it is not really logical to remove a merit.
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January 27, 2018, 02:48:53 PM
Merited by DarkStar_ (1)
 #1534

Why Merit is so hard to get them??
How to make good post??
is there any other way to get Merit?
How to get merit?  Please give me explanation
1. It is only hard if you are not able to make high-qualitied or contributive posts. If you can, you will get of merits from others. The other ways is create a new topic, which is informative, high-qualitied, of course, to get merits.
2. It requires a lot of time, of course for learning in order to be knowledgeable enough to make good post, which can help others to get out of their mess, the one of them will give you merits.
3. Of course, there are some alternative ways, which I don not want to mention there. You should stick to possitive approach, which is better for your self too.
4. Hope that my thread will receive merits, which in turn a good instance for you.
saponetes
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January 27, 2018, 02:55:45 PM
Last edit: January 27, 2018, 03:16:06 PM by saponetes
 #1535

The guys with multiple accounts will send merit to their accounts and never to other accounts. Hero and legend member do not want competition for bounties and left other members at low ranking levels. Nicke sh*t feature that appears here at the forum in the "middle of the night".... This will only prejudice members with one account, and the real guys that are not trying to cheat the system...

Another unfair situation are accounts like mine that reached full member rank one day after this merit thing appears and only received 10 points. The points in this starting point should be given with a ratio with number of posts inside rank.
Let me explain - if this merit think started 24 January and a member has 118 rank, should be given a percentage of points more near from the next level and not the lowest merit points possible to that rank level. It is very unfair.

120 ----- 100
118 ----- x


x= circa 98 merit points and not 10......


Now i have to collect a lot of merit for an unknown time to reach next rank.

This thing happens when taken measures are thinking with the feet, a commom pratice of my country government....

I hope my explanation is clear ´cos i am not english native.


deplorable....
QuestionAuthority
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January 27, 2018, 03:00:58 PM
 #1536

This system will promote conservative opinion on this forum and create a kind of a social bubble.

We can see that there were boards created recently that only allow for people with certain rank to participate and now it seems like the ranking system is being centralized by hand picking the sources.

Merit system is a good idea, but the sources seem like a problem here. You need to implement a system to create sources automatically, randomly if nothing else. Otherwise you can easily get into trouble by like-minded individuals being promoted and ones that have new, maybe radical, ideas never getting higher ranks.

We either need to create merit as something that has no effect on anything practical on this forum (similar to the trust system) or generate quite random sources. I am afraid that this forum will become very conservative as the time goes on if we keep adding these centralized features.

Trust me, the word “conservative”, used as either an adjective or a noun, is not ever going to describe anyone using this forum. ROFL

CoinEraser
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January 27, 2018, 03:06:43 PM
 #1537

I decided that the previous allocation was too unfair in this area, so everyone with activity >= 775 got 500 more merit if they didn't already have 1000 merit (and also Lutpin). No extra sMerit, though.

Very good decided. But i can still crying.  Cool  Cry
I have 770 activity and reach 784 in the next days. Now i have to reach 1000 merit. This is a long and hard way. 5 activity points too little. Anyway, i still think the new system is good.

But why not give every period maybe 10 merits to 100 legendary accounts randomly as a speziell merit source??
Cot
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January 27, 2018, 03:12:05 PM
 #1538

Super idea, but still in some point it will disregarded or doesn't matter. You know what I mean...  Smiley
aleksej996
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January 27, 2018, 03:18:42 PM
 #1539

This system will promote conservative opinion on this forum and create a kind of a social bubble.

We can see that there were boards created recently that only allow for people with certain rank to participate and now it seems like the ranking system is being centralized by hand picking the sources.

Merit system is a good idea, but the sources seem like a problem here. You need to implement a system to create sources automatically, randomly if nothing else. Otherwise you can easily get into trouble by like-minded individuals being promoted and ones that have new, maybe radical, ideas never getting higher ranks.

We either need to create merit as something that has no effect on anything practical on this forum (similar to the trust system) or generate quite random sources. I am afraid that this forum will become very conservative as the time goes on if we keep adding these centralized features.

Trust me, the word “conservative”, used as either an adjective or a noun, is not ever going to describe anyone using this forum. ROFL

I didn't mean to associate it with political affiliation in US, if that is what confused you. I meant it as such that people could be conservative about Bitcoin development as we never know on which side these few sources might be in some future discussion. The problem is that whichever side they might pick in bigger numbers, people with the same opinion will rank faster than the ones that disagree with them.
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January 27, 2018, 03:36:41 PM
 #1540

I think this merit think is all about money. Preserve the higher ranking members in the forum with their rank status to mantain their status and get bigger shares at ICO bounties.
Since ICO´s are borning like popcorns and lots of bounties are being rewarded to members, this is a system that will preserve siganture campaigns a bigger share to the higher ranking members that control the forum and create difficulties the the lower members in to participate in ICO signature bouties. ICO signature bounties are the biggest share in the bounty distribution.

Glad i have a twitter account that i preserve and care daily with thousands of followers.
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