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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807331 times)
STT
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September 09, 2014, 05:02:18 AM
 #11801

Thats a great run down, yes Im fan of advancement and acceptance of change through technology and obviously we are no longer all in the fields picking potatoes.  So some see gold as similar waste of time and effort but my point would be we still (desperately) need it  

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Many of us here are betting on a significant and permanent change to the concept of money.
Iam still going to switch back and say the biggest change to money was not this current development but something like what Nixon did in 1972 and has been built on since.   That whole focus switch over to debt, away from productive assets and to stop the distribution of capital among people by centralising money production (ie no link to assets) this meant the failure of capitalism itself .    I dont think bitcoin fixes that, it may bypass some of the effects however which is helpful, but the biggest changes are to democracy and various 'rights' perhaps.  

I dont think this is a mainly technology change occurring now, we are just the side menu

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September 09, 2014, 09:15:50 AM
 #11802

Gold holders moving out of etf's

http://www.etftrends.com/2014/09/gold-bugs-flinch-as-etf-departures-escalate/?utm_content=8020325&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
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September 09, 2014, 10:04:07 AM
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yes, the powers that be want you to be invested in stocks and real estate and they're tired of asking nicely. Smiley
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September 09, 2014, 11:08:42 AM
 #11804

Who made this? Maybe bitcoin fanatics wrote this one.
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September 09, 2014, 11:13:24 AM
 #11805

Gold collapsing? I don't follow the metal prices. Link?

For years gold is one of the 3 things that doesnt depreciate. You think Gold Reserves of the US doesnt regulate these things?
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September 09, 2014, 11:21:04 AM
 #11806

Gold collapsing? I don't follow the metal prices. Link?

For years gold is one of the 3 things that doesnt depreciate. You think Gold Reserves of the US doesnt regulate these things?

You assume there is still gold left in those reserves?

Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
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September 09, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
 #11807

How high a proportion of the world's gold would need to be with one entity (e.g. the Chinese gov't), given a viable alternative to the rest of us as a store of value were an option, for gov'ts and people worldwide to go: 'nah, I'm not playing the game of gold having a substantial store of value anymore, we're just going to buy it for pretty things and industrial use' and it's value permanently dive off a cliff to somewhere relative to its demand for those other things?

If you have a machine on 24/7 why not have a full Bitcoin client running on it to support the network?
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September 09, 2014, 12:13:30 PM
 #11808

How high a proportion of the world's gold would need to be with one entity (e.g. the Chinese gov't), given a viable alternative to the rest of us as a store of value were an option, for gov'ts and people worldwide to go: 'nah, I'm not playing the game of gold having a substantial store of value anymore, we're just going to buy it for pretty things and industrial use' and it's value permanently dive off a cliff to somewhere relative to its demand for those other things?

Up to 80% of the world's physical gold is commanded by the banking cartel, and they have also been campaigning for the demonetization for 1.5 centuries at least.

The plan until crypto was probably that fiat money regime earns them the best fees, but even if they lose control, they have the control of the only alternative also.

I don't believe that a sufficient number of wealthy entities ever discards gold totally, and therefore its monetary premium will stay forever. Only 1% need to care, for gold still to have a high value.

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September 09, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
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Many of us here are betting on a significant and permanent change to the concept of money.
Iam still going to switch back and say the biggest change to money was not this current development but something like what Nixon did in 1972 and has been built on since.   That whole focus switch over to debt, away from productive assets and to stop the distribution of capital among people by centralising money production (ie no link to assets) this meant the failure of capitalism itself .    I dont think bitcoin fixes that, it may bypass some of the effects however which is helpful, but the biggest changes are to democracy and various 'rights' perhaps.  

I dont think this is a mainly technology change occurring now, we are just the side menu

Those are great points and I agree with all of that.

One comment though is it really was Wilson and FDR who created the switch in money to a debt based system, Nixon just inherited the mess and was forced to close the gold window to protect the US's remaining holding. By the time Nixon came to office the run on the US's gold holdings was accelerating since the amount of money and debt created previously was vastly larger than the amount of gold held. This started in the 1950s.



From: http://www.marketskeptics.com/2010/06/draft.html
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September 09, 2014, 06:23:17 PM
 #11810

Up to 80% of the world's physical gold is commanded by the banking cartel, and they have also been campaigning for the demonetization for 1.5 centuries at least.

The plan until crypto was probably that fiat money regime earns them the best fees, but even if they lose control, they have the control of the only alternative also.

I don't believe that a sufficient number of wealthy entities ever discards gold totally, and therefore its monetary premium will stay forever. Only 1% need to care, for gold still to have a high value.

Gold is actually pretty widely distributed, with a majority in private hands via jewelry and to a lesser extent private investment. Central banks have around 18%, not 80%. Of course those are official numbers, they could very well have quite a bit less gold.

From: http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/gold/myb1-2011-gold.pdf
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An estimated 171,300 metric tons (t) of gold was mined historically through 2011, with 29,500 t held by central banks as official stocks, 33,000 t held privately as investment, 84,300 t held privately as jewelry, 20,800 t in other fabricated products, and the remaining 3,600 t unaccounted (Klapwijk and others, 2012, p. 59).

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September 09, 2014, 06:45:40 PM
 #11811

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Unfortunately for gold, it is relatively stagnant in terms of its use.

Well evidentially not as gold usage has declined dramatically in the last century despite being used for millennia.   Certainly in proportion to the amount of cash used this is true, ie. western countries do not value gold where as eastern cultures may still retain and use gold in more regular set patterns still such as the Indian wedding season, etc
 If I estimate any great rise its likely a large reversal of this decline


Quote
This is superior over gold where it's functionality is largely fixed and static. Granted gold's functionality worked very well in the pre-digial era of thousands of years, but in the digital era we can do better.

No I think this is a fallacy.   Im all for technology but some things are constant like human nature and elemental properties.   Every generation thinks they can discard mistakes made previously as obvious and easily avoidable but we havent got past political bias and interference in economies yet.    
Gold is inverse in its function, so yea its nothing new but look at the world now and effects in progress.  Such as the ECB moves recently to increase the magnitude of negative rates and so on.    The need and possible usage for gold or any steady medium of exchange is rising in proportion to systemic failure implemented by unproductive elements of the economy like government or general beaurcarcy.   At some point they'll be so much crap the demand will break badly in favour of any competitive free medium of value exchange

Gold usage for the last 100 years is in an extended local minimum.  This aberration will revert to the historical trend sooner or later.

The last century was dominated by world war and central banks (happy birthday US FED).  FDR banned gold, as did his authoritarian brethren in China, etc.

Now hard money is making a comeback.  Gold is in a 12 year bull run, silver tested ATHs, and the people of the BRICs and other emerging markets are once again able to put into practice the wisdom of the average Indian onion farmer who never stopped hloding (his wife would murder him if he did).

Most of the world's people are not the bi-coastal cosmopolitan elites who are vastly overrepresented on this thread.  Worry about PM vs BTC allocation is a first world problem.  Indian onion farmers are not going to diversify into cryptocash, although their computer savvy children are starting to.

Speaking of human nature, sweet shiny gold/silver/platinum are absolutely guaranteed get you laid.  BTC might also, but only if you are into furries... Shocked

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

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September 10, 2014, 12:20:11 AM
 #11812

Big money are on the way...

How Bitcoin is penetrating RIA portfolios by looking riskier to ignore than embrace

(The next "bubble" will be fun  Grin )
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September 10, 2014, 12:58:16 AM
 #11813

Big money are on the way...

How Bitcoin is penetrating RIA portfolios by looking riskier to ignore than embrace

(The next "bubble" will be fun  Grin )

They are more correctly waves than bubbles since they all have reverted to higher lows, so far.

Big money are here now, confirmed.

From first and second hand discussions with people employed with large financial institutions, including several megabanks, that have active research into bitcoin as an investment strategy or data analytics tool. Notably one with ~US 1.5 T (yes trillion) under private wealth management and a consortium of banks who are interested in establishing a BTC futures clearing platform (apparently legally easier than adopting/handling the BTC itself in their legal/accounting, go figure).

No BS, you heard it here first.

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September 10, 2014, 09:30:20 AM
 #11814

Big money are on the way...

How Bitcoin is penetrating RIA portfolios by looking riskier to ignore than embrace

(The next "bubble" will be fun  Grin )

They are more correctly waves than bubbles since they all have reverted to higher lows, so far.

Big money are here now, confirmed.

From first and second hand discussions with people employed with large financial institutions, including several megabanks, that have active research into bitcoin as an investment strategy or data analytics tool. Notably one with ~US 1.5 T (yes trillion) under private wealth management and a consortium of banks who are interested in establishing a BTC futures clearing platform (apparently legally easier than adopting/handling the BTC itself in their legal/accounting, go figure).

No BS, you heard it here first.


"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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September 10, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
 #11815

Big money are on the way...

How Bitcoin is penetrating RIA portfolios by looking riskier to ignore than embrace

(The next "bubble" will be fun  Grin )
RIA?

BTC: 1K9atu5zgz7izCMAynk5adBJ8Qn2YgS6nT
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September 10, 2014, 10:45:41 AM
 #11816


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_Investment_Advisor

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September 10, 2014, 02:42:09 PM
 #11817

One question, if bitcoin is up in the bitcoin educated countries does that mean that Gold is down too in the third world countries?

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September 10, 2014, 03:10:51 PM
 #11818

Big money are on the way...

How Bitcoin is penetrating RIA portfolios by looking riskier to ignore than embrace

(The next "bubble" will be fun  Grin )

They are more correctly waves than bubbles since they all have reverted to higher lows, so far.

Big money are here now, confirmed.

From first and second hand discussions with people employed with large financial institutions, including several megabanks, that have active research into bitcoin as an investment strategy or data analytics tool. Notably one with ~US 1.5 T (yes trillion) under private wealth management and a consortium of banks who are interested in establishing a BTC futures clearing platform (apparently legally easier than adopting/handling the BTC itself in their legal/accounting, go figure).

No BS, you heard it here first.

Forgot who introduced it (wachtwoord, maybe), but the term "growth spurts" is the most fitting expression imo, though "waves" is still a lot better than "bubbles".

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
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September 10, 2014, 03:21:03 PM
 #11819

Big money are on the way...

How Bitcoin is penetrating RIA portfolios by looking riskier to ignore than embrace

(The next "bubble" will be fun  Grin )

They are more correctly waves than bubbles since they all have reverted to higher lows, so far.

Big money are here now, confirmed.

From first and second hand discussions with people employed with large financial institutions, including several megabanks, that have active research into bitcoin as an investment strategy or data analytics tool. Notably one with ~US 1.5 T (yes trillion) under private wealth management and a consortium of banks who are interested in establishing a BTC futures clearing platform (apparently legally easier than adopting/handling the BTC itself in their legal/accounting, go figure).

No BS, you heard it here first.

Forgot who introduced it (wachtwoord, maybe), but the term "growth spurts" is the most fitting expression imo, though "waves" is still a lot better than "bubbles".

It was, see The fifth growth spurt from December 24, 2013 Smiley

I wish people would adopt this terminology because "bubble" now is even used by the people that don't believe one of the peaks in the growth represents a large overvaluation (which is the meaning of the word bubble).

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September 10, 2014, 04:11:33 PM
 #11820

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin up:

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