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[ICFiedler]

Wouldnt that lead to most offers being placed in the "dark"?

And will those trades show up in the volume?

Well, it costs an additional fee of 0.1%, so I guess that will keep people from placing dark orders. Also, the volume will probably lower than in the normal order book. So, even without a minimum limit to dark orders I do not think dark orders will be the dominant order type.

[bernard75]

Not when the orders are limited to 50, but when i place an order over 2BTC, i really wouldn't care about the premium, just to protect me from the bots.
Anyway, i believe the Kraken offer to be sound.

[Dargo]

Yes, the minimum is 50 BTC. It could be lowered some (say maybe to 25 BTC) if we get enough requests for that. The idea behind it is to be able to place large orders without others knowing, since if other traders know about your large buy/sell interest, this might cause the market to move against you and make it harder to fill your order. So it's intended specifically as a service for placing large orders.

Yes this a good reason. But as far as I know, other exchanges have no special minimum limit for dark orders.

Because you can add the argument:
Also for small orders it could get difficult to get filled, when there are alot of bots active.
Some aggressive bots are written that way, that they will always overbid you 0.01€ or simular. By making your order a dark order, these bots would not know about your order and would not overbid you.

So I think there should not be a limit, because both arguments have the same "value"

I believe LakeBTC offers a dark pool, and their minimum order is also 50 BTC. Remember that the dark pool is a separate market with a separate hidden order book. It's not intended as a market for bots to run on. The sole purpose of the market is as place where people can place large orders discretely. If you allow small order size, then people can now probe the hidden book with small orders to try and figure out where the orders are, so it undermines the privacy somewhat. One use case for the dark pool might be where someone puts up 10,000 BTC to sell and has previously arranged with someone else to put up a matching sell order to take it. Both parties want this to happen in private and are willing to pay an extra 0.1% fee for the privacy.

But there is a different product that is also useful, even more useful to some, and offered by some other exchanges - namely hidden orders that go to the lit pool (i.e. the normal visible order book). This type of order would be useful for dealing with the bots on the lit pool and here I agree that it does make sense to allow for smaller orders. This is something we are also looking at offering, but we consider it to be a separate product. So, stay tuned, and maybe you will be able to place hidden orders to the lit pool if that feature appeals to you.  

[bernard75]

And will those trades show up in the volume?

[KrakenTrader]

I have this case using the dark pool.

-I create a margin long limit order like:  BUY 50 XBT/EUR.d  LIMIT 200,  with conditional close LIMIT 202
-The order doesn't appear in the order book (dark pool) and gets filled slowly.
-Now, each time the order gets filled, a conditional close limit 200 order gets created until the buy order got filled completely.

Question:
Are these automatically created conditional close orders going to be invisible as well ( dark pool )  ?
This question arises, because the limit for a dark pool order is 50BTC.


EDIT:
I just realized that dark pool operates on a separate order book, so a 50BTC dark pool order would have to get filled at once, as the current minimum has been set to 50BTC.
So I assume a conditional close order would have to appear on the very same dark pool order book and thus would not appear to the public as well.

[Dargo]

And will those trades show up in the volume?

Yes, good question. We are still discussing how to handle the dark pool volume. However it gets reported, it would definitely be done with a delay though. 

[Dargo]

I have this case using the dark pool.

-I create a margin long limit order like:  BUY 50 XBT/EUR.d  LIMIT 200,  with conditional close LIMIT 202
-The order doesn't appear in the order book (dark pool) and gets filled slowly.
-Now, each time the order gets filled, a conditional close limit 200 order gets created until the buy order got filled completely.

Question:
Are these automatically created conditional close orders going to be invisible as well ( dark pool )  ?
This question arises, because the limit for a dark pool order is 50BTC.


EDIT:
I just realized that dark pool operates on a separate order book, so a 50BTC dark pool order would have to get filled at once, as the current minimum has been set to 50BTC.
So I assume a conditional close order would have to appear on the very same dark pool order book and thus would not appear to the public as well.

The conditional close feature should be disabled for the dark pool. I just tested this and found it to be disabled. Also, margin is disabled for the dark pool. So my guess is that you probably created a regular margin order on the XBT/EUR pair and didn't actually have the XBT/EUR.d pair selected.

[Serpens66]

I believe LakeBTC offers a dark pool, and their minimum order is also 50 BTC. Remember that the dark pool is a separate market with a separate hidden order book. It's not intended as a market for bots to run on. The sole purpose of the market is as place where people can place large orders discretely. If you allow small order size, then people can now probe the hidden book with small orders to try and figure out where the orders are, so it undermines the privacy somewhat. One use case for the dark pool might be where someone puts up 10,000 BTC to sell and has previously arranged with someone else to put up a matching sell order to take it. Both parties want this to happen in private and are willing to pay an extra 0.1% fee for the privacy.

But there is a different product that is also useful, even more useful to some, and offered by some other exchanges - namely hidden orders that go to the lit pool (i.e. the normal visible order book). This type of order would be useful for dealing with the bots on the lit pool and here I agree that it does make sense to allow for smaller orders. This is something we are also looking at offering, but we consider it to be a separate product. So, stay tuned, and maybe you will be able to place hidden orders to the lit pool if that feature appeals to you.  

aaaah , I overread Yunus answer, that there are seperated orderbooks!
And I mixed up dark order - hidden orders, and thought they would be the same.

Thanks for clarifying this!   So yes, the minimum size is good, but when introducing hidden orders, there should be a lower limit

[Newar]

This has probably be mentioned before, but can you review the 0.0005 BTC miner fee? Fee calculation has been optimized since 0.10.0, IIRC.

[FlensGold]

I have a problem sending Litecoins to Kraken. My electrum-ltc always returns an error "error:{u'message':u TX rejected', u'code':-22}" when sending LTC to kraken. I already created a new ltc address but the problem remains.
I do not get this problem sending to other addresses. Does anyone have an idea what could cause this?
Kind regards

Edit:
After trying againg and again the last 1-2h it finally worked now. No idea what happened...

[jack101]

Litecoin withdrawal issues anyone?

It is telling me the max I can withdraw is 0.00027, no Litecoins on withheld. Currently over 300 Litecoins in my Kraken account. What is going on?
No limits hit etc

[Dargo]

Litecoin withdrawal issues anyone?

It is telling me the max I can withdraw is 0.00027, no Litecoins on withheld. Currently over 300 Litecoins in my Kraken account. What is going on?
No limits hit etc

I see one support ticket about this kind of issue (maybe yours), but in that case the client has already been able to withdraw their litecoin. Are you still having an issue?

[Dargo]

I have a problem sending Litecoins to Kraken. My electrum-ltc always returns an error "error:{u'message':u TX rejected', u'code':-22}" when sending LTC to kraken. I already created a new ltc address but the problem remains.
I do not get this problem sending to other addresses. Does anyone have an idea what could cause this?
Kind regards

Edit:
After trying againg and again the last 1-2h it finally worked now. No idea what happened...

It's probably an electrum issue (but the error code is actually from bitcoind) - some possible reasons are:

You were trying to send coins that hadn't received 120 confirmations yet
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248072.0

You tried to send the same transaction twice
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8401/electrum-error-message-22

If those don't fit, try googling the error code and see if any of the hits explain it.

[Dargo]

This has probably be mentioned before, but can you review the 0.0005 BTC miner fee? Fee calculation has been optimized since 0.10.0, IIRC.

We have a highly customized wallet system that doesn't use the latest bitcoind fee calculator. I'll see if the system can be updated to be more in line with what you'd expect from bitcoind though.

[Serpens66]

And another topic:
The minimum amount of an normal order is 0.01BTC, even via API, right? How is it possible that sometimes there are alot of orders lower than that? It was like 0.001BTC every 5 cents.  So it could not be partially filled orders.  Is there a way to place orders lower than 0.01BTC ?
If wanted I can take a screenshot next time I see it.

Let me (or Dargo) get back to you about (b), the minimal order size

Anything new about this? The order I'm talking about is 0.005BTC and the person/bot who place it is active at the moment:
Screenshot:  http://www11.pic-upload.de/20.06.15/t9h3fw2k1qxq.jpg

This is really annoying, since one strategy of my bot is to buy an order with the same amount. So if one 0.005BTC order is the best selling price, my bot tries to buy 0.005BTC at this price.  But because of your minimum amount my bot can'T do this, so it does simply nothing.

Of course I could modify my bot to check the next best order in orderbook, but this would take alot of programming.

So how does this user creates 0.005BTC order?!?!

[kraken.austin]

Thank you Serpens66.

We can understand your frustration and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

I've messaged you 1-on-1 so we can resolve your issue.

[Dargo]

Thank you Serpens66.

We can understand your frustration and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

I've messaged you 1-on-1 so we can resolve your issue.

I confirm that kraken.austin works for Kraken. kraken.austin will be helping Yunus and I to represent Kraken on bitcointalk.

I'm sorry we didn't reply about the minimum order issue back when it was first asked about. I think there was a miscommunication between Yunus and I about which one of us was going to follow up on it. We are looking into it and I'll post something more when I have more information.

[amacar1]

Anything new about lowering confirmations from 6 to 3?

[Dargo]

Anything new about lowering confirmations from 6 to 3?

I don't have anything specific to announce about it yet, but we are considering this.

[Amph]

one thing that is annoying me to death, can you do that when you visit the website you are already in the sing-in tab? because some times, i forget about that and i start writing my password on the sign-up field...