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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806435 times)
Peter R
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September 06, 2014, 12:38:11 AM
 #11701

you can trade GLD without doin KYC/AML ?

Of course not.  But many people are already setup with online or full-service brokerages. So it's just a phone call or a few clicks of the mouse to purchase an ETF.

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you could sell him some yourself, but honestly I recommend the full cavirtex experience, sure it takes a few days to get the paperwork cleared, but once you're set... its well worth the pain.

This is how I'm leaning too.  It's a bit of a process, but it's the right way to do it.  


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sidhujag
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September 06, 2014, 12:41:42 AM
 #11702

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying… Smiley

 I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.
Peter R
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September 06, 2014, 12:46:36 AM
 #11703

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too. 

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait. 

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cypherdoc
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September 06, 2014, 12:48:46 AM
 #11704

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too. 

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait. 

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about. 

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.
hdbuck
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September 06, 2014, 12:50:37 AM
 #11705

World GDP growth expectations just hit their lowest in two years... and stocks didn't:


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-05/printed-money-nothing

I still get amazed everyday by such fraud.
Peter R
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September 06, 2014, 12:56:19 AM
 #11706

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

This is what I mean when I say that questions like this from my friends and acquaintances are always difficult for me to answer.  It's a chicken and egg problem.  Once you're a bitcoin holder, you're more eager to learn about bitcoin security and blockchain technology.  But if the process is too difficult, and if you (think you) just want to speculate on price, then I can see that being bombarded with information about private keys, cold storage, 2FA, etc, etc, could seem like information overload.



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adamstgBit
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September 06, 2014, 12:58:17 AM
 #11707

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

a 2FA cavirtex account is quite safe, let him buy a few then he'll have some motivation to learn a few tricks, like generating a paper wallet, offline.

seems easy enough to us, but learning new things no matter how simple can be challenging, or at the very least SEEM challenging, at first.

majamalu
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September 06, 2014, 02:03:38 AM
 #11708

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

This is what I mean when I say that questions like this from my friends and acquaintances are always difficult for me to answer.  It's a chicken and egg problem.  Once you're a bitcoin holder, you're more eager to learn about bitcoin security and blockchain technology.  But if the process is too difficult, and if you (think you) just want to speculate on price, then I can see that being bombarded with information about private keys, cold storage, 2FA, etc, etc, could seem like information overload.


This is the trick I use with people like that: I say "If you are not ready to sit down and pay attention to me for half an hour, this is not for you at the moment." It works by activating the opposition reflex.  Smiley

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
thefunkybits
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September 06, 2014, 02:06:23 AM
 #11709

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.




What about Vault of Satoshi?

I got verified by them in a day or two and their level of security is top notch

CAVIRTEX has a silly waiting list

adamstgBit
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September 06, 2014, 02:07:36 AM
 #11710

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.




What about Vault of Satoshi?

I got verified by them in a day or two and their level of security is top notch

CAVIRTEX has a silly waiting list

ya but cavirtex has better price generally and more volume

cypherdoc
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September 06, 2014, 02:52:28 AM
 #11711

yeah, it looks to me that despite yesterdays immediate smack down, ppl are already buying any dip into the low 470's looking to establish yet another higher low.  selling pressure is weakening.
tvbcof
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September 06, 2014, 03:42:51 AM
 #11712

Gold up, Cypherdoc collapsing.

lol.  tv, you're like a little dog, constantly nipping at my heels.

More like a sleek feline waiting to execute a ninja pounce when the timing is right.  (I watched my years worth of cat vids last night Smiley )


cypherdoc
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September 06, 2014, 03:46:55 AM
 #11713

Gold up, Cypherdoc collapsing.

lol.  tv, you're like a little dog, constantly nipping at my heels.

More like a sleek feline waiting to execute a ninja pounce when the timing is right.  (I watched my years worth of cat vids last night Smiley )



lol, fair enough  Wink
thoughtfan
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September 06, 2014, 04:12:27 AM
 #11714

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

Get him to buy a Trezor*.  If it's more than play money he's talking about it's not a high price to pay for peace of mind without needing to delve into the depths of the pros and cons, complex processes and precautions involved with the mass of on/off line options there are out there.

I'm definitely with cypherdoc on this one.   The idea that it may 'not [be] important for [a newbie] to learn about bitcoin wallet security' from the very get go is surely asking for tears further down the line.  One of the main points I talk about in any introduction to Bitcoin (usually whilst waiting for a Piper paper wallet to print off that they pressed the button on that I'm going to send 25 mBTC to) is the importance of understanding the challenge of both keeping a private key from hackers and of keeping it such as we don't lose it (forget passwords etc) ourselves.  I usually also use Andreas Antonopolus's story about humans from when someone first wanted to keep a squirrel he'd killed till the following day learned to keep physical stuff safe (hiding stuff is even in the squirrel's DNA) whereas we're useless at backups and security on the whole even though we know we should be more diligent because it's just so new to us.

I don't think owning small amounts of bitcoin on unsecure or make-do wallet solutions encourages someone to learn about security.  There are too many other exciting things about bitcoin to be reading up on.  I believe losing bitcoins is what prompts us to learn more and do better.  If it's just token amounts that's brilliant but more often people don't step up the security as more value is put on a wallet (or the holding increases in value) and that's a precarious position to be in.

This is the trick I use with people like that: I say "If you are not ready to sit down and pay attention to me for half an hour, this is not for you at the moment." It works by activating the opposition reflex.  Smiley

Emphatic yes from me!  Even with my careful explanations people sometimes ask as they leave: 'So if I don't spend this for some time or if I lose it you get the bitcoins back do you?'  Those of us familiar with the Bitcoin paradigm and the uncrackability of strong cryptography in general are so used to it it is easy to forget how alien a concept it is to most that a lost or stolen passphrase/private key is the end of their bitcoins.

* or a Piper Wallet printer

If you have a machine on 24/7 why not have a full Bitcoin client running on it to support the network?
cypherdoc
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September 06, 2014, 04:52:02 AM
 #11715

yeah, it looks to me that despite yesterdays immediate smack down, ppl are already buying any dip into the low 470's looking to establish yet another higher low.  selling pressure is weakening.

yeah, they can't keep it down
zeetubes
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September 06, 2014, 05:00:20 AM
 #11716

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying… Smiley

I sent this link to a friend in Canada before, which requires the person to have an RBC account. I'm not sure if he followed these instructions but he did end up with a coinbase account.

https://coinforum.ca/discussion/678/buy-and-sell-bitcoin-with-your-rbc-bank-account
Adrian-x
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September 06, 2014, 07:22:18 AM
 #11717

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.




My first reply would be: "why what's up, there are a few option depending on your needs" and take it from there.

I've encouraged those with no technical background to make a blockchain.info wallet and a secure backup. I make a point of telling them of the history of thefts and the safest way to secure Bitcoin, the higher the value the more interest in security.

I use both VoS and CaVirtex, VoS is way more smooth, and as of late they track pretty close. Still I would advise against leaving coins on an exchange - emtygox is a great eg. 

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
Grafzep
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September 06, 2014, 10:09:56 AM
 #11718

I thought the exchange downtown had some reps there to help you with the wallets etc? Kind of like bank clerks.

There's Bitcoiniacs at Waves, and the Bitcoin Co-op guys in Gastown.  I suppose those are options too.  

But this individual is mostly interested in price speculation as part of a diversified investment portfolio.  I'm not sure it's important for him to learn about bitcoin wallet security at this point in time.  Perhaps that can wait.  

that doesn't sound too wise.  Bitcoin is meant to encourage personal responsibility. plus it will make him learn and appreciate what Bitcoin is all about.  

speculation on the price is somewhat dependent on one being able to hold onto one's coins w/o getting scammed.

This is what I mean when I say that questions like this from my friends and acquaintances are always difficult for me to answer.  It's a chicken and egg problem.  Once you're a bitcoin holder, you're more eager to learn about bitcoin security and blockchain technology.  But if the process is too difficult, and if you (think you) just want to speculate on price, then I can see that being bombarded with information about private keys, cold storage, 2FA, etc, etc, could seem like information overload.





Let him set up a proper exchange account (esp if he wants best prices w trading in mind) and point out, as I've done to interested newbs, that all the pia KYC is helping to keep the price down by discouraging casual and impulse buys. It is his price advantage that there are hoops to jump through. Bitcoin is trading at a discount because it is non trivial to acquire.
Trader Steve
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September 06, 2014, 01:59:29 PM
 #11719

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying… Smiley

My standard operating procedure:

1. Have them download a simple smart phone wallet. For iPhone I suggest BitWallet or BreadWallet. For Android it is Mycelium.
2. I send them a dollar's worth of bitcoin - now they are owners.
3. I walk them through the backup process (pretty easy)
4. At that point they can buy from me, LocalTrader or LocalBitcoins (screw buying from AML/KYC nodes)
5. I tell them to get my paper wallet product (http://CoinPro.me) to store anything larger than pocket change. It has the tutorials and a BitAddress clone on a Ubuntu Live DVD.

Or, if I don't want to spend much time with them, I direct them to http://BitcoinMerchant.com and have them click on "How to Bitcoin."

molecular
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September 06, 2014, 03:00:29 PM
 #11720

Look at the text I just received from a good friend.  He's a young dentist in Vancouver.



Now the question is "how do I answer him?"  [This is always a problem for me].  If I recommend cavirtex, then he must persevere through the time-consuming KYC/AML procedure, link his bank account, and then still wait a week for the first transfer to clear  ....  Telling him about 2FA on top of this will be too much [I wish cavirtex disabled bitcoin withdrawals by default unless 2FA was enabled and verified].  

I could send him over to the bitcoin ATM which is fast and easy [although unsuitable for large purchases], but then I would feel personally responsible to set him up properly with a wallet on his phone, a back-up of the seed, and a cold-storage system.  

I wish we had an exchange-tradeable product like GLD but with bitcoin as the underlying… Smiley

Urm... Just set him up with a wallet and sell him some coins?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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