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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2032123 times)
wachtwoord
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September 03, 2014, 08:42:01 PM
 #11541

the fact that we're finally starting to see transactional increase is an incredibly positive thing.

All time high! Metcalfe's law Smiley
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cypherdoc (OP)
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September 03, 2014, 08:46:54 PM
Last edit: September 03, 2014, 08:57:00 PM by cypherdoc
 #11542

Quote
Fifth, there would be no futures or options markets attached to it.

Bitcoin has futures and options markets.

i think the key here is that you can't print the underlying BTC.

it's also important to have a number of exchanges spread worldwide so that no one exchange could be dominant or manipulated by a gvt.  no cash settlements allowed either, if one borrows BTC to short, they gotta return BTC.  and their leverage margin needs to be limited to reasonable levels.
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September 03, 2014, 08:48:16 PM
 #11543

could Bitcoin be their solution?:

Criminals and corrupt politicians steal $1trn a year from the world's poorest countries

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/criminals-and-corrupt-politicians-steal-1trn-a-year-from-the-worlds-poorest-countries-9707104.html
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September 03, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
 #11544



Doodling....

If you're one of those guys who subscribes to repeating patterns, it's hard NOT to imagine what happens next.
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September 03, 2014, 09:05:43 PM
 #11545



Doodling....

If you're one of those guys who subscribes to repeating patterns, it's hard NOT to imagine what happens next.

it's incredibly positive.  it kinda creeped up on us after all the yammering Mike Hearn's has done complaining about this.  in fact, it was probably the one negative tick in my checklist that was bugging me all along.  to see it rising like this is great news in my book.
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September 03, 2014, 09:09:29 PM
 #11546

Quote
Fifth, there would be no futures or options markets attached to it.

Bitcoin has futures and options markets.

i think the key here is that you can't print the underlying BTC.

it's also important to have a number of exchanges spread worldwide so that no one exchange could be dominant or manipulated by a gvt.  no cash settlements allowed either, if one borrows BTC to short, they gotta return BTC.  and their leverage margin needs to be limited to reasonable levels.

I think discounting it as a factor is unwise.

With a monetary good price plays an intricate relationship with perception and price-perception. A minimal coin holding leveraged with options and futures can have a large effect on perceptions, as has been done in the commodities markets for managing inflation perceptions and stock markets for managing "wealth effect" perceptions ...

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September 03, 2014, 09:09:58 PM
 #11547

the fact that we're finally starting to see transactional increase is an incredibly positive thing.
All time high! Metcalfe's law Smiley

Not quite, but getting there Smiley




Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
cypherdoc (OP)
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September 03, 2014, 09:18:59 PM
 #11548

Quote
Fifth, there would be no futures or options markets attached to it.

Bitcoin has futures and options markets.

i think the key here is that you can't print the underlying BTC.

it's also important to have a number of exchanges spread worldwide so that no one exchange could be dominant or manipulated by a gvt.  no cash settlements allowed either, if one borrows BTC to short, they gotta return BTC.  and their leverage margin needs to be limited to reasonable levels.

I think discounting it as a factor is unwise.

With a monetary good price plays an intricate relationship with perception and price-perception. A minimal coin holding leveraged with options and futures can have a large effect on perceptions, as has been done in the commodities markets for managing inflation perceptions and stock markets for managing "wealth effect" perceptions ...

no one's dismissing it.  i've been worried about it all along.  it's just that i think manipulation can be capped b/c we're talking about an international monetary unit whose security is in the interest of all nations, not just the US.  these types of manipulations would occur at the exchanges.  the fact that the highest volume exchanges are in China today would make it hard for the US gvt to manipulate Bitcoin at this time, imo.  we need to have a large # spread out round the world, preferably in jurisdictions that vie against each other otherwise, like China, Russia, and the US.
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September 03, 2014, 11:05:49 PM
Last edit: September 03, 2014, 11:19:56 PM by _mr_e
 #11549

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.
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September 03, 2014, 11:32:28 PM
 #11550



Doodling....

If you're one of those guys who subscribes to repeating patterns, it's hard NOT to imagine what happens next.

We have more people spending Bitcoins on stores, so we have a bigger sell pressure we had not before.

Sooner or later Bitcoin will rise due to acceptance, but much blood will be left behind until that happens, it seems.
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September 03, 2014, 11:43:10 PM
 #11551

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
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September 03, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
 #11552

Now I get it -it's been staring in my face for weeks:

You use the word deflation in an unconventional third way, not the economic sense of shrinking money supply, not in the populist sense of shrinking prices, but generally as shrinkage.

Shrinking real wages, shrinking house building, shrinking GDP, shrinking dicks.

Makes sense, although it should be properly agreed upon during a discussion.
 

altho it is still probable that my definition fits the traditional definition of shrinking money supply (monetary base+credit). the problem is i can't find any reliable figures on total aggregate debt over time, including shadow banking, and whether it is shrinking or not.  that chart above of net shadow banking liabilities is a big hint as to what is going on, the question being, whether or not it is being adequately offset by increasing gvt debt and monetary base.

anyone?

Fair. Seeing the world overall, we have government debt creation in Japan and China. China is desperate to reduce debt ratios in businesses, but they can't, when they try they feel the pain with failing businesses all over the place. With money supply deflation, we should see falling prices. We have falling prices in gold and some capital commodities. Commodity prices are where we should expect it first, anyway.


gvt debt creation is a black hole of inefficiency and corruption.  in this transition from increasing private debt to public debt accumulation, productivity is being destroyed.  if the Chinese gvt is desperately trying to reduce debt ratios in private businesses, perhaps they should stop and look at themselves first; oh my, not gonna happen.  this is called the heavy hand of regulation that is even more oppressing and destructive.  think Ben Lawsky.  actually, if you look at the prices of a variety of commodities, they have been falling along with oil since the beginning of the year.  what will really be concerning would be a fall in financial speculative asset prices, like the stock mkt.

That's right, productivity is falling, the need for debt creation is rising exponentially. That is why the system will break. My guess is, something will happen in China, but it could really start anywhere. Cross dependensies are everywhere, nobody seems to know where their end of the line collateral for debt really is. Aluminium prices down in China could be the reason for a failed beer-producer in Europe. Or some butterfly. Is seems to drag out forever.
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September 04, 2014, 12:16:48 AM
 #11553

Now I get it -it's been staring in my face for weeks:

You use the word deflation in an unconventional third way, not the economic sense of shrinking money supply, not in the populist sense of shrinking prices, but generally as shrinkage.

Shrinking real wages, shrinking house building, shrinking GDP, shrinking dicks.

Makes sense, although it should be properly agreed upon during a discussion.
 

altho it is still probable that my definition fits the traditional definition of shrinking money supply (monetary base+credit). the problem is i can't find any reliable figures on total aggregate debt over time, including shadow banking, and whether it is shrinking or not.  that chart above of net shadow banking liabilities is a big hint as to what is going on, the question being, whether or not it is being adequately offset by increasing gvt debt and monetary base.

anyone?

Fair. Seeing the world overall, we have government debt creation in Japan and China. China is desperate to reduce debt ratios in businesses, but they can't, when they try they feel the pain with failing businesses all over the place. With money supply deflation, we should see falling prices. We have falling prices in gold and some capital commodities. Commodity prices are where we should expect it first, anyway.


gvt debt creation is a black hole of inefficiency and corruption.  in this transition from increasing private debt to public debt accumulation, productivity is being destroyed.  if the Chinese gvt is desperately trying to reduce debt ratios in private businesses, perhaps they should stop and look at themselves first; oh my, not gonna happen.  this is called the heavy hand of regulation that is even more oppressing and destructive.  think Ben Lawsky.  actually, if you look at the prices of a variety of commodities, they have been falling along with oil since the beginning of the year.  what will really be concerning would be a fall in financial speculative asset prices, like the stock mkt.

That's right, productivity is falling, the need for debt creation is rising exponentially. That is why the system will break. My guess is, something will happen in China, but it could really start anywhere. Cross dependensies are everywhere, nobody seems to know where their end of the line collateral for debt really is. Aluminium prices down in China could be the reason for a failed beer-producer in Europe. Or some butterfly. Is seems to drag out forever.


Or just economic sanctions. It seems like all the rage these days to teach thine enemy a lesson, just sanction some shit. Of course they are obligated to sanction something in return. Similar to military conflicts, which pit two or more economies in a war of attrition, a sanction simply reduces the value of those economies by limiting what they can do.

But like you said, dependencies are everywhere. We're all sitting in a spider web of the global economy, attempting to teach a lesson by cutting the strands between us. This results in falling productivity, as there is a smaller market and less incentive to produce, and the whole thing spirals.

The convenient thing about sanctions is that they have an excuse built in. Our economy tanks during the year that one or more "enemies" levied sanctions against us, and it's their fault, making them a bigger enemy, and justifying some more sanctions. But what do they ultimately accomplish? Are the citizens benefiting from their governments limiting who we can buy and sell to, or what kind of currency we can hold? What a silly notion.

So, while any of the economies in the world collapsing is a viable catalyst, let's not forget that they are also working diligently to make each other useless in the meantime.
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September 04, 2014, 01:00:49 AM
 #11554

"no one's dismissing it.  i've been worried about it all along.  it's just that i think manipulation can be capped b/c we're talking about an international monetary unit whose security is in the interest of all nations, not just the US.  these types of manipulations would occur at the exchanges.  the fact that the highest volume exchanges are in China today would make it hard for the US gvt to manipulate Bitcoin at this time, imo.  we need to have a large # spread out round the world, preferably in jurisdictions that vie against each other otherwise, like China, Russia, and the US."

I think that may be the key. If Satoshi had read those five criteria -- and he probably did -- then he may have surmised that the only way bitcoins could avoid being manipulated would be for it to become a universal and dominant currency.  I wonder if he anticipated so many alts being created.
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September 04, 2014, 01:09:16 AM
 #11555

"no one's dismissing it.  i've been worried about it all along.  it's just that i think manipulation can be capped b/c we're talking about an international monetary unit whose security is in the interest of all nations, not just the US.  these types of manipulations would occur at the exchanges.  the fact that the highest volume exchanges are in China today would make it hard for the US gvt to manipulate Bitcoin at this time, imo.  we need to have a large # spread out round the world, preferably in jurisdictions that vie against each other otherwise, like China, Russia, and the US."

I think that may be the key. If Satoshi had read those five criteria -- and he probably did -- then he may have surmised that the only way bitcoins could avoid being manipulated would be for it to become a universal and dominant currency.  I wonder if he anticipated so many alts being created.

yes, it's just decentralization at the exchange level. tbh, it's actually looking quite good at the moment with so many exchanges in so many different countries.  if anything, the US is behind, mainly b/c the apparatchiks are sensing USD danger from Bitcoin.  they need to wake the hell up quick as time is running out and businesses are anticipating that NYDFS won't get an epiphany.

while the alts have subtracted from Bitcoin in the short term, i think that will dissipate if not disappear entirely in the long term.
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September 04, 2014, 01:16:59 AM
 #11556

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

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September 04, 2014, 01:23:38 AM
 #11557

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!



Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
wachtwoord
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September 04, 2014, 01:24:20 AM
 #11558

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

I read it start to finish. There's no plan in there at all and the idea doesn't seem realizable at all.

BTW: Who are my peers?  Wink
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September 04, 2014, 01:29:52 AM
 #11559

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!


hahaha thats brilliant..lol

@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

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wachtwoord
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September 04, 2014, 01:34:39 AM
 #11560


@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

It will indeed Smiley

I read it because I wanted to know what all the fuss was about.
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