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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1939050 times)
zeetubes
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September 19, 2014, 12:17:07 AM
 #12321

Patterns are imaginary. The trick is to understand how imagination works.

true, but my imagination on gold has worked so far. Cheesy

Yup. I'm not comfortable shorting gold because the cost of production is too close to the cost per oz. But I'm not comfortable going long because of the power of the paper market. The stock markets and real estate look scary and I can't shake the feeling that btc is being supressed. Maybe it's one of cash is king moments.
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cypherdoc
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September 19, 2014, 12:36:30 AM
 #12322

disgusting bankers:

Those soft-hearted bankers expressed a concern that without adquate consumer protections, users of Bitcoin would be vulnerable to fraud and theft.  Bankers also suggested, presumably out of a concern for national security, that Bitcoin be subject to the same anti-money-laundering procedures, including Know-Your-Consumer, that banks are subjected to.  Bankers explicitly suggested that Bitcoin be subjected to the suspicious activities reports (SARs) that banks must currently file. Personally, this all sounds like an attempt at “raising rivals’ costs” to me.

http://www.cato.org/blog/bankers-advise-fed-regulate-bitcoin
iCEBREAKER
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September 19, 2014, 12:56:51 AM
 #12323

gold up, btc down 70% ytd and counting lol

btc will be a blip in history in 50 yrs, gold will be as good as gold 1000 yrs from now.

And that's where you're wrong. The world is going digital, something that never existed before. Gold can't compete in a digital world. Bitcoin can. Forget that and you'll pay the price.

The lights won't stay on for another 1000 years.  Unless Singularity and/or Bitcoin usher in 1000 years of Bitopia.

As far as our lifespans go, the old ceiling of gold parity will soon be the new floor.  Bitcoin is much rarer (and more easily stored/transmitted/audited/verified) than gold.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
marcus_of_augustus
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September 19, 2014, 01:06:40 AM
 #12324

Quote
Yup. I'm not comfortable shorting gold because the cost of production is too close to the cost per oz. But I'm not comfortable going long because of the power of the paper market. The stock markets and real estate look scary and I can't shake the feeling that btc is being supressed. Maybe it's one of fiat cash is king moments
... is what you meant right?

STT
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September 19, 2014, 01:13:27 AM
 #12325

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The world is going digital, something that never existed before. Gold can't compete in a digital world

All it takes is a Electromagnetic pulse and you'd find out why just one store of wealth is not happening.   Or a really bad solar flare, feasible events.  

Its very easy for gold to be digital, what is less likely is the distributed network that btc has.    Dollars can be backed by gold and so value can be transmitted without chopping up bits of gold


Quote
Gold will still be gold a 1000 years from now but it will never be money again for the majority of the worlds population just like pigeon mail will never be a future mode of communication

Dont you think we could replace gold a long time before 1972.   If it needed to be replaced it would have, its been there thousands of years because the one constant is human nature; such as every generation believing they have surpassed the mistakes of the last and then right after repeating those same mistakes
zeetubes
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September 19, 2014, 01:22:52 AM
 #12326

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Yup. I'm not comfortable shorting gold because the cost of production is too close to the cost per oz. But I'm not comfortable going long because of the power of the paper market. The stock markets and real estate look scary and I can't shake the feeling that btc is being supressed. Maybe it's one of fiat cash is king moments
... is what you meant right?

Haha yes. I should have been more specific. One of the best investment strategies ever. Just sit and wait for something interesting to come along. But the dollar's 'strength' is a mirage right now as every currency races to the bottom.
cypherdoc
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September 19, 2014, 01:22:56 AM
 #12327

Congratulations goes to Trader Steve and the new Bitcoin ATM in San Diego at Johnny Brown's:

First Bitcoin ATM machine comes to San Diego

http://www.kusi.com/story/26572142/first-bitcoin-atm-machine-comes-to-san-diego

please support these guys anytime you're in San Diego!
marcus_of_augustus
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September 19, 2014, 01:24:49 AM
 #12328

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Before the agricultural revolution, it took humanity about one million years on average to develop enough infrastructure/capability to support an additional one million humans living at subsistence levels. After the agricultural revolution, that changed to talking only a few hundred years. Now, after the industrial revolution, that takes 90 minutes on average.

Think about that. Humanity and civilization are changing faster than they ever have before, by many orders of magnitude, and the digitization and electronic interconnectedness of the world is only accelerating that pace.


I think you mean ~90 hours per million?  (75 million per year)

... and this raises a further very important consideration. Actual population growth rates in the world are about to decline (~40 million per annum by 2050) due to increase in wealth of the developing world above subsistence level and widespread contraception etc as the West has already undergone.

What does this mean? At the same time technology and productiveness is increasing exponentially, population will be lowering to stagnating ... i.e. massively deflationary forces. The globe needs a deflationary currency to prevent over-supply, gluts, malinvestments and huge wealth inequality, capital stagnating in pools.

Human wealth valuation is non-linear, capital generally functions linearly in it's effectiveness. This is a major mathematical problem for money as a technology to solve.

User705
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September 19, 2014, 01:30:19 AM
 #12329

Quote
The world is going digital, something that never existed before. Gold can't compete in a digital world

All it takes is a Electromagnetic pulse and you'd find out why just one store of wealth is not happening.   Or a really bad solar flare, feasible events.  

Its very easy for gold to be digital, what is less likely is the distributed network that btc has.    Dollars can be backed by gold and so value can be transmitted without chopping up bits of gold


Quote
Gold will still be gold a 1000 years from now but it will never be money again for the majority of the worlds population just like pigeon mail will never be a future mode of communication

Dont you think we could replace gold a long time before 1972.   If it needed to be replaced it would have, its been there thousands of years because the one constant is human nature; such as every generation believing they have surpassed the mistakes of the last and then right after repeating those same mistakes
Who's "we"? 
You can not digitize gold unless you've invented a Star Trek transporter.  You can digitize gold obligations which are only as good as whoever is digitizing them.  And an Emp / solar flair will screw that up just like bitcoin.
cypherdoc
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September 19, 2014, 01:37:57 AM
 #12330

Gold tanking collapsing again:

cypherdoc
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September 19, 2014, 01:40:24 AM
 #12331



All it takes is a Electromagnetic pulse and you'd find out why just one store of wealth is not happening.   Or a really bad solar flare, feasible events.  


c'mon man, when's the last time that happened?  have you heard of backups?
Melbustus
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September 19, 2014, 01:43:51 AM
 #12332

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Before the agricultural revolution, it took humanity about one million years on average to develop enough infrastructure/capability to support an additional one million humans living at subsistence levels. After the agricultural revolution, that changed to talking only a few hundred years. Now, after the industrial revolution, that takes 90 minutes on average.

Think about that. Humanity and civilization are changing faster than they ever have before, by many orders of magnitude, and the digitization and electronic interconnectedness of the world is only accelerating that pace.


I think you mean ~90 hours per million?  (75 million per year)



No, it's minutes. Just double checked:



Note that it's not talking about straight population growth, but about the level of economic activity/wealth created per unit time that can theoretically support a given amount of population growth. This is from Bostrom's new "Superintelligence" book: http://www.amazon.com/Superintelligence-Dangers-Strategies-Nick-Bostrom/dp/0199678111



Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
Hunyadi
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September 19, 2014, 04:19:09 AM
 #12333

Interesting article about Alibaba's IPO and the price of bitcoin. Also, correlation between gold and bitcoin mentioned.  Cheesy

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/16481/bitcoin-price-dropped-today/

▂▃▅▇█▓▒░BTC-Cultist░▒▓█▇▅▃▂
Syke
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September 19, 2014, 04:54:48 AM
 #12334

All it takes is a Electromagnetic pulse and you'd find out why just one store of wealth is not happening.   Or a really bad solar flare, feasible events.  
c'mon man, when's the last time that happened?  have you heard of backups?

Exactly. Bitcoin is highly redundant. The source code is duplicated all over the place. There are copies of the blockchain scattered throughout the world, on hard drives, on flash drives, on optical discs, etc.

Buy & Hold
Trader Steve
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September 19, 2014, 04:56:35 AM
 #12335

Congratulations goes to Trader Steve and the new Bitcoin ATM in San Diego at Johnny Brown's:

First Bitcoin ATM machine comes to San Diego

http://www.kusi.com/story/26572142/first-bitcoin-atm-machine-comes-to-san-diego

please support these guys anytime you're in San Diego!

Thanks! Here are 3 of the interviews I did today:

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/sd6-in-the-morning/San-Diegos-first-Bitcoin-ATM-275640051.html

http://www.kusi.com/story/26572142/first-bitcoin-atm-machine-comes-to-san-diego

http://www.cbs8.com/story/26570332/san-diego-gets-its-first-bitcoin-atm


cypherdoc
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September 19, 2014, 05:18:59 AM
 #12336


Steve,

you articulated the most succinct, logical, & pertinent rapid fire explanations of Bitcoin Freedom under time pressure i've ever seen to date.  congratulations. this is a big deal.
Peter R
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September 19, 2014, 05:19:27 AM
 #12337


Awesome.  Congrats Steve!!

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
cypherdoc
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September 19, 2014, 05:28:01 AM
 #12338

All it takes is a Electromagnetic pulse and you'd find out why just one store of wealth is not happening.   Or a really bad solar flare, feasible events.  
c'mon man, when's the last time that happened?  have you heard of backups?

Exactly. Bitcoin is highly redundant. The source code is duplicated all over the place. There are copies of the blockchain scattered throughout the world, on hard drives, on flash drives, on optical discs, etc.

and soon we'll have copies in space via jgarzik's cubesat.
calian
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September 19, 2014, 08:36:38 AM
 #12339


Steve,

you articulated the most succinct, logical, & pertinent rapid fire explanations of Bitcoin Freedom under time pressure i've ever seen to date.  congratulations. this is a big deal.
+1 to this. You were landing punches every shot you got in spite of them cutting you off every ten words or so. Did you perform any specific preparation for these appearances or are you just a natural at PR?
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September 19, 2014, 08:52:07 AM
 #12340

Before the agricultural revolution, it took humanity about one million years on average to develop enough infrastructure/capability to support an additional one million humans living at subsistence levels. After the agricultural revolution, that changed to talking only a few hundred years. Now, after the industrial revolution, that takes 90 minutes on average.

There are huge side effects:
http://www.worldwildlife.org/threats/soil-erosion-and-degradation

That's important but the kicker is overall economic growth, we're moving from a meme of more to a meme of better. The problem is the centers of control are working from the ideology of Co opting / controlling the supply of more. Monopolies have no value when people find alternatives,  micro electronics, alternate energy and food security technologies like aquaponics (oh and money) are reshaping everything.

Forget it, Adrian.

In economics, the Jevons paradox (/ˈdʒɛvənz/; sometimes Jevons effect) is the proposition that as technology progresses, the increase in efficiency with which a resource is used tends to increase (rather than decrease) the rate of consumption of that resource.[1] In 1865, the English economist William Stanley Jevons observed that technological improvements that increased the efficiency of coal-use led to the increased consumption of coal in a wide range of industries. He argued that, contrary to common intuition, technological improvements could not be relied upon to reduce fuel consumption.[2]

The issue has been re-examined by modern economists studying consumption rebound effects from improved energy efficiency. In addition to reducing the amount needed for a given use, improved efficiency lowers the relative cost of using a resource, which tends to increase the quantity of the resource demanded, potentially counteracting any savings from increased efficiency. Additionally, increased efficiency accelerates economic growth, further increasing the demand for resources. The Jevons paradox occurs when the effect from increased demand predominates, causing resource use to increase


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

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