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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013889 times)
valarmg
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September 16, 2014, 09:03:53 AM
 #12121

Well, both PoW and PoS models have that under control.
PoS is in no way comparable to PoW and it's misleading and deceptive to market as such.

https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf


The problems he mentions are being solved:
http://www.nxtcommunity.org/nxt-whitepaper

PoW has its own problems, like mining centralization. Both PoW and PoS have their advantages and disadvantages.
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September 16, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
 #12122

Bitcoin is going down.

Gold is not fallling.

Upside down world.

manfred
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September 16, 2014, 09:48:12 AM
 #12123

Pile of Shit coins can not go anywhere because you can not stop progress. Daily superior technology hits the market endlessly diluting the market. Software is cheap and easy to replace starting a new chain is no effort. It is akin to a parallel system, start again and again.
With Bitcoin progress is made too with new better miners hitting the market the technology is hardware based the chain stays the same, akin to a serial system keep building atop of the foundation.   
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September 16, 2014, 10:02:55 AM
 #12124

Pile of Shit coins can not go anywhere because you can not stop progress. Daily superior technology hits the market endlessly diluting the market. Software is cheap and easy to replace starting a new chain is no effort. It is akin to a parallel system, start again and again.
With Bitcoin progress is made too with new better miners hitting the market the technology is hardware based the chain stays the same, akin to a serial system keep building atop of the foundation.   
In software we tend to 'lock in' (excellent analysis here: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Gadget-Manifesto/dp/0307389979) but on the other hand first mover advantage is highly overestimated too (netscape, myspace, etc).

It is difficult to know the result because Bitcoin is both asset/currency/commodity/store of value etc AND software.

I guess we will learn sooner or later!
hdbuck
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September 16, 2014, 10:58:39 AM
 #12125

Pile of Shit coins can not go anywhere because you can not stop progress. Daily superior technology hits the market endlessly diluting the market. Software is cheap and easy to replace starting a new chain is no effort. It is akin to a parallel system, start again and again.
With Bitcoin progress is made too with new better miners hitting the market the technology is hardware based the chain stays the same, akin to a serial system keep building atop of the foundation.  
In software we tend to 'lock in' (excellent analysis here: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Gadget-Manifesto/dp/0307389979) but on the other hand first mover advantage is highly overestimated too (netscape, myspace, etc).

It is difficult to know the result because Bitcoin is both asset/currency/commodity/store of value etc AND software.

I guess we will learn sooner or later!

I agree but bitcoin software is about to hit the hardware limit regarding mining devices. Best Chips are 28nm so far and there is room for 22nm but it wont be as profitable beyond those nodes (intel just released their 14nm chips). My guess is that quantity should take on from there, tappering the network's overall power (hashrate). What will be the effect on btc price is puzzeling.
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September 16, 2014, 11:56:24 AM
 #12126



I agree but bitcoin software is about to hit the hardware limit regarding mining devices. Best Chips are 28nm so far and there is room for 22nm but it wont be as profitable beyond those nodes (intel just released their 14nm chips). My guess is that quantity should take on from there, tappering the network's overall power (hashrate). What will be the effect on btc price is puzzeling.

Umm...KNC already has 20nm miners.


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marcus_of_augustus
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September 16, 2014, 12:15:45 PM
 #12127



I agree but bitcoin software is about to hit the hardware limit regarding mining devices. Best Chips are 28nm so far and there is room for 22nm but it wont be as profitable beyond those nodes (intel just released their 14nm chips). My guess is that quantity should take on from there, tappering the network's overall power (hashrate). What will be the effect on btc price is puzzeling.

Umm...KNC already has 20nm miners.



good, we should hit that wall any day now then ... and materials, labour and energy costs kick in the hardest

NewLiberty
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September 16, 2014, 01:36:05 PM
 #12128

Pile of Shit coins can not go anywhere because you can not stop progress. Daily superior technology hits the market endlessly diluting the market. Software is cheap and easy to replace starting a new chain is no effort. It is akin to a parallel system, start again and again.
With Bitcoin progress is made too with new better miners hitting the market the technology is hardware based the chain stays the same, akin to a serial system keep building atop of the foundation.  
In software we tend to 'lock in' (excellent analysis here: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Gadget-Manifesto/dp/0307389979) but on the other hand first mover advantage is highly overestimated too (netscape, myspace, etc).

It is difficult to know the result because Bitcoin is both asset/currency/commodity/store of value etc AND software.

I guess we will learn sooner or later!

I agree but bitcoin software is about to hit the hardware limit regarding mining devices. Best Chips are 28nm so far and there is room for 22nm but it wont be as profitable beyond those nodes (intel just released their 14nm chips). My guess is that quantity should take on from there, tappering the network's overall power (hashrate). What will be the effect on btc price is puzzeling.

More centralization in the mining.

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HeliKopterBen
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September 16, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
 #12129

I personally think bitshares x has a better product than nxt with a truly decentralized AND collateralized market.  I believe this achievement is being overlooked because this is the first time in human history that any asset on earth can be traded with actual collateral backing up the trade (btsx) and enforced automatically by an algorithm instead of people.  This is NOT an IOU for an asset, which has been the only option in markets until now.  Also, the DPOS model will be great if it stands the test of time because of the 10s confirmation times. 

Bitcoin and nxt have both been tested with bailouts/qe/inflation with Mt gox and bter repectively and both have passed the test.  The question remains; is work truly required to give a money it's value?  This is more of a socionomic question and a bit harder to predict but I don't think so.  I believe we will see 3 to 5 dominant chains emerge with Bitcoin being the primary POW, or digital gold.  Other chains will provide other uses but their associated currencies will act as money in many cases.  The alternative is for Bitcoin to survive as the sole form of money with open transactions, side chains, or some type of m of n oracle system to provide collateralized markets with Bitcoin being collateral. 

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
klee
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September 16, 2014, 01:43:11 PM
 #12130

I personally think bitshares x has a better product than nxt with a truly decentralized AND collateralized market.  I believe this achievement is being overlooked because this is the first time in human history that any asset on earth can be traded with actual collateral backing up the trade (btsx) and enforced automatically by an algorithm instead of people.  This is NOT an IOU for an asset, which has been the only option in markets until now.  Also, the DPOS model will be great if it stands the test of time because of the 10s confirmation times. 

Bitcoin and nxt have both been tested with bailouts/qe/inflation with Mt gox and bter repectively and both have passed the test.  The question remains; is work truly required to give a money it's value?  This is more of a socionomic question and a bit harder to predict but I don't think so.  I believe we will see 3 to 5 dominant chains emerge with Bitcoin being the primary POW, or digital gold.  Other chains will provide other uses but their associated currencies will act as money in many cases.  The alternative is for Bitcoin to survive as the sole form of money with open transactions, side chains, or some type of m of n oracle system to provide collateralized markets with Bitcoin being collateral. 
I like your thoughts, I will stalk you to see on what are you up to in this forum!  Cool
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September 16, 2014, 01:52:36 PM
 #12131

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bitcoin-gold-or-both-cm391244
hdbuck
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September 16, 2014, 01:52:39 PM
 #12132

Pile of Shit coins can not go anywhere because you can not stop progress. Daily superior technology hits the market endlessly diluting the market. Software is cheap and easy to replace starting a new chain is no effort. It is akin to a parallel system, start again and again.
With Bitcoin progress is made too with new better miners hitting the market the technology is hardware based the chain stays the same, akin to a serial system keep building atop of the foundation.  
In software we tend to 'lock in' (excellent analysis here: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Gadget-Manifesto/dp/0307389979) but on the other hand first mover advantage is highly overestimated too (netscape, myspace, etc).

It is difficult to know the result because Bitcoin is both asset/currency/commodity/store of value etc AND software.

I guess we will learn sooner or later!

I agree but bitcoin software is about to hit the hardware limit regarding mining devices. Best Chips are 28nm so far and there is room for 22nm but it wont be as profitable beyond those nodes (intel just released their 14nm chips). My guess is that quantity should take on from there, tappering the network's overall power (hashrate). What will be the effect on btc price is puzzeling.

More centralization in the mining.

Cue the integrated asic mining chip in personal computers as some premium feature. Cheesy

@hunyadi arf my bad but i guess my point is still valid, not going to argue for 2nm ^^ The development & running cost for sub20 nm is unlikely to ever ROI. Could be beautiful but not very scalable. Maybe in 10 years when intel releases their 7nm chip and the technology had matured enough?!
cypherdoc
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September 16, 2014, 02:14:48 PM
 #12133

Bitcoin is going down.

Gold is not fallling.

Upside down world.

Nasty ass reversal:

cypherdoc
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September 16, 2014, 02:30:28 PM
 #12134

we got a rejection going so far off ceiling resistance:

manfred
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September 16, 2014, 02:59:53 PM
 #12135

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29221372
Hunyadi
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September 16, 2014, 03:29:17 PM
 #12136


Cue the integrated asic mining chip in personal computers as some premium feature. Cheesy

@hunyadi arf my bad but i guess my point is still valid, not going to argue for 2nm ^^ The development & running cost for sub20 nm is unlikely to ever ROI. Could be beautiful but not very scalable. Maybe in 10 years when intel releases their 7nm chip and the technology had matured enough?!

Yes, I think 20nm will be the best chip in bitcoin mining for many years to come. Also, there wasn't even very big improvement in the performance compared to 28nm.


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cypherdoc
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September 16, 2014, 04:13:38 PM
 #12137


Cue the integrated asic mining chip in personal computers as some premium feature. Cheesy

@hunyadi arf my bad but i guess my point is still valid, not going to argue for 2nm ^^ The development & running cost for sub20 nm is unlikely to ever ROI. Could be beautiful but not very scalable. Maybe in 10 years when intel releases their 7nm chip and the technology had matured enough?!

Yes, I think 20nm will be the best chip in bitcoin mining for many years to come. Also, there wasn't even very big improvement in the performance compared to 28nm.



once the chip set size becomes standardized, at least for a while, the prices for miners should come down.
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September 16, 2014, 04:15:21 PM
 #12138

the Nash Equilibrium continues to equilibrate:

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September 16, 2014, 04:16:15 PM
 #12139


Cue the integrated asic mining chip in personal computers as some premium feature. Cheesy

@hunyadi arf my bad but i guess my point is still valid, not going to argue for 2nm ^^ The development & running cost for sub20 nm is unlikely to ever ROI. Could be beautiful but not very scalable. Maybe in 10 years when intel releases their 7nm chip and the technology had matured enough?!

Yes, I think 20nm will be the best chip in bitcoin mining for many years to come. Also, there wasn't even very big improvement in the performance compared to 28nm.



once the chip set size becomes standardized, at least for a while, the prices for miners should come down.

Exactly.  Once they stop pushing to newer processes, they quit spending huge development effort on each run and just start rolling out the proven design.  Marginal cost on just the chip should be around $5, but with the first few generations, they had to pay for development costs in one run.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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September 16, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
 #12140

Bitcoin is going down.

Gold is not fallling.

Upside down world.

Nasty ass reversal:


It shouldnt correlate on a daily basis anyway.  Its a basic technical analysis rule that the longer time frames are more accurate and easier to predict then one off occurances like daily trading.   The minimum really is weekly bars due to the weekend forcing day traders to flush their positions (every short is a buy eventually Tongue)  Obviously there are bigger fisher and most options are quarterly but I take weekly as minimum for proper comparison personally

Quote
Cue the integrated asic mining chip in personal computers as some premium feature.

Shouldnt we expect a distributed network to eventually become commonplace not a tendency towards specialisation as bitcoin mining has currently lent towards



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