Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[tvbcof]

Gold up, Cypherdoc collapsing.

lol.  tv, you're like a little dog, constantly nipping at my heels.

More like a sleek feline waiting to execute a ninja pounce when the timing is right.  (I watched my years worth of cat vids last night )

[1714207588]

1714207588

[1714207588]

1714207588

[cypherdoc]

Gold up, Cypherdoc collapsing.

lol.  tv, you're like a little dog, constantly nipping at my heels.

More like a sleek feline waiting to execute a ninja pounce when the timing is right.  (I watched my years worth of cat vids last night )

lol, fair enough 

[thoughtfan]

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

Get him to buy a Trezor*.  If it's more than play money he's talking about it's not a high price to pay for peace of mind without needing to delve into the depths of the pros and cons, complex processes and precautions involved with the mass of on/off line options there are out there.

I'm definitely with cypherdoc on this one.   The idea that it may 'not [be] important for [a newbie] to learn about bitcoin wallet security' from the very get go is surely asking for tears further down the line.  One of the main points I talk about in any introduction to Bitcoin (usually whilst waiting for a Piper paper wallet to print off that they pressed the button on that I'm going to send 25 mBTC to) is the importance of understanding the challenge of both keeping a private key from hackers and of keeping it such as we don't lose it (forget passwords etc) ourselves.  I usually also use Andreas Antonopolus's story about humans from when someone first wanted to keep a squirrel he'd killed till the following day learned to keep physical stuff safe (hiding stuff is even in the squirrel's DNA) whereas we're useless at backups and security on the whole even though we know we should be more diligent because it's just so new to us.

I don't think owning small amounts of bitcoin on unsecure or make-do wallet solutions encourages someone to learn about security.  There are too many other exciting things about bitcoin to be reading up on.  I believe losing bitcoins is what prompts us to learn more and do better.  If it's just token amounts that's brilliant but more often people don't step up the security as more value is put on a wallet (or the holding increases in value) and that's a precarious position to be in.

This is the trick I use with people like that: I say "If you are not ready to sit down and pay attention to me for half an hour, this is not for you at the moment." It works by activating the opposition reflex.  

Emphatic yes from me!  Even with my careful explanations people sometimes ask as they leave: 'So if I don't spend this for some time or if I lose it you get the bitcoins back do you?'  Those of us familiar with the Bitcoin paradigm and the uncrackability of strong cryptography in general are so used to it it is easy to forget how alien a concept it is to most that a lost or stolen passphrase/private key is the end of their bitcoins.

* or a Piper Wallet printer

[cypherdoc]

yeah, it looks to me that despite yesterdays immediate smack down, ppl are already buying any dip into the low 470's looking to establish yet another higher low.  selling pressure is weakening.

yeah, they can't keep it down

[zeetubes]

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying…

I sent this link to a friend in Canada before, which requires the person to have an RBC account. I'm not sure if he followed these instructions but he did end up with a coinbase account.

https://coinforum.ca/discussion/678/buy-and-sell-bitcoin-with-your-rbc-bank-account

[Adrian-x]

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.

My first reply would be: "why what's up, there are a few option depending on your needs" and take it from there.

I've encouraged those with no technical background to make a blockchain.info wallet and a secure backup. I make a point of telling them of the history of thefts and the safest way to secure Bitcoin, the higher the value the more interest in security.

I use both VoS and CaVirtex, VoS is way more smooth, and as of late they track pretty close. Still I would advise against leaving coins on an exchange - emtygox is a great eg. 

[Grafzep]

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

This is what I mean when I say that questions like this from my friends and acquaintances are always difficult for me to answer.  It's a chicken and egg problem.  Once you're a bitcoin holder, you're more eager to learn about bitcoin security and blockchain technology.  But if the process is too difficult, and if you (think you) just want to speculate on price, then I can see that being bombarded with information about private keys, cold storage, 2FA, etc, etc, could seem like information overload.

Let him set up a proper exchange account (esp if he wants best prices w trading in mind) and point out, as I've done to interested newbs, that all the pia KYC is helping to keep the price down by discouraging casual and impulse buys. It is his price advantage that there are hoops to jump through. Bitcoin is trading at a discount because it is non trivial to acquire.

[Trader Steve]

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying…

My standard operating procedure:

1. Have them download a simple smart phone wallet. For iPhone I suggest BitWallet or BreadWallet. For Android it is Mycelium.
2. I send them a dollar's worth of bitcoin - now they are owners.
3. I walk them through the backup process (pretty easy)
4. At that point they can buy from me, LocalTrader or LocalBitcoins (screw buying from AML/KYC nodes)
5. I tell them to get my paper wallet product (http://CoinPro.me) to store anything larger than pocket change. It has the tutorials and a BitAddress clone on a Ubuntu Live DVD.

Or, if I don't want to spend much time with them, I direct them to http://BitcoinMerchant.com and have them click on "How to Bitcoin."

[molecular]

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying…

Urm... Just set him up with a wallet and sell him some coins?

[cypherdoc]

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying…

My standard operating procedure:

1. Have them download a simple smart phone wallet. For iPhone I suggest BitWallet or BreadWallet. For Android it is Mycelium.
2. I send them a dollar's worth of bitcoin - now they are owners.
3. I walk them through the backup process (pretty easy)
4. At that point they can buy from me, LocalTrader or LocalBitcoins (screw buying from AML/KYC nodes)
5. I tell them to get my paper wallet product (http://CoinPro.me) to store anything larger than pocket change. It has the tutorials and a BitAddress clone on a Ubuntu Live DVD.

Or, if I don't want to spend much time with them, I direct them to http://BitcoinMerchant.com and have them click on "How to Bitcoin."

Yeah, this really is the simplest way, an SPV client on a phone. With a cold storage BIP38  private /public QR code pair on a laminated card with a backup in a safe, not only is he safe, but liquid. Mycelium is now testing their HD wallets as well. All this combined with their local trading app makes them the leader for android.

[cypherdoc]

fallling, please get to work.

I'm not done yet accumulating  more bitcoin in the low 470's.

thank you.

[cypherdoc]

fallling, can you hear me?

[blaaaaacksuit]

fallling, can you hear me?

I think he's too busy accumulating.

[cypherdoc]

fallling is faiiling.

I said low 470's or even lower.

[cypherdoc]

complex series of higher lows after 9 mo bear mkt. good enough for me:

[cypherdoc]

lookin' real good:

[zeetubes]

Interesting ZH article about the permanently high plateau that is the S&P. The site is down for maintenance so I can't link it but one quote got me thinking: "one glance at a chart of the S&P 500 tells us that stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. How can we identify a permanently high plateau? One sign is price never touches the 50-week moving average (MA), much less the 200-week MA: prices just keep marching higher in a volatility-free permanently rising plateau."

The VIX, consumer confidence, unemployment, exchange rates, interest rates et al are all massaged into something their own mothers wouldn't recognize. So if you want to gauge the economy in meaningful terms, you have to look at raw numbers for power consumption, container traffic through the suez or panama canal etc. In the world of BTC, what is an equivalent? What should we be looking at to see if sentiment is positive or negative that is still relatively un-manipulated? I'm not sure if I'm asking the right question but once analytics takes over any market, it seems the stats are distorted such that getting a clear picture is very difficult.

[cypherdoc]

more evidence that the UST mkt is a black hole sucking in more and more wealth and productive capital.  we're doing a Japan:

“Bank regulators are now forcing financial institutions to hold more Treasury securities in an effort to ensure cash solvency in the event of another financial crisis

Rule after rule is increasing concentration by investors, banks and others in what are called high-quality liquid assets,” said Wayne Abernathy, vice president at the American Bankers Association."

http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/05/to-avoid-another-crash-banks-forced-to-buy-treasury-securities/#ixzz3CbQazJgW

[cypherdoc]

coiling. we're gonna get another pop off.

the Bitstamp Bears are gonna get hurt.

[STT]

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FuWiRcOR.png&t=544&c=F19hzAOM0iF-fw

BTC volume is rising or is this just showing local bitcoins is becoming a more popular site despite the decline.   I read in a newspaper, which is ironic as its national publication but anyway they said BTC is a declining medium ever seen December price peaked. 
  This would match up with the clampdown in China on business use of BTC.  Previously China private industry had tried to use tons of copper as proxy currency and were also blocked from this practise, some say leading to a serious decline in world copper prices as so much building and construction is done in China especially