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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804606 times)
Brewins
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September 03, 2014, 11:32:28 PM
 #11581



Doodling....

If you're one of those guys who subscribes to repeating patterns, it's hard NOT to imagine what happens next.

We have more people spending Bitcoins on stores, so we have a bigger sell pressure we had not before.

Sooner or later Bitcoin will rise due to acceptance, but much blood will be left behind until that happens, it seems.

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September 03, 2014, 11:43:10 PM
 #11582

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?

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September 03, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
 #11583

Now I get it -it's been staring in my face for weeks:

You use the word deflation in an unconventional third way, not the economic sense of shrinking money supply, not in the populist sense of shrinking prices, but generally as shrinkage.

Shrinking real wages, shrinking house building, shrinking GDP, shrinking dicks.

Makes sense, although it should be properly agreed upon during a discussion.
 

altho it is still probable that my definition fits the traditional definition of shrinking money supply (monetary base+credit). the problem is i can't find any reliable figures on total aggregate debt over time, including shadow banking, and whether it is shrinking or not.  that chart above of net shadow banking liabilities is a big hint as to what is going on, the question being, whether or not it is being adequately offset by increasing gvt debt and monetary base.

anyone?

Fair. Seeing the world overall, we have government debt creation in Japan and China. China is desperate to reduce debt ratios in businesses, but they can't, when they try they feel the pain with failing businesses all over the place. With money supply deflation, we should see falling prices. We have falling prices in gold and some capital commodities. Commodity prices are where we should expect it first, anyway.


gvt debt creation is a black hole of inefficiency and corruption.  in this transition from increasing private debt to public debt accumulation, productivity is being destroyed.  if the Chinese gvt is desperately trying to reduce debt ratios in private businesses, perhaps they should stop and look at themselves first; oh my, not gonna happen.  this is called the heavy hand of regulation that is even more oppressing and destructive.  think Ben Lawsky.  actually, if you look at the prices of a variety of commodities, they have been falling along with oil since the beginning of the year.  what will really be concerning would be a fall in financial speculative asset prices, like the stock mkt.

That's right, productivity is falling, the need for debt creation is rising exponentially. That is why the system will break. My guess is, something will happen in China, but it could really start anywhere. Cross dependensies are everywhere, nobody seems to know where their end of the line collateral for debt really is. Aluminium prices down in China could be the reason for a failed beer-producer in Europe. Or some butterfly. Is seems to drag out forever.
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September 04, 2014, 12:16:48 AM
 #11584

Now I get it -it's been staring in my face for weeks:

You use the word deflation in an unconventional third way, not the economic sense of shrinking money supply, not in the populist sense of shrinking prices, but generally as shrinkage.

Shrinking real wages, shrinking house building, shrinking GDP, shrinking dicks.

Makes sense, although it should be properly agreed upon during a discussion.
 

altho it is still probable that my definition fits the traditional definition of shrinking money supply (monetary base+credit). the problem is i can't find any reliable figures on total aggregate debt over time, including shadow banking, and whether it is shrinking or not.  that chart above of net shadow banking liabilities is a big hint as to what is going on, the question being, whether or not it is being adequately offset by increasing gvt debt and monetary base.

anyone?

Fair. Seeing the world overall, we have government debt creation in Japan and China. China is desperate to reduce debt ratios in businesses, but they can't, when they try they feel the pain with failing businesses all over the place. With money supply deflation, we should see falling prices. We have falling prices in gold and some capital commodities. Commodity prices are where we should expect it first, anyway.


gvt debt creation is a black hole of inefficiency and corruption.  in this transition from increasing private debt to public debt accumulation, productivity is being destroyed.  if the Chinese gvt is desperately trying to reduce debt ratios in private businesses, perhaps they should stop and look at themselves first; oh my, not gonna happen.  this is called the heavy hand of regulation that is even more oppressing and destructive.  think Ben Lawsky.  actually, if you look at the prices of a variety of commodities, they have been falling along with oil since the beginning of the year.  what will really be concerning would be a fall in financial speculative asset prices, like the stock mkt.

That's right, productivity is falling, the need for debt creation is rising exponentially. That is why the system will break. My guess is, something will happen in China, but it could really start anywhere. Cross dependensies are everywhere, nobody seems to know where their end of the line collateral for debt really is. Aluminium prices down in China could be the reason for a failed beer-producer in Europe. Or some butterfly. Is seems to drag out forever.


Or just economic sanctions. It seems like all the rage these days to teach thine enemy a lesson, just sanction some shit. Of course they are obligated to sanction something in return. Similar to military conflicts, which pit two or more economies in a war of attrition, a sanction simply reduces the value of those economies by limiting what they can do.

But like you said, dependencies are everywhere. We're all sitting in a spider web of the global economy, attempting to teach a lesson by cutting the strands between us. This results in falling productivity, as there is a smaller market and less incentive to produce, and the whole thing spirals.

The convenient thing about sanctions is that they have an excuse built in. Our economy tanks during the year that one or more "enemies" levied sanctions against us, and it's their fault, making them a bigger enemy, and justifying some more sanctions. But what do they ultimately accomplish? Are the citizens benefiting from their governments limiting who we can buy and sell to, or what kind of currency we can hold? What a silly notion.

So, while any of the economies in the world collapsing is a viable catalyst, let's not forget that they are also working diligently to make each other useless in the meantime.
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September 04, 2014, 01:00:49 AM
 #11585

"no one's dismissing it.  i've been worried about it all along.  it's just that i think manipulation can be capped b/c we're talking about an international monetary unit whose security is in the interest of all nations, not just the US.  these types of manipulations would occur at the exchanges.  the fact that the highest volume exchanges are in China today would make it hard for the US gvt to manipulate Bitcoin at this time, imo.  we need to have a large # spread out round the world, preferably in jurisdictions that vie against each other otherwise, like China, Russia, and the US."

I think that may be the key. If Satoshi had read those five criteria -- and he probably did -- then he may have surmised that the only way bitcoins could avoid being manipulated would be for it to become a universal and dominant currency.  I wonder if he anticipated so many alts being created.
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September 04, 2014, 01:09:16 AM
 #11586

"no one's dismissing it.  i've been worried about it all along.  it's just that i think manipulation can be capped b/c we're talking about an international monetary unit whose security is in the interest of all nations, not just the US.  these types of manipulations would occur at the exchanges.  the fact that the highest volume exchanges are in China today would make it hard for the US gvt to manipulate Bitcoin at this time, imo.  we need to have a large # spread out round the world, preferably in jurisdictions that vie against each other otherwise, like China, Russia, and the US."

I think that may be the key. If Satoshi had read those five criteria -- and he probably did -- then he may have surmised that the only way bitcoins could avoid being manipulated would be for it to become a universal and dominant currency.  I wonder if he anticipated so many alts being created.

yes, it's just decentralization at the exchange level. tbh, it's actually looking quite good at the moment with so many exchanges in so many different countries.  if anything, the US is behind, mainly b/c the apparatchiks are sensing USD danger from Bitcoin.  they need to wake the hell up quick as time is running out and businesses are anticipating that NYDFS won't get an epiphany.

while the alts have subtracted from Bitcoin in the short term, i think that will dissipate if not disappear entirely in the long term.
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September 04, 2014, 01:16:59 AM
 #11587

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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September 04, 2014, 01:23:38 AM
 #11588

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!



Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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September 04, 2014, 01:24:20 AM
 #11589

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

I read it start to finish. There's no plan in there at all and the idea doesn't seem realizable at all.

BTW: Who are my peers?  Wink

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September 04, 2014, 01:29:52 AM
 #11590

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!


hahaha thats brilliant..lol

@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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September 04, 2014, 01:34:39 AM
 #11591


@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

It will indeed Smiley

I read it because I wanted to know what all the fuss was about.

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September 04, 2014, 01:35:52 AM
 #11592

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!


hahaha thats brilliant..lol

@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

Well, at least you have a sense of humor.  Wink

+1
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September 04, 2014, 01:56:05 AM
 #11593

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!


hahaha thats brilliant..lol

@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

Well, at least you have a sense of humor.  Wink

+1

I'd put that as my pic thing if i was able Cheesy

The only thing that irritates me is when people dismiss things with out prior unbiased research into the subject matter.. Smiley

@watchwoord iv followed it from the start long before btcd was chosen..(got in at 50k sats). It really is going to be seriously disruptive if it can be pulled off.. And im confident that james can. He is a very skilled dev. Multigateway is arguably the one of most revolutionary features if used in a crypto. Once instantdex comes into play and these features become available in the supernet coins, its going to change the status quo of altcoin so and altcoin trading forever. If all coins were on super network.. The altcoin exchanges would cease to exist. And as much as I know many of you dont like nxt.. That is what makes all this possible.. I think most if not all supernetwork tx's will go into the nxt blockchain so if you believe metacaffs?? Law.....

You cant deny though..if it works like it is supposed to.. Things are to change around the altcoin and possibly bitcoin section.. Bitcoin could also be included in this network so that it can then also benefit from the features of the different coins added to the network. Imagine the power of bitcoin if it suddenly had that amount of power with out the risk of making changes to the core... Atleast i dont think it would require changes.. I'm not sure.. Would be cool though.

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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September 04, 2014, 02:05:06 AM
 #11594

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Haha Boolberry (what a name) rose tremendously after the announcement this. Thus far this doesn't seem interesting at all. But I see jl777 has donated 3700 BTC to this plan? Is this verifiable?
Did you actually read it or just follow/repeat what other altcoin hating skeptics have said about it so as not to be different from your "peers"?

He's back!


hahaha thats brilliant..lol

@watchwoord well time will tell i guess..

Well, at least you have a sense of humor.  Wink

+1

I'd put that as my pic thing if i was able Cheesy

The only thing that irritates me is when people dismiss things with out prior unbiased research into the subject matter.. Smiley

@watchwoord iv followed it from the start long before btcd was chosen..(got in at 50k sats). It really is going to be seriously disruptive if it can be pulled off.. And im confident that james can. He is a very skilled dev. Multigateway is arguably the one of most revolutionary features if used in a crypto. Once instantdex comes into play and these features become available in the supernet coins, its going to change the status quo of altcoin so and altcoin trading forever. If all coins were on super network.. The altcoin exchanges would cease to exist. And as much as I know many of you dont like nxt.. That is what makes all this possible.. I think most if not all supernetwork tx's will go into the nxt blockchain so if you believe metacaffs?? Law.....

You cant deny though..if it works like it is supposed to.. Things are to change around the altcoin and possibly bitcoin section.. Bitcoin could also be included in this network so that it can then also benefit from the features of the different coins added to the network. Imagine the power of bitcoin if it suddenly had that amount of power with out the risk of making changes to the core... Atleast i dont think it would require changes.. I'm not sure.. Would be cool though.

He wants different crypto currencies to use each other's features without even trying to explain how (on any abstraction level). You'd think he'd put that in the document if he had any idea what he were doing.

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September 04, 2014, 02:12:09 AM
 #11595

He didnt give any technical documentation of how multigateway works until it was very near finished i dont think.. And that turned out far far better than expected. Just because he hasn't given a technical explanation of how it will work doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing.

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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September 04, 2014, 02:28:31 AM
 #11596

...
My feeling is that the price has dropped in the last 6 months, while the value has grown. 

Agreed. Feels a lot like late-2011/early-2012 to me. Bubble blow off, recovering from a bunch of nasty stuff, yet steady ecosystem development and investment under the hood.


Yup exactly!

last time, it went from about 130 to over 1100 - almost a ten-bagger

this time, it's launching from 450

my question to you is, when are you selling?


Seems most are thinking it's bubble time? Hmmm. What was that thing people say about everyone expecting the same thing? Hehe. Wink

Yeah, IMO you aggressive bulls are jumping the gun here.  We popped a bit which caused wavering fence sitters to freak out and buy.  We'll consolidate here for a bit, and hopefully trickle up for a month... this price action will start convincing the larger players and the media that the next run is coming.  But I don't think its bubble time, instead compare it to the rebound from 2 to 4+ (in early 2012).


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September 04, 2014, 02:35:07 AM
 #11597

He didnt give any technical documentation of how multigateway works until it was very near finished i dont think.. And that turned out far far better than expected. Just because he hasn't given a technical explanation of how it will work doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing.

Smelled like a bait and switch.

Normally technical documentation have the key results and core novel concepts described in the abstract (the first paragraph on the front page.) E.g. read Nakamoto's paper.

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September 04, 2014, 02:40:59 AM
 #11598

At least give this an open minded read... I am sincerely not trying to coin pump. Something huge is actually happening here: http://209.126.70.170/SuperNET.pdf.
Teleport, InstantDEX, Multigateway, cross chain trading, Tradebots, P2p betting, SuperNET. This stuff is not coin (or nxt) specific. These features cannot be disregarded as they will boost ALL of crypto and have never been done before!

Crypto is about to change forever.

Wow, there is not a single technically described idea in that document at all.  Its like 10% trying to be cool, 30% marketing, 40% imaginary ideas that are not original and 20% garbage.  Can I charge you for my time?
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September 04, 2014, 02:42:41 AM
 #11599

He didnt give any technical documentation of how multigateway works until it was very near finished i dont think.. And that turned out far far better than expected. Just because he hasn't given a technical explanation of how it will work doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing.

Smelled like a bait and switch.

Normally technical documentation have the key results and core novel concepts described in the abstract (the first paragraph on the front page.) E.g. read Nakamoto's paper.

bait and switch?? whats that? get them to trust with the first thing then scam with the second?

and not everything is done "normally".. crypto wouldnt exist if everyone just followed what was normal.. actually nothing would ever change if everyone stuck to doing what was "normal" at the time.. progress is only ever made by people who do things or create things that are different and therefore do not fit into the present norm. so things should not be written off simply on the premise of not being the norm. that is very very short sighted imo.. actually thats practically mainstream..lol you sure your a crypto head? Cheesy

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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September 04, 2014, 03:13:51 AM
 #11600

The difference here is that James has managed to prove himself time and time again. His source code is out in the open and many of the other projects listed are either in beta or near completion. By simply reading the different posts he makes and witnessing the speed in which he can pump out innovative and original code, doing things I've dreamed of crypto doing for the past years, it will become extremely apparent that this man means business and most definitely has the skills to pull something of this caliber off. Not only does he have the skills but he appears to be doing it all for the right reasons and in the spirit of truely decentralized ideals and values.

Do you guys actually think that bitcoin is going to stay exactly as it is and that crypto 5 years from now is not going to be unimaginably different then what it is today? Why is it so hard to consider that changes in this landscape are not going to come out of left field and alter people perception of what crypto does or is? Do you really think all the exciting innovation is going to stop? This shit is going to continue moving faster and faster until we barely recognize the world from what it was. Why not embrace it?

Not to mention the whole point of this thread is about the problems with today's economy and everything that bitcoin is going to be able to do to help solve it. If we really believe in these ideals then why is the thought of using any other tools, cut from the same cloth, to help solve the same problems such an evil concept?
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