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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 141749 times)
Thekool1s
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October 17, 2018, 11:33:19 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5341

@kingzee I came to bitcointalk for freelancing and not for signature campaigns. When I joined there was only 1 signature campaign going around which was of prime dice. So your idea about people coming here to make money is the right one but I strongly agree with hilarious, you don't want to pay people who bash random keys on their keyboard and make more money than a salaryman in their country. The opportunity which Bitcointalk presents has made money people 'lazy' TBH. You can still make money in many different ways. Just visit the marketplace there are all sorts of tasks for everyone.

Quote
I mean fuck off, over a 1000 words written the last 24 hours and still barely at +3 merit, which brings me to your next point.

I often hear that most legendary users got their merit through the airdrop. It's true. Many people got it from the airdrop but the problem here is you think of merit as bitcoin. People could 'mine' bitcoin through CPUs and GPUs back in the day. Any bitcoin 'miner' today could complain about people who got all those bitcoins for merely just being there and doing very 'little effort' to get those BTCs. Being at the right place and at the right time does matter. The amount of 'effort' put by those people in terms of 'hashing' was way lower than we have today and they still got 'paid' more. You may think its the same case with 'merit' but TBH its totally opposite. If you make a half decent post on a topic you have real knowledge of. Merit will find its way to you.

Also, +3 merit in 24 hours isn't bad for casual discussions if you ask me. Many people struggle to get merit a week. You will eventually get there if you keep up your post quality. I will also suggest you be open-minded. There are far better ways to make money than posting random junk on the internet.


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KingZee
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October 17, 2018, 01:23:03 PM
 #5342


So your idea about people coming here to make money is the right one but I strongly agree with hilarious, you don't want to pay people who bash random keys on their keyboard and make more money than a salaryman in their country. The opportunity which Bitcointalk presents has made money people 'lazy' TBH.


The people who come here don't necessarily spend all their days and live through sig campaigns. It's not that hard nor that time-consuming, so let's face it, the pay per hour wasted is definitely worthwile for almost anyone.

But WHY do all of you guys belittle Juniors, Members, and Full members this much? Sig campaign managers put (word-count, time, etc..) limits on their campaigns all the time. I'm sure that you could pick any random senior and hero participating in the same campaign and you would see very little difference in post quality, as long as they both adhere to the sig campaign rules.

What I don't understand (or I do understand it.. I just don't like it), is this stance towards lesser ranked members. WHY don't you want them making money too? I'm an example of many, the lowest accepting campaign takes Senior with min 260 merit, average is a lot higher now. WHY do I need to put in so much extra effort to become eligible? It's purely unfair, because just a few weeks ago, I had the same possibilities open to me like you did. But right now, the gap has gotten so much larger, that it just benefits you guys, the ones who already made it past the red line.

It's a shame I can't view all members to prove my point, but there's probably a shitload of existing hero members that make posts of mediocre quality. The same quality that a junior sig campaign member would do write to barely fit his post inside the post count rules. But because the merit system was uneven from the start, it makes it look a lot worse than what it already is.

Also, +3 merit in 24 hours isn't bad for casual discussions if you ask me. Many people struggle to get merit a week. You will eventually get there if you keep up your post quality. I will also suggest you be open-minded. There are far better ways to make money than posting random junk on the internet.

And yet there are users who already make +30 to +300 in a week...

And please, sigs are by far the easiest way to make money, you guys make newbies look like some sort of mentally challenged people. All kinds of user accounts regardless of level are going to read the sig campaign rules and do the bare minimum to make their posts fit in.

Everyone was a newbie x years ago. The activity system is great because it proves user commitment to contributing to the forums, the trust system is good because it can flag users that might make their way unethically through that system. The merit system? It's designed unevenly from the start. No equal opportunity, just biased judgements. Made a great post? The fact alone that you don't have more than 4 coins under your name instantly divides your deserved merit by how much of a superiority complex does the legendary member reading it has.

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October 17, 2018, 01:53:37 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5343

The people who come here don't necessarily spend all their days and live through sig campaigns. It's not that hard nor that time-consuming

You're right, it isn't that hard, but that's the issue. A lot of people are actually coming here and "doing bitcoin full time" and this is their "job" now, but they're doing a shoddy job. The problem is is that some people do just sign up here to earn by getting paid and they literally have dozens to sometimes hundreds of accounts just churning out rubbish on each of them, and that's why we unfortunately need the merit system.

But WHY do all of you guys belittle Juniors, Members, and Full members this much? Sig campaign managers put (word-count, time, etc..) limits on their campaigns all the time. I'm sure that you could pick any random senior and hero participating in the same campaign and you would see very little difference in post quality, as long as they both adhere to the sig campaign rules.

We don't, but for some reason you think we do. We belittle the shitposters, who just so happen to consist of a lot of lower ranks a lot of the time, but there are shitposters of every rank. People are tired of all the spam, not just spam from lower ranks, but systems need to be put in place to stop spammers farming as many accounts as they like and the merit system severely curbs that.

What I don't understand (or I do understand it.. I just don't like it), is this stance towards lesser ranked members. WHY don't you want them making money too?

You seem to be confused about something here. We don't want shitposters making money for spam. People shouldn't be able to get paid for posting rubbish regardless of rank. I don't care about others making money. In fact, I think it's great if people can make some money here just for posting, but not for writing crap about something they know nothing about.

I'm an example of many, the lowest accepting campaign takes Senior with min 260 merit, average is a lot higher now. WHY do I need to put in so much extra effort to become eligible? It's purely unfair, because just a few weeks ago, I had the same possibilities open to me like you did. But right now, the gap has gotten so much larger, that it just benefits you guys, the ones who already made it past the red line.

Poor you. You're literally complaining that you have to put effort into your posts now. Have you ever thought that you or your attitude might be part of the problem? People have become so entitled here it's ridiculous. We have no control over what campaigns accept as their minimum thresholds, but I think they should have higher standards and much more so. If every campaign did then we wouldn't have an issue with spam in the first place and we probably wouldn't have needed the merit system either, but campaigns are lazy and were paying for spam constantly and something needed to change.

Oh, there are also lots of campaigns you can join, even as lower rank, but I suspect they don't pay as much as you'd like and the fact that you can't get onto a higher paying campaign straight away and without any fuss is probably what's annoyed you so much.

It's a shame I can't view all members to prove my point, but there's probably a shitload of existing hero members that make posts of mediocre quality. The same quality that a junior sig campaign member would do write to barely fit his post inside the post count rules. But because the merit system was uneven from the start, it makes it look a lot worse than what it already is.

There are lots of shitposting Heroes (and every other rank), but this is why campaigns shouldn't just accept anyone based on rank and should take each user on a case by case basis, like ChipMixer does. A mere rank doesn't mean you're a great poster, but you need a higher rank for a bigger signature and that's what most of the campaigns want or are paying for. That doesn't mean they should be paying for spam though.


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October 17, 2018, 02:02:55 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5344

~
Look man, I've been reporting rule-breakers since the time I got involved with this forum. I'm not so experienced as other users or the mods, but after almost 2000 successful reports here is my observation >

In this sea of newbies registered every day you can find probably 2-3 users that have real interest in cryptocurrency, and are here to stay the rest are accounts used for >
20% - bumping thread (quite a business here) they are controlled by a few people.
30% - alt accounts for abusing the bounties
30%- legit people heard that they can make money online
15%- banned people, just ban evading.
3% - people having different issues, looking for help.
2% -  announcing new projects, services etc.
Note > this is just based only on my observation.

Big part of those above get banned.
I'm talking only for the newbies here, how you can see them in a different way as the majority are here only to harm/pollute the forum? I know that there are good people out there with good intentions and sooner or later they gonna pass trough this shitposting border and come out as legit users but it takes time.

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October 17, 2018, 02:05:26 PM
 #5345

... We belittle the shitposters, who just so happen to consist of a lot of lower ranks a lot of the time, but there are shitposters of every rank.

...

You seem to be confused about something here. We don't want shitposters making money for spam. People shouldn't be able to get paid for posting rubbish regardless of rank.

...

So explain to me how does the merit system prevent heroes and legendaries from posting equally low effort posts if they start with more points, have more to distribute to each other, and vice versa, how does it encourage lower ranks to merit posts that deserve to be merited, if they don't have many sMerits nor Merits themselves? Smiley


Poor you. You're literally complaining that you have to put effort into your posts now. Have you ever thought that you or your attitude might be part of the problem? People have become so entitled here it's ridiculous. We have no control over what campaigns accept as their minimum thresholds, but I think they should have higher standards and much more so. If every campaign did then we wouldn't have an issue with spam in the first place and we probably wouldn't have needed the merit system either, but campaigns are lazy and were paying for spam constantly and something needed to change.

Oh, there are also lots of campaigns you can join, even as lower rank, but I suspect they don't pay as much as you'd like and the fact that you can't get onto a higher paying campaign straight away and without any fuss is probably what's annoyed you so much.


Lol? I don't even have a sig campaign under me. I already know I'm never getting merited because the top people who have the points only merit the people they care about. So what are you even talking about? I am writing these long-ass posts out of pure disgust of the merit system.

And YES, I don't want to post 60 posts a week to make 20$/week. That's the whole POINT I'm arguing for. It's MERIT that denied me access to higher paying sigs. This last paragraph you wrote is just pure garbage..

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October 17, 2018, 02:11:15 PM
 #5346


Look man, I've been reporting rule-breakers since the time I got involved with this forum. I'm not so experienced as other users or the mods, but after almost 2000 successful reports here is my observation >

In this sea of newbies registered every day you can find probably 2-3 users that have real interest in cryptocurrency, and are here to stay the rest are accounts used for >
20% - bumping thread (quite a business here) they are controlled by a few people.
30% - alt accounts for abusing the bounties
30%- legit people heard that they can make money online
15%- banned people, just ban evading.
3% - people having different issues, looking for help.
2% -  announcing new projects, services etc.
Note > this is just based only on my observation.

Big part of those above get banned.
I'm talking only for the newbies here, how you can see them in a different way as the majority are here only to harm/pollute the forum? I know that there are good people out there with good intentions and sooner or later they gonna pass trough this shitposting border and come out as legit users but it takes time.


Regardless if your observation is true or not, merit isn't even a problem for those newbie accounts. It BECOMES a problem for legit newbies who WANT to commit to the forums to make money later, because it's now HARDER for them to breach the line to become relevant.

The fact that they're newbies already fucks them over because no one is going to merit them, and that's it, stuck in a deadlock, not just as newbies, but again and again until they reach Hero level.

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October 17, 2018, 02:19:33 PM
 #5347

The fact that they're newbies already fucks them over because no one is going to merit them, and that's it, stuck in a deadlock, not just as newbies, but again and again until they reach Hero level.
No one cares if they are a Newbie or not. I will merit anyone regardless of their rank if their post is good enough. Actually, I prefer to rank up low-rank because it "helps" them.

The problem is that finding a Newbie that deserves even a single merit is a hard task.

A quick read for you: MYTHBUSTERS: Only high ranked users are rewarded with merits

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October 17, 2018, 02:26:41 PM
 #5348


From that post :

Quote
For sure, if we changed absolute numbers to the relatives – compare the number of all users in each group to number of users who have ever received any merit this analysis would probably look little bit different – higher ranks would show bigger percent users who has been merited… I wrote about a bit about it earlier here:
Quote from: cryptovigi on October 04, 2018, 12:17:36 AM
...

Rank                          number of users         number of users      
received at least
1 merit

   number of users      
with who didn’t
earn any merit
Member   27 918   4 744 (17%)   23 174  (83%)
Full Member   18 181   3 173 (17,45%)   15 008  (82,55%)
Sr. Member   9 016   1 818 (20,16%)   7 198  (79,84%)
Hero Member   4 143   1 105 (26,67%)   3 038  (73,33%)
Legendary   2 145   1 133 (52,82%)   1 012  (47,18%)
...
But the difference is not as much so let’s leave it - it’s not a point of my consideration today.


To sum it up for you, If 100 newbies out of 10000 newbies got a 100 merit, and 80 legendaries out of a 100 got 100 merit... I hope you can complete the sentence.

Those stats are also missing vital information about distribution. I should include mine that I posted a few posts ago :


...

Numbers! I love numbers! You count 22925 users who received at least 1 merit, nice. I count :

- 4% who received more or equal to 50 merit.
- 25% who received more or equal to 10 merit.
- 33% who received more or equal to 5 merit.
- 48% who received more or equal to 3 merit.
(all percentages are inclusive of ranks above them).

So basically, half the accounts that ever got merit, never got merited again. And the top 5% of people who got merited, are AT LEAST 50 times more likely than your average user to get merited. Smiley

Quick Edit : Also not to forget that these are 22k users who got merited at all. I wonder if we could get stats of Posts by Seniors Merited / Total Posts by Seniors, Full, Hero, Legendary. That oughtta be a fun sight.

.....

It's not because it has MYTHBUSTERS written in caps, and shiny pics that it makes any sort of statistical sense.

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October 17, 2018, 02:37:49 PM
 #5349

~
So, just because more Legendary users get more merit than most Newbies, you can safely assume that no one likes Newbies and they won't merit them by any means? Have you thought that maybe it's because there are a lot more Newbies (created in bulk by spammers), which inflames these numbers?

Meanwhile, others only care about their beloved 1 merit to rank up to Jr. Member and keep spamming their bounty entries, which may be the reason why a lot of them only try until they get merited a few times, and when they can go back to their spam, they do it without thinking twice.

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October 17, 2018, 02:43:48 PM
 #5350


So, just because more Legendary users get more merit than most Newbies, you can safely assume that no one likes Newbies and they won't merit them by no means? Have you thought that maybe it's because there are a lot more Newbies (created in bulk by spammers), that those numbers are inflated?

While others only care about their beloved 1 merit to rank up to Jr. Member and keep spamming their bounty entries, which may be the reason why a lot of them only try until they get merited a few times, and when they can go back to their spam, they do it without thinking twice.

Sure, that makes sense. How about we do this :

Out of all the newbies/jrs/fulls/srs who DID get merit -which I'm going to assume means they're not spamming, if you can agree to that- what's the average merit they received per post, and what's the average of unique members that merited those newbies/jrs/fulls per post.

Just these two for each member rank, then do it for legendaries and heroes too. If the stats are evenly distributed i'll never mention this topic again.

EDIT : I doubt anyone has the fucking time or effort to do this, but if we want to also include post quality here, instead of average merit per post, make it average merit per WORD. A lot of words mean a quality post right? I'd eat my shorts if newbies make even a twentieth of what a hero makes.

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October 17, 2018, 03:05:29 PM
 #5351

~
So, just because more Legendary users get more merit than most Newbies, you can safely assume that no one likes Newbies and they won't merit them by any means? Have you thought that maybe it's because there are a lot more Newbies (created in bulk by spammers), which inflames these numbers?

Meanwhile, others only care about their beloved 1 merit to rank up to Jr. Member and keep spamming their bounty entries, which may be the reason why a lot of them only try until they get merited a few times, and when they can go back to their spam, they do it without thinking twice.

I'd say they don't even think once, because you must be really stupid to waste so much time spamming in order to be rewarded 0$ or at best 10$ per month.
No project will pay handfully Jr. Member unless they're just a scam project which doesn't care for the value of their coin/token.

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October 17, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
 #5352

Check this analysis from today >
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5052019.0

You can see how many newbies have received their first merit by those high ranked members. Just look for the nFirstTime parameter. Based on the table I've given merit to 12 newbies for their first time.
I ran a service to help those who needed 1 point to rank up as I had not so many sMerit but I gave them all. I still try to give away all the sMerit I have to keep the wheel rolling

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October 17, 2018, 03:56:41 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5353

So explain to me how does the merit system prevent heroes and legendaries from posting equally low effort posts
Merit doesn't stop high-ranking spammers.
But there's this:
Code:
6704 permanent bans (including nukes):
     4228 Newbie
     1244 Brand new (nukes I'm assuming)
      460 Member
      328 Jr. Member
      276 Full Member
       99 Sr. Member
       40 Hero Member
       22 Copper Member
        7 Legendary

87222 merits destroyed:
       13 merits per ban on average
      251 single-merit users banned

High ranking spammers will never earn back their rank thanks to the Merit system. And although the Merit system can't stop the existing spam problem, it stopped it from getting worse.

You (KingZee) seem to be on a tirade against the Merit system. You've been gone from the forum for a while, so you've probably missed that many others did that before you. It's not going to change the Merit system.
In an ideal situation we wouldn't need the Merit system, or even better: all posts would deserve Merit. But we're far from that, and Merit is the best we've got for now.

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October 17, 2018, 04:04:36 PM
 #5354

High ranking spammers will never earn back their rank thanks to the Merit system. And although the Merit system can't stop the existing spam problem, it stopped it from getting worse.

You (KingZee) seem to be on a tirade against the Merit system. You've been gone from the forum for a while, so you've probably missed that many others did that before you. It's not going to change the Merit system.
In an ideal situation we wouldn't need the Merit system, or even better: all posts would deserve Merit. But we're far from that, and Merit is the best we've got for now.

The absolute best thing that's happened to this forum in recent months is implementation of merit required to be a Jr Member. I really liked Hilariousetc's opinion of requiring 10 merits, not just one (as I think it's a little too easy to beg for 1 merit), but at least it's a step in the right direction. Making it harder for spambots and bounty account farmers will radically improve the quality of posting on the forums.

And while I do agree that it can be challenging at time to get merit, if you are sincerely interested in Bitcoin and this forum for the long run, the merits will come, whether you're a newbie who just got on the forum or a oldie who's been inactive for awhile.
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October 17, 2018, 05:28:55 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2018, 07:21:07 PM by DdmrDdmr
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), KingZee (1)
 #5355

<…>Out of all the newbies/jrs/fulls/srs who DID get merit -which I'm going to assume means they're not spamming, if you can agree to that- what's the average merit they received per post, and what's the average of unique members that merited those newbies/jrs/fulls per post.
Just these two for each member rank, then do it for legendaries and heroes too. If the stats are evenly distributed i'll never mention this topic again.<…>
I just modified the Merit Dashboard to get an approximation to what you are looking for, by adding Rank Filters to a Tab I has already running.
If we go to the Tab called “Post Summary”, we can easily see some of the averages you’re on about. I guess that when you say average merit per post, the context is not of all the created post, but rather all the merited posts. This latter approach is what this tab verses about.

Applying the filters, it turns out that (summary of what can be seen on the Dashboard):

Newbies:
71,69% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
12,99% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
85,88% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
9,79% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

Jr. Member:
76,66% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
13,16% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
89,36% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
7,92% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

Member:
62,25% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
18,11% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
79,90% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
11,82% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

Full Member:
67,85% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
14,62% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
79,84% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
12,04% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

Sr. Member:
67,40% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
14,35% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
78,56% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
11,84% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

Hero Member:
70,05% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
14,06% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
81,15% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
11,89% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

Legendary Member:
74,29% of the received sMerit TXs are of 1 sMerit each.
12,50% of the received sMerit TXs are of 2 sMerits each.
79,62% of merited posts are merited by 1 single person (1Tx).
13,00% of merited posts are merited by 2 people (2Txs)

There are obviously some differences between ranks in terms of received merit distribution, but nothing too extreme that would indicate that the higher ranks have an easy life getting merit. Forget the outlier cases you see around. The norm is another one, when you take into consideration forum wide data.

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October 17, 2018, 08:03:46 PM
 #5356


There are obviously some differences between ranks in terms of received merit distribution, but nothing too extreme that would indicate that the higher ranks have an easy life getting merit. Forget the outlier cases you see around. The norm is another one, when you take into consideration forum wide data.

I love your website, I'm sending you my last sMerit because I spent my other 3 ironically.

One thing about the data you're presenting : It's a local comparison. In other words,

"71,69% newbie TXs out of all newbie TXs are of 1 sMerit each." and so on.. It's only natural that for each specific rank, the number of 1 Merit TXs are the majority out of all the transactions towards that specific rank. What I would like to know is :

Total number of 1 Merit Tx to Newbie merited posts / Total Number of 1 Merit Tx to all merited posts.
Total number of 1 Merit Tx to Member merited posts / Total Number of 1 Merit Tx to all merited posts.
...
and so on varying by Merit and by Ranks.

That way we would be able to see the distribution of all Merit by post, taking into consideration the ranks of the users posting them.



On the other hand, it's funny how people feel so patriotic about spending their merit points.. 50% of Full member outgoing transactions were towards members and full members. Same 40% of all Legendary outgoing transactions were towards Legendary and Hero members.

This would be okay if the flat value of merits being exchanged here was the same, but it's clearly not as the flat value of sMerits of Legendary and Hero members is obviously much higher than that of lower ranks..

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October 17, 2018, 09:46:38 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2018, 11:25:27 PM by cryptovigi
 #5357

...


On the other hand, it's funny how people feel so patriotic about spending their merit points.. 50% of Full member outgoing transactions were towards members and full members. Same 40% of all Legendary outgoing transactions were towards Legendary and Hero members.

This would be okay if the flat value of merits being exchanged here was the same, but it's clearly not as the flat value of sMerits of Legendary and Hero members is obviously much higher than that of lower ranks..

I love statistics, because depending on the assumption, you can prove almost everything

You say: "40% of all Legendary outgoing transactions were towards Legendary and Hero members"

I say: Legendary gives almost equal merit amount to Members, Full Members, Senior Members and Hero Members, and they also give almost the same amount of for low ranked users (Newbies, Juniors and Members) - 23,45% as for other Legendary 26,10%

You say: "50% of Full member outgoing transactions were towards members and full members"
I say: Full Members gives the same amount of merits to lower ranked members - Juniors and Members 41,13% as to semi ranked - Full Members and Seniors 41,96%

I can also say that:
Hero Members gives almost equal amount of merits to Legendary, Senior Members, Full Members and Members... What's interesting here: each lower rank gets more merits than higher one...

Junior Members give just the same amount to Newbies - 4,54% as to Legendary - 4,54%....


and so on....

So you showed how only injustice of Merit system I see in the same data that it is not so bad...

Of course as it was said may times it's not perfect... probably it's also not very good... For sure there some abuses, there are guys who give more merits to their friends than to others especially newbies (just like in real life), native English speakers are favored (although this is global forum)...  but for sure it can't be said that merits are held by few guys who don't let anyone into their table...





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October 18, 2018, 03:37:19 AM
Merited by Pan Troglodytes (1)
 #5358

~

Are we really going to argue on outliers? I'm not backing any hard truth or absolute claim when I say that 40% of legendary outgoing is towards hero/legendary, etc..

But are you seriously going to deny that the distribution isn't biased? The picture clearly shows that almost for every rank, they're more likely to merit their same rank, rather than a much higher or a much lower rank. That goes for EVERYONE, NOT JUST HEROES AND LEGENDARIES.

But I mentioned in my last post that I still needed to see flat merit value. It makes more sense to see how MANY merit points are being transactionned here. It was there on the table, I just never noticed it:



These are the total number of merits in outgoing transactions from X rank to Y rank. I'm not going to say anything to interpret this table.

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October 18, 2018, 09:46:13 AM
Last edit: October 18, 2018, 10:30:29 AM by cryptovigi
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5359

..
Are we really going to argue on outliers? I'm not backing any hard truth or absolute claim when I say that 40% of legendary outgoing is towards hero/legendary, etc..
...

I don't argue I was showing that the same data may be interpreated in different ways and both possitive and negative ways can be correct at the same time.....

...
But are you seriously going to deny that the distribution isn't biased? The picture clearly shows that almost for every rank, they're more likely to merit their same rank, rather than a much higher or a much lower rank. That goes for EVERYONE, NOT JUST HEROES AND LEGENDARIES.
....

Looking at this data one very important thing is missed. They are not showing the whole truth (unless @DdmrDdmr correct me). I've checked it on my own example and saw that data about rank aren't stored each time merit is given - they are current.

That means if you see that hero gave 101 merits to Full Member - it's also possible that he gave 1 merit to newbie, 9 merits to Jr. Member and 90 merits to Member and only one merit to Full Member (data doesn't remember about promotions).
For example - I was given 4 merits being Newbie another 6 being Jr. Member but on this table all merit I was given fell into Members group...

If I'm right we see only merits for Newbies who haven't ranked yet (i.e. to less activity) as well as Jr. Members or Members what means that there was much more merits given to the low ranked members than you see on that table...

I don't have all current data but according to my "old set":


you see that more than 104k merits 43% came to users who at january 2018 was Newbie/Jr Member/Member or didn't existed at all... I think it's not so bad...





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October 18, 2018, 10:15:07 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5360

<...>Looking at this data one very important thing is missed. They are not showing the whole truth (unless @DdmrDdmr correct me). I've checked it on my own example and saw that data about rank aren't stored each time merit is given - they are current. <...>
Yes you are right, I stated so on the OP of the Merit Dashboard thread (on a note). Ranks shown are current ranks, not the actual rank at the time of the awarding of every single sMerit (which would be the ideal tracking, but is not feasible from the outside). It is also interesting to play around with the Date Range filter and see how the proportions shift in some segments over time.

<…>One thing about the data you're presenting : It's a local comparison.<…>
Yes,  it is as you say a rank-base view, but it does show a point I wanted to make, and that is that most merit TXs are of either one or two merits, and most posts get merited by either one or two people at most, regardless of the rank. This patterns barely shows differently on the higher ranks than on the lower ranks.

That does have a collateral reading in my opinion: if you look at it from the point of view of what is required for an account to reach the next level, if the majority of posts are merited in a similar quantity regardless of the rank, then the marginal contribution of each merited posts is very low for higher ranks (i.e. 1 sMerit is 10% of that needed for a Jr. Member to get to Member, but 0,2% of what a Hero needs to get to Legendary). Of course, this also depends on the number of posts one gets merited on.

<…> What I would like to know is :
Total number of 1 Merit Tx to Newbie merited posts / Total Number of 1 Merit Tx to all merited posts.
Total number of 1 Merit Tx to Member merited posts / Total Number of 1 Merit Tx to all merited posts.
and so on varying by Merit and by Ranks.
Something like this:
Code:
TXMer. toRank       nTXs nUsers %1MerTXs%Users AvgTX/User
1 Founder         98 1 0,12% 0,01% 98
1 Administrator 640 2 0,81% 0,01% 320
1 Global Mod. 192 3 0,24% 0,02% 64
1 Staff         1079 25 1,36% 0,13% 43,16
1 VIP          56 4 0,07% 0,02% 14
1 Donator         351 21 0,44% 0,11% 16,72
1 Legendary 15499 1060 19,59% 5,72% 14,62
1 Hero Member 8304 948 10,50% 5,11% 8,76
1 Sr. Member 11545 1517 14,60% 8,18% 7,61
1 Full Member 13191 2645 16,68% 14,26% 4,99
1 Member         15523 3873 19,63% 20,88% 4,01
1 Jr. Member 9894 6507 12,51% 35,08% 1,52
1 Newbie         2588 1862 3,27% 10,04% 1,39
1 Brand new 138 79 0,17% 0,43% 1,75
I’ve only done it here for 1 sMerit TXs, since anything more is too long here and is better suited in any case on a thread of its own. We could go into the details, but I wouldn't like to extend myself further here.

<…> On the other hand, it's funny how people feel so patriotic about spending their merit points <…>
It’s not that easy to interpret. Legendries do give more sMerit to Legendries on the whole, but are ones who enable more lower ranks into the game. Heroes award more evenly amongst ranks down to Members, and even award less to their own rank. Sr. Members are rather even amongst three rank levels, but on aggregate have awarded similar amounts to Legendries, Heroes and Jr. Members. Members seem more self-centred on their rank, and then favour the nearest ranks on equal parts. Jr. Members favor preferently their own rank, and the one above, way above higher ranks.

There are likely many factors involved, amongst which are psychological featured ones, that influence certain ranks being more prone to merit someone from the neighbouring ranks on a similar roadmap, or whatnot.

What I do find is that there is normally a large difference in the posting style of higher ranks versus lower ranks. This is obviously not an absolute truth, and there are plenty of exceptions on either end, but as personal perception, it makes it clear for me to a large extent why higher ranks get more merited than lower ranks.


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