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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807852 times)
cypherdoc
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September 23, 2014, 03:09:58 PM
 #12581

https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/514422905808359424
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cypherdoc
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September 23, 2014, 03:11:21 PM
 #12582

Peter Schiff still coming out very strongly against Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMfoFlJhcck&list=UUIjuLiLHdFxYtFmWlbTGQRQ

No valid arguments in the whole thing, but it does show his mindset pretty clearly.

Quote from: Peter Schiff
If you're still holding these bitcoins, DO NOT GO DOWN WITH THE SHIP. Go to my gold company, Schiff Gold... if you've got 30 or 40 bitcoins you can buy a few ounces of gold. At some point you may not be able to buy a pack of chewing gum with those bitcoins.

LOL,

Keep in mind who is on the other side of that trade for our "chewing gum money".
(He is)

Doesn't he use Bitpay to convert bitcoins to fiat?

that's what he says.

the real question is whether you think he's as stupid as he sounds.
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September 23, 2014, 03:13:55 PM
 #12583


Not sure why Jeff is so concerned about NXT if it's just a scamcoin, one of many others Smiley
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September 23, 2014, 03:14:46 PM
 #12584

so yes, the question remains, will BABA top tick the stock mkt?



sell it off baby, sell it off:



and yes, i do think we have an excellent chance at bottom ticking Bitcoin:

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September 23, 2014, 03:16:12 PM
 #12585

cypherdoc I think you're maybe even over-analyzing why dollars beat gold as money. I suspect all it took was a new generation born into dollars not backed by anything. I'm middle aged and never was under any illusion fiat was backed by anything as I grew up, I never even saw gold in coin or bullion form in person until I bought a couple coins last year. For me growing up gold as money was something only in history books. Fiat was what I saw, you earned it and you spent it. Since inflation is generally so gradual in 1st world countries you don't notice it, and take it for granted.

In summary, all it takes is for people that used gold as money to die off, and for dollars to be 'good enough' as money for the average person.

If you liked this post -> 1KRYhandiYsjecZw7mtdLnoeuKUYoGRkH4
cypherdoc
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September 23, 2014, 03:31:06 PM
 #12586

cypherdoc I think you're maybe even over-analyzing why dollars beat gold as money. I suspect all it took was a new generation born into dollars not backed by anything. I'm middle aged and never was under any illusion fiat was backed by anything as I grew up, I never even saw gold in coin or bullion form in person until I bought a couple coins last year. For me growing up gold as money was something only in history books. Fiat was what I saw, you earned it and you spent it. Since inflation is generally so gradual in 1st world countries you don't notice it, and take it for granted.

In summary, all it takes is for people that used gold as money to die off, and for dollars to be 'good enough' as money for the average person.

that's clearly a factor as well as even i stated in this thread before.  the reasons are multifactorial no doubt.  this thread is long b/c there are lots of different ideas as to why it is happening and we are just trying to flush them all out in different ways and with different nuance.

i still think digital dollars and the speed with which they can be teleported to a crisis region to prevent massive dollar debt defaults is clearly a reason that enhances stability and recovery.  gold can really only go up when there is instability and fear.  whether you call it foul play, manipulation, or moral hazard doesn't matter.  the main point being that it has defeated any significant advancement in the gold price by stopping any normal gold flows b/c gold is just too slow.

furthermore, i still think this dollar digitalization, or dollar hegemony if you prefer, is causing deflation on a broader scale.  commodities continue to fall in price reflecting declining demand.  the lack of wage increases for the broader population makes things too expensive for most.  

how can Bitcoin help in deflation?  by bringing fairness and mathematics to the table and by removing corruption and a small, elitist group of counterfeiters.
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September 23, 2014, 03:40:08 PM
 #12587

lots of squeeze potential:

shields
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September 23, 2014, 04:08:14 PM
 #12588

cypherdoc I think you're maybe even over-analyzing why dollars beat gold as money. I suspect all it took was a new generation born into dollars not backed by anything. I'm middle aged and never was under any illusion fiat was backed by anything as I grew up, I never even saw gold in coin or bullion form in person until I bought a couple coins last year. For me growing up gold as money was something only in history books. Fiat was what I saw, you earned it and you spent it. Since inflation is generally so gradual in 1st world countries you don't notice it, and take it for granted.

In summary, all it takes is for people that used gold as money to die off, and for dollars to be 'good enough' as money for the average person.

that's clearly a factor as well as even i stated in this thread before.  the reasons are multifactorial no doubt.  this thread is long b/c there are lots of different ideas as to why it is happening and we are just trying to flush them all out in different ways and with different nuance.

i still think digital dollars and the speed with which they can be teleported to a crisis region to prevent massive dollar debt defaults is clearly a reason that enhances stability and recovery.  gold can really only go up when there is instability and fear.  whether you call it foul play, manipulation, or moral hazard doesn't matter.  the main point being that it has defeated any significant advancement in the gold price by stopping any normal gold flows b/c gold is just too slow.

furthermore, i still think this dollar digitalization, or dollar hegemony if you prefer, is causing deflation on a broader scale.  commodities continue to fall in price reflecting declining demand.  the lack of wage increases for the broader population makes things too expensive for most.  

how can Bitcoin help in deflation?  by bringing fairness and mathematics to the table and by removing corruption and a small, elitist group of counterfeiters.

Yeah the digital dollar was a significant improvement to 'dollar' technology. Fiat in general tended to gradually improve in other ways too over time  - smaller notes and coins, better counterfeit prevention etc, but the jump to digital - ATM machines, credit cards etc all helped push it further ahead of gold in practicality terms.

An interesting thought about the digital dollar though is that it helps the transition to crytpo. Kids growing up today will be used to digital money, they won't look on digital as a replacement for phsyical just as I didn't look at fiat as a replacement for gold - they'll grow up with the normality that digital balances on a screen are their money. The mental jump from digital fiat to digital cryptos is a small one from there.

If you liked this post -> 1KRYhandiYsjecZw7mtdLnoeuKUYoGRkH4
cypherdoc
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September 23, 2014, 04:17:31 PM
 #12589

cypherdoc I think you're maybe even over-analyzing why dollars beat gold as money. I suspect all it took was a new generation born into dollars not backed by anything. I'm middle aged and never was under any illusion fiat was backed by anything as I grew up, I never even saw gold in coin or bullion form in person until I bought a couple coins last year. For me growing up gold as money was something only in history books. Fiat was what I saw, you earned it and you spent it. Since inflation is generally so gradual in 1st world countries you don't notice it, and take it for granted.

In summary, all it takes is for people that used gold as money to die off, and for dollars to be 'good enough' as money for the average person.

that's clearly a factor as well as even i stated in this thread before.  the reasons are multifactorial no doubt.  this thread is long b/c there are lots of different ideas as to why it is happening and we are just trying to flush them all out in different ways and with different nuance.

i still think digital dollars and the speed with which they can be teleported to a crisis region to prevent massive dollar debt defaults is clearly a reason that enhances stability and recovery.  gold can really only go up when there is instability and fear.  whether you call it foul play, manipulation, or moral hazard doesn't matter.  the main point being that it has defeated any significant advancement in the gold price by stopping any normal gold flows b/c gold is just too slow.

furthermore, i still think this dollar digitalization, or dollar hegemony if you prefer, is causing deflation on a broader scale.  commodities continue to fall in price reflecting declining demand.  the lack of wage increases for the broader population makes things too expensive for most.  

how can Bitcoin help in deflation?  by bringing fairness and mathematics to the table and by removing corruption and a small, elitist group of counterfeiters.

Yeah the digital dollar was a significant improvement to 'dollar' technology. Fiat in general tended to gradually improve in other ways too over time  - smaller notes and coins, better counterfeit prevention etc, but the jump to digital - ATM machines, credit cards etc all helped push it further ahead of gold in practicality terms.

An interesting thought about the digital dollar though is that it helps the transition to crytpo. Kids growing up today will be used to digital money, they won't look on digital as a replacement for phsyical just as I didn't look at fiat as a replacement for gold - they'll grow up with the normality that digital balances on a screen are their money. The mental jump from digital fiat to digital cryptos is a small one from there.

yes, and ApplePay just served to further legitimize that trend.  i find it interesting that they reopened their app store to Bitcoin wallets only 1-2 mo before their announcement.
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September 23, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
 #12590

yay to the US of A!

Adrian-x
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September 23, 2014, 04:21:13 PM
 #12591

LOL,

Keep in mind who is on the other side of that trade for our "chewing gum money".
(He is)

Doesn't he use Bitpay to convert bitcoins to fiat?

that's what he says.

the real question is whether you think he's as stupid as he sounds.

It sounds to me like he is desperate to short gold. Not yet bull on Bitcoin.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
shields
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September 23, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
 #12592

cypherdoc I think you're maybe even over-analyzing why dollars beat gold as money. I suspect all it took was a new generation born into dollars not backed by anything. I'm middle aged and never was under any illusion fiat was backed by anything as I grew up, I never even saw gold in coin or bullion form in person until I bought a couple coins last year. For me growing up gold as money was something only in history books. Fiat was what I saw, you earned it and you spent it. Since inflation is generally so gradual in 1st world countries you don't notice it, and take it for granted.

In summary, all it takes is for people that used gold as money to die off, and for dollars to be 'good enough' as money for the average person.

that's clearly a factor as well as even i stated in this thread before.  the reasons are multifactorial no doubt.  this thread is long b/c there are lots of different ideas as to why it is happening and we are just trying to flush them all out in different ways and with different nuance.

i still think digital dollars and the speed with which they can be teleported to a crisis region to prevent massive dollar debt defaults is clearly a reason that enhances stability and recovery.  gold can really only go up when there is instability and fear.  whether you call it foul play, manipulation, or moral hazard doesn't matter.  the main point being that it has defeated any significant advancement in the gold price by stopping any normal gold flows b/c gold is just too slow.

furthermore, i still think this dollar digitalization, or dollar hegemony if you prefer, is causing deflation on a broader scale.  commodities continue to fall in price reflecting declining demand.  the lack of wage increases for the broader population makes things too expensive for most.  

how can Bitcoin help in deflation?  by bringing fairness and mathematics to the table and by removing corruption and a small, elitist group of counterfeiters.

Yeah the digital dollar was a significant improvement to 'dollar' technology. Fiat in general tended to gradually improve in other ways too over time  - smaller notes and coins, better counterfeit prevention etc, but the jump to digital - ATM machines, credit cards etc all helped push it further ahead of gold in practicality terms.

An interesting thought about the digital dollar though is that it helps the transition to crytpo. Kids growing up today will be used to digital money, they won't look on digital as a replacement for phsyical just as I didn't look at fiat as a replacement for gold - they'll grow up with the normality that digital balances on a screen are their money. The mental jump from digital fiat to digital cryptos is a small one from there.

yes, and ApplePay just served to further legitimize that trend.  i find it interesting that they reopened their app store to Bitcoin wallets only 1-2 mo before their announcement.

They would not have released ApplePay if they did not think it could compete with and beat Bitcoin. And if they think that, then they feel that the wallet apps on the phone are not a threat to their ApplePay - it was bad PR and it was turning some of their users away, I guess they feel the trade off of allowing them is worth it.

If you liked this post -> 1KRYhandiYsjecZw7mtdLnoeuKUYoGRkH4
Adrian-x
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September 23, 2014, 04:34:01 PM
 #12593


yes, and ApplePay just served to further legitimize that trend.  i find it interesting that they reopened their app store to Bitcoin wallets only 1-2 mo before their announcement.

They would not have released ApplePay if they did not think it could compete with and beat Bitcoin. And if they think that, then they feel that the wallet apps on the phone are not a threat to their ApplePay - it was bad PR and it was turning some of their users away, I guess they feel the trade off of allowing them is worth it.

I don't use an I phone but was informed that the send payment function had to be disabled to qualify under the ToS, if that is still the case Apple obviously feel they can't compete on functionality.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
shields
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September 23, 2014, 04:37:49 PM
 #12594


yes, and ApplePay just served to further legitimize that trend.  i find it interesting that they reopened their app store to Bitcoin wallets only 1-2 mo before their announcement.

They would not have released ApplePay if they did not think it could compete with and beat Bitcoin. And if they think that, then they feel that the wallet apps on the phone are not a threat to their ApplePay - it was bad PR and it was turning some of their users away, I guess they feel the trade off of allowing them is worth it.

I don't use an I phone but was informed that the send payment function had to be disabled to qualify under the ToS, if that is still the case Apple obviously feel they can't compete on functionality.

I suspect that's more related to Apple wanting a cut of payments made within apps, they must make a fortune from that with the amount of in-game purchasing going on in games these days.

If you liked this post -> 1KRYhandiYsjecZw7mtdLnoeuKUYoGRkH4
Adrian-x
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September 23, 2014, 04:48:08 PM
 #12595


yes, and ApplePay just served to further legitimize that trend.  i find it interesting that they reopened their app store to Bitcoin wallets only 1-2 mo before their announcement.

They would not have released ApplePay if they did not think it could compete with and beat Bitcoin. And if they think that, then they feel that the wallet apps on the phone are not a threat to their ApplePay - it was bad PR and it was turning some of their users away, I guess they feel the trade off of allowing them is worth it.

I don't use an I phone but was informed that the send payment function had to be disabled to qualify under the ToS, if that is still the case Apple obviously feel they can't compete on functionality.

I suspect that's more related to Apple wanting a cut of payments made within apps, they must make a fortune from that with the amount of in-game purchasing going on in games these days.

Sure they can sell Bitcoin too. I see a big difference when using an app to purchasing a real world product, IMO it is hardly comparable with an in app purchase, moreover it is in direct competition with applepay.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
_mr_e
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September 23, 2014, 05:00:38 PM
 #12596

Wow, Just wow... Obvious hit piece is obvious: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29283124.

There used to be a video, not sure where it went.
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September 23, 2014, 05:17:39 PM
 #12597

it's really sad to listen to the die hard gold bugs frustration.  i can hear the heaviness and fatigue in Eric King's voice in all his interviews nowadays.  they are truly confused.

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/9/21_Bill_Fleckenstein_files/Bill%20Fleckenstein%209%3A21%3A2014.mp3

I noticed the despair in poor Eric's voice months ago.  Sprott should give him a raise; he sounds like a broken man.   Sad

When Turd and Silver Doctor capitulate, it's time to buy while their blood flows down the street.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
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It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

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cypherdoc
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September 23, 2014, 05:29:31 PM
 #12598

the black hole continues to suck anything and everything into it:

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September 23, 2014, 05:46:34 PM
 #12599

here comes Paypal:

http://www.coindesk.com/paypal-announces-first-partnerships-bitcoin-space/
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September 23, 2014, 05:51:58 PM
 #12600


this could easily spark a bottom for the almost 10 mo bear mkt.  the market can only be so stupid for so long in the face of all this good news.
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