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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803333 times)
NewLiberty
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September 04, 2014, 03:28:09 AM
 #11601

He didnt give any technical documentation of how multigateway works until it was very near finished i dont think.. And that turned out far far better than expected. Just because he hasn't given a technical explanation of how it will work doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing.

True, it merely means that no one else knows what he is doing.
We'll have to wait for the code before we will know.
Satoshi did it similarly, except he didn't talk about it much before the code was done.
In the mean time, as usual folks will buy the rumor and sell the news.

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vuduchyld
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September 04, 2014, 04:02:19 AM
 #11602

"Cryptoland"?

So one becomes a "volunteer" by purchasing assets?  Pass.
Peter R
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September 04, 2014, 04:21:55 AM
 #11603

Kodtycoon and Mr. E: That paper is completely fluff.  It reminds me of Nxt's "transparent forging" claim that is supposed to make Nxt robust to "91% attacks" (a statement I think is most likely nonsensical).  Don't you find it strange that the real innovations and technical details in bitcoin can be explained at any level of depth that you're interested in, yet many of these "alt-coin innovations" remain hidden and vague in perpetuity?   Don't you find it odd that very few of the many bright people here are even interested?  

For example, how is James going to implement cross-chain trading (what he calls InstantDEX)?  I've heard Nxt advocates talk about trustless cross-chain trading, yet it's generally accepted that it's impossible to transact with external systems/blockchains in a trustless manner.  If it's not trustless, but rather "low trust," then a solution using m-of-n oracles is already known.  There's never a need for things to be "powered by Nxt."  It seems like a ridiculous statement to me.  
  
The alt-coiners don't appreciate the importance of Satoshi's contribution.  If bitcoin adoption continues, it will be written about in textbooks for centuries to come.  Some of the developers here such as Greg and Gavin will likely be famous historical figures too.  The alt-coin sideshow is largely a distraction.  I don't want to say that all the alt-coin work is crap, because I think there's a small amount of genuine innovation [for example, I think Cryptonote's ring-signature approach made a contribution, and I think the concept of sophisticated contracts popularized by Ethereum made a contribution too (although I think it's much better executed using m-of-n Oracles as per Gavin's suggestion)].  If the alt-coin community does make a real innovation, we are going to take notice.  But to date, the vast majority is either a folly or a scam.    

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
sickpig
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September 04, 2014, 06:18:46 AM
 #11604

"Peter Warburton: The debasement of world currency: It is inflation, but not as we know it.

Being a young man, I was heavily into econometrics -- or economic tricks, as some would have it."

http://gata.org/node/8303/print

--
One of the best essays around. Written in 2001 and even though it's linked from Gata it doesn't focus on gold. Interestingly at the end he lists possible investments to look at but of course bitcoin wasn't around at the time. His criteria seem like a perfect match, for now at least. Gold doesn't make the cut, I assume because of the fifth criterion.




Thanks for this piece of very valuable information.

This part for me is enlightening:

What we see at present is a battle between the central banks and the collapse of the financial system fought on two fronts. On one front, the central banks preside over the creation of additional liquidity for the financial system in order to hold back the tide of debt defaults that would otherwise occur. On the other, they incite investment banks and other willing parties to bet against a rise in the prices of gold, oil, base metals, soft commodities or anything else that might be deemed an indicator of inherent value. Their objective is to deprive the independent observer of any reliable benchmark against which to measure the eroding value, not only of the US dollar, but of all fiat currencies. Equally, they seek to deny the investor the opportunity to hedge against the fragility of the financial system by switching into a freely traded market for non-financial assets.

It is important to recognize that the central banks have found the battle on the second front much easier to fight than the first. Last November, I estimated the size of the gross stock of global debt instruments at $90 trillion for mid-2000. How much capital would it take to control the combined gold, oil and commodity markets? Probably, no more than $200 billion, using derivatives. Moreover, it is not necessary for the central banks to fight the battle themselves, although central bank gold sales and gold leasing have certainly contributed to the cause. Most of the world's large investment banks have over-traded their capital so flagrantly that if the central banks were to lose the fight on the first front, then their stock would be worthless. Because their fate is intertwined with that of the central banks, investment banks are willing participants in the battle against rising gold, oil, and commodity prices.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
cbeast
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September 04, 2014, 09:14:09 AM
 #11605

Kodtycoon and Mr. E: That paper is completely fluff.  It reminds me of Nxt's "transparent forging" claim that is supposed to make Nxt robust to "91% attacks" (a statement I think is most likely nonsensical).  Don't you find it strange that the real innovations and technical details in bitcoin can be explained at any level of depth that you're interested in, yet many of these "alt-coin innovations" remain hidden and vague in perpetuity?   Don't you find it odd that very few of the many bright people here are even interested?  

For example, how is James going to implement cross-chain trading (what he calls InstantDEX)?  I've heard Nxt advocates talk about trustless cross-chain trading, yet it's generally accepted that it's impossible to transact with external systems/blockchains in a trustless manner.  If it's not trustless, but rather "low trust," then a solution using m-of-n oracles is already known.  There's never a need for things to be "powered by Nxt."  It seems like a ridiculous statement to me.  
  
The alt-coiners don't appreciate the importance of Satoshi's contribution.  If bitcoin adoption continues, it will be written about in textbooks for centuries to come.  Some of the developers here such as Greg and Gavin will likely be famous historical figures too.  The alt-coin sideshow is largely a distraction.  I don't want to say that all the alt-coin work is crap, because I think there's a small amount of genuine innovation [for example, I think Cryptonote's ring-signature approach made a contribution, and I think the concept of sophisticated contracts popularized by Ethereum made a contribution too (although I think it's much better executed using m-of-n Oracles as per Gavin's suggestion)].  If the alt-coin community does make a real innovation, we are going to take notice.  But to date, the vast majority is either a folly or a scam.    

Well said.

tl;dr  If you can't dazzle them with your intellect, baffle them with bullshit. NXT is a smoke and ponies show. Satoshi et. al. spent many years developing a working system and so many people are just stealing their thunder rather than standing on their shoulders.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
sickpig
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September 04, 2014, 09:36:22 AM
 #11606

Kodtycoon and Mr. E: That paper is completely fluff.  It reminds me of Nxt's "transparent forging" claim that is supposed to make Nxt robust to "91% attacks" (a statement I think is most likely nonsensical).  Don't you find it strange that the real innovations and technical details in bitcoin can be explained at any level of depth that you're interested in, yet many of these "alt-coin innovations" remain hidden and vague in perpetuity?   Don't you find it odd that very few of the many bright people here are even interested?  

For example, how is James going to implement cross-chain trading (what he calls InstantDEX)?  I've heard Nxt advocates talk about trustless cross-chain trading, yet it's generally accepted that it's impossible to transact with external systems/blockchains in a trustless manner.  If it's not trustless, but rather "low trust," then a solution using m-of-n oracles is already known.  There's never a need for things to be "powered by Nxt."  It seems like a ridiculous statement to me.  
  
The alt-coiners don't appreciate the importance of Satoshi's contribution.  If bitcoin adoption continues, it will be written about in textbooks for centuries to come.  Some of the developers here such as Greg and Gavin will likely be famous historical figures too.  The alt-coin sideshow is largely a distraction.  I don't want to say that all the alt-coin work is crap, because I think there's a small amount of genuine innovation [for example, I think Cryptonote's ring-signature approach made a contribution, and I think the concept of sophisticated contracts popularized by Ethereum made a contribution too (although I think it's much better executed using m-of-n Oracles as per Gavin's suggestion)].  If the alt-coin community does make a real innovation, we are going to take notice.  But to date, the vast majority is either a folly or a scam.    


posts like this are one of the reasons I think that very good form of reasoning could be found, even in the "Speculation" sub forum Smiley In fact I've to say that this thread is a real treasure.

Peter I really do appreciate your work here, and more broadly on all other btctalk sections. 

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
FNG
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September 04, 2014, 12:14:57 PM
 #11607

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-04/shocking-move-ecb-cuts-10-bps-sends-deposit-rate-further-negative-territory


At today’s meeting the Governing Council of the ECB took the following monetary policy decisions:
*The interest rate on the main refinancing operations of the Eurosystem will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.05%, starting from the operation to be settled on 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the marginal lending facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.30%, with effect from 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the deposit facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to -0.20%, with effect from 10 September 2014.
NewLiberty
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September 04, 2014, 12:16:27 PM
 #11608

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-04/shocking-move-ecb-cuts-10-bps-sends-deposit-rate-further-negative-territory


At today’s meeting the Governing Council of the ECB took the following monetary policy decisions:
*The interest rate on the main refinancing operations of the Eurosystem will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.05%, starting from the operation to be settled on 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the marginal lending facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.30%, with effect from 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the deposit facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to -0.20%, with effect from 10 September 2014.

Looks like QE is coming, not much room left.

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wachtwoord
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September 04, 2014, 12:28:16 PM
 #11609

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-04/shocking-move-ecb-cuts-10-bps-sends-deposit-rate-further-negative-territory


At today’s meeting the Governing Council of the ECB took the following monetary policy decisions:
*The interest rate on the main refinancing operations of the Eurosystem will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.05%, starting from the operation to be settled on 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the marginal lending facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.30%, with effect from 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the deposit facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to -0.20%, with effect from 10 September 2014.

Looks like QE is coming, not much room left.

Yeah the ECB and the fed are equally retarded. And the Japanese think: didn't we do that over 20 years ago?

devphp
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September 04, 2014, 01:31:38 PM
 #11610

Kodtycoon and Mr. E: That paper is completely fluff.  It reminds me of Nxt's "transparent forging" claim that is supposed to make Nxt robust to "91% attacks" (a statement I think is most likely nonsensical).  Don't you find it strange that the real innovations and technical details in bitcoin can be explained at any level of depth that you're interested in, yet many of these "alt-coin innovations" remain hidden and vague in perpetuity?   Don't you find it odd that very few of the many bright people here are even interested? 

For example, how is James going to implement cross-chain trading (what he calls InstantDEX)?  I've heard Nxt advocates talk about trustless cross-chain trading, yet it's generally accepted that it's impossible to transact with external systems/blockchains in a trustless manner.  If it's not trustless, but rather "low trust," then a solution using m-of-n oracles is already known.  There's never a need for things to be "powered by Nxt."  It seems like a ridiculous statement to me.   
   
The alt-coiners don't appreciate the importance of Satoshi's contribution.  If bitcoin adoption continues, it will be written about in textbooks for centuries to come.  Some of the developers here such as Greg and Gavin will likely be famous historical figures too.  The alt-coin sideshow is largely a distraction.  I don't want to say that all the alt-coin work is crap, because I think there's a small amount of genuine innovation [for example, I think Cryptonote's ring-signature approach made a contribution, and I think the concept of sophisticated contracts popularized by Ethereum made a contribution too (although I think it's much better executed using m-of-n Oracles as per Gavin's suggestion)].  If the alt-coin community does make a real innovation, we are going to take notice.  But to date, the vast majority is either a folly or a scam.     


This post is full of butthurt that someone else makes innovations and takes value from Bitcoin and puts it into something else. Well, get used to it, it's gonna happen more and more. Bitcoins act as seed capital, Bitcoins fuel and propel all the other crypto 2.0 technologies, decentralized companies, etc. It makes no sense sitting on Bitcoins. Bitcoins can potentially give you 1-10x returns over the next 5 years, keeping with inflation or not. But crypto 2.0 technologies and decentralized companies stock can potentially give you 10-1000x returns over the same period. There you go, deal with it. Your and Bitcoin's status quo will change whether you want it or not. With or without your participation.
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September 04, 2014, 01:53:12 PM
 #11611

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-04/shocking-move-ecb-cuts-10-bps-sends-deposit-rate-further-negative-territory


At today’s meeting the Governing Council of the ECB took the following monetary policy decisions:
*The interest rate on the main refinancing operations of the Eurosystem will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.05%, starting from the operation to be settled on 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the marginal lending facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to 0.30%, with effect from 10 September 2014.
*The interest rate on the deposit facility will be decreased by 10 basis points to -0.20%, with effect from 10 September 2014.

Moar black hole bullshit
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September 04, 2014, 01:54:39 PM
 #11612

...

Moar plain bullshit
devphp
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September 04, 2014, 02:02:09 PM
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Oh, did I just say a blasphemy? I am sorry, didn't mean to hurt your religious feelings Cheesy
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September 04, 2014, 02:18:10 PM
 #11614


Oh, did I just say a blasphemy? I am sorry, didn't mean to hurt your religious feelings Cheesy

It's really striking how all we ever get from you pos guys are ad hominem attacks instead of real technical responses to a post like Peter's.
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September 04, 2014, 02:26:54 PM
 #11615

It's really striking how all we ever get from you pos guys are ad hominem attacks instead of real technical responses to a post like Peter's.

Why do you expect technical responses to the post that implies NXT is crap. If you call something that other people value crap, you don't deserve any meaningful response. NXT people don't call Bitcoin crap by the way, they just call it the first stage crypto that bootstraps other crypto technologies. This will be obvious further down the road. Bitcoin is just software, well, there is other software it is in competition with. It's innovate or die.
cypherdoc
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September 04, 2014, 02:47:10 PM
 #11616

Boom
cypherdoc
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September 04, 2014, 02:57:28 PM
 #11617

@this point in the cycle, anything sub 500 is cheap.

it' been my position all along that those walls have in fact been blocking walls, not selling walls.
hd060053
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September 04, 2014, 02:57:44 PM
 #11618

EUR will be equals to dollar soon.

BTC and Gold UP.
cypherdoc
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September 04, 2014, 03:08:12 PM
 #11619

...Gold UP.

i don't think so
cypherdoc
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September 04, 2014, 03:10:32 PM
 #11620

It's really striking how all we ever get from you pos guys are ad hominem attacks instead of real technical responses to a post like Peter's.

Why do you expect technical responses to the post that implies NXT is crap. If you call something that other people value crap, you don't deserve any meaningful response. NXT people don't call Bitcoin crap by the way, they just call it the first stage crypto that bootstraps other crypto technologies. This will be obvious further down the road. Bitcoin is just software, well, there is other software it is in competition with. It's innovate or die.

don't tell me you weren't reading that debate i had with Coinhoarder, et al.  he and everyone else was criticizing Bitcoin.  he said he could do a 51% attack in a minute if he had enuf money.  what a load of BS.
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