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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010864 times)
Wekkel
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February 20, 2015, 09:08:25 AM
 #21401

Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.

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February 20, 2015, 09:14:33 AM
 #21402

Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.

To me, this is a wonderful example of new technology forcing intelligence into beneficial action. I agree, the point is valid - I just disagree with the conclusions the author of the zero hedge piece derived from it.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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February 20, 2015, 09:20:52 AM
 #21403

Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.

I think you can secure it well dividing the bitcoins in a few addresses and using cold storage, bank safe, multi sig signature.
Nothing is 100% safe; big banks were just robbed 300 millions last week.

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February 20, 2015, 12:47:08 PM
 #21404

"It is too risky for regular people. Too complicated to learn to use and secure properly." - this argument gets thrown around a lot and all I can think of when I hear it is:

"Something which forces people to turn on their brains, learn a new skill and take responsibility for some part of their lives? How is that a bad thing?"

Do we sit here and bemoan our opinion that "regular" people are too stupid? Or do we applaud the fact, that technology is forcing people to acquire new skills and evolve, as it has always done?

"Using Bitcoin will make you smarter" - there's a new meme for you

Agree with you, but there are also people in this world who are maybe not computer-illiterate, but very close to it. Be it because of their age, social status, whatever else  comes to mind. They are used to use fiat money and have absolutely no interest in changing that, because for them such a change means an unnecessary effort they have to do that makes their everyday life more complex than it is today. And I think that is quite considerable group of people that shouldn't be underestimated.

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ErisDiscordia
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February 20, 2015, 12:54:17 PM
 #21405

"It is too risky for regular people. Too complicated to learn to use and secure properly." - this argument gets thrown around a lot and all I can think of when I hear it is:

"Something which forces people to turn on their brains, learn a new skill and take responsibility for some part of their lives? How is that a bad thing?"

Do we sit here and bemoan our opinion that "regular" people are too stupid? Or do we applaud the fact, that technology is forcing people to acquire new skills and evolve, as it has always done?

"Using Bitcoin will make you smarter" - there's a new meme for you

Agree with you, but there are also people in this world who are maybe not computer-illiterate, but very close to it. Be it because of their age, social status, whatever else  comes to mind.

Absolutely, there they are and there are many of them. The question in my mind is how did they get like that and do we want to keep them that way? But I think this is getting too far off-topic now.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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February 20, 2015, 01:15:33 PM
 #21406

...
"Something which forces people to turn on their brains, learn a new skill and take responsibility for some part of their lives? How is that a bad thing?"


"Using your brain" means finding simpler, quicker, "smarter" way to do things.
Learning the most complicated, convoluted & hilariously error-prone way of reaching the same ends is just plain stupid.*

*Unless you're Rube Goldberg.


Wekkel
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February 20, 2015, 02:22:38 PM
 #21407

People do not necessarily have to change (I am still not using Linux, but my Internet content is served for 80% or more by Linux servers). The average person only needs a solution that works.

Execution, baby.

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February 20, 2015, 02:35:04 PM
 #21408

People do not necessarily have to change (I am still not using Linux, but my Internet content is served for 80% or more by Linux servers). The average person only needs a solution that works.

Execution, baby.

A lot of people are, whether they know it or not.

Quote
Research company Canalys estimated in the second quarter of 2009 that Android had a 2.8% share of worldwide smartphone shipments.[209] By the fourth quarter of 2010 this had grown to 33% of the market, becoming the top-selling smartphone platform,[210] overtaking Symbian.[211] By the third quarter of 2011 Gartner estimated that more than half (52.5%) of the smartphone sales belonged to Android.[212] By the third quarter of 2012 Android had a 75% share of the global smartphone market according to the research firm IDC.[213]

In July 2011, Google said that 550,000 new Android devices were being activated every day,[214] up from 400,000 per day in May,[215] and more than 100 million devices had been activated[216] with 4.4% growth per week.[214] In September 2012, 500 million devices had been activated with 1.3 million activations per day.[217][218] In May 2013, at Google I/O, Sundar Pichai announced that 900 million Android devices had been activated.[219]
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February 20, 2015, 03:24:31 PM
 #21409

People do not necessarily have to change (I am still not using Linux, but my Internet content is served for 80% or more by Linux servers). The average person only needs a solution that works.

Execution, baby.
Now, tell that your grandmother/grandfather.

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February 20, 2015, 04:11:21 PM
 #21410

http://www.dougengelbart.org/about/engelbarts-law.html
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February 20, 2015, 04:50:52 PM
 #21411

Still, it is not an invalid point. How will a large institution safeguard an enormous pile of Bitcoin value If all depends on a private key. Pointing this out as a negative will start the thinking about a positive: a solution.

It needs some more infrastructure, that's all.

I think you can secure it well dividing the bitcoins in a few addresses and using cold storage, bank safe, multi sig signature.
Nothing is 100% safe; big banks were just robbed 300 millions last week.

Unlike Gox they write it off and carry on with there fractional reserves.

The point discussed is valid, it reminded me of Dos in the 80's I used computer programs and learned the system OS so I could optimize my operating efficiency, while computers are a lot faster they are only marginally more efficient for the tasks I use.

The problem being they have been dumbed down so I don't need to know how to optimize the core OS. In reality my computer is so smart at being dumb I just have to adapt.

I hope Bitcoin's fate isn't the same as the command prompt in computing.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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February 20, 2015, 05:04:44 PM
 #21412


A quite good summary, but I loled at "would cause a disruptive ripple effect in society".
My brain is like "Ripple, nooooo!" Grin
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February 20, 2015, 05:25:03 PM
 #21413

Did you guys see the Lenovo blow up today, this is on the order of Sony's rootkit fiasco.

Lenovo PCs ship with man-in-the-middle adware that breaks HTTPS connections
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-man-in-the-middle-adware-that-breaks-https-connections/

At least with Lenovo I can choose not to deal with them. However when it comes to money I have to deal with FED dollars and banks like HSBC. Oh wait, no I don't  Wink
It will be interesting to see if the US tech industry survives, or if this is the beginning of the end.

There's some pretty strong poison in that well, and surely we've only seen the tip of the iceberg so far.
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February 20, 2015, 06:28:44 PM
 #21414

Did you guys see the Lenovo blow up today, this is on the order of Sony's rootkit fiasco.

Lenovo PCs ship with man-in-the-middle adware that breaks HTTPS connections
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-man-in-the-middle-adware-that-breaks-https-connections/

At least with Lenovo I can choose not to deal with them. However when it comes to money I have to deal with FED dollars and banks like HSBC. Oh wait, no I don't  Wink
It will be interesting to see if the US tech industry survives, or if this is the beginning of the end.

There's some pretty strong poison in that well, and surely we've only seen the tip of the iceberg so far.

Lenovo is a Chinese company, Sony a Japanese company..... (Yes Lenovo's PC came from IBM, but that was years ago and the transfer was complete a while ago.)

If anything this is reinforcing "buy american" in people's minds.
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February 20, 2015, 06:47:15 PM
 #21415

Did you guys see the Lenovo blow up today, this is on the order of Sony's rootkit fiasco.

Lenovo PCs ship with man-in-the-middle adware that breaks HTTPS connections
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/02/lenovo-pcs-ship-with-man-in-the-middle-adware-that-breaks-https-connections/

At least with Lenovo I can choose not to deal with them. However when it comes to money I have to deal with FED dollars and banks like HSBC. Oh wait, no I don't  Wink
It will be interesting to see if the US tech industry survives, or if this is the beginning of the end.

There's some pretty strong poison in that well, and surely we've only seen the tip of the iceberg so far.

Lenovo is a Chinese company, Sony a Japanese company..... (Yes Lenovo's PC came from IBM, but that was years ago and the transfer was complete a while ago.)

If anything this is reinforcing "buy american" in people's minds.

or it could just very well be that the average Joe/Lee actually dgaf..
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February 20, 2015, 08:13:39 PM
 #21416

Interesting:

"Another interesting fact that caught Wizsec’s eyes was the Willy’s static nature during the Japanese sleeping hours. The Mt. Gox bot was supposed to be automatic, but as it turns out there was hardly any trading activity. This speculation multiplied the belief that the bot was actually being controlled manually — probably by Mark Karpeles."





http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/05/27/mtgox-willy-markus/
I follow this guy on twitter and I admire him, but the article doesn't make much sense:

"For a pump and dump, there has to be a quick pump (buy action) to generate mass momentum, followed by a dump.
In this case, there was no quick pump; the buy orders were deliberately smeared across a very long time period. And there was no dump until the very end stage.
It's as simple as that. No fast pump, no dump, therefore not a pump and dump."


^^^What? This is false. A pump&dump doesn't have to be executed quickly to be a pump&dump, unless we are talking half a year to a year. The $1200 pump lasted two to three months. 2-3 months is a small time frame for a pump of that magnitude.

Large buys like those WILL have a BIG impact on the price, whether made in smaller chunks or not (impossible to buy that quantity of coins in a few market buys, literally impossible).


Also, is the author completely ignoring the fact that one of the mtgox bots (markus I believe) was buying with FAKE FIAT (amounts of money mtgox didn't actually have)? He didn't mention that.
Markus bought a gigantic quantity of BTC basically for free and Emin argues that that doesn't indicate any fraudulent activity?

you don't know it was FAKE FIAT.

gox could've been buying on behalf of a large whale.  plus, volumes on Chinese exchanges were large at the time.

What about all the bots shorting the market now with FAKE BITCOIN. 

I don't really believe in market manipulation on a wide scale, especially since we have a publicly verifiable blockchain, but it could be happening.

yes, it could be.  i'm suspicious of BitFinex.  an audit of them would be worthwhile.

i'd love for naked shorts to be caught with their pants down, if it is occurring, and watch them scramble for a bailout in fiat.

Bolded for emphasis.  Cheesy

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February 20, 2015, 08:48:02 PM
 #21417


A quite good summary, but I loled at "would cause a disruptive ripple effect in society".
My brain is like "Ripple, nooooo!" Grin

Ha, yeah, I cringe every time someone mentions the word "Ripple"
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February 20, 2015, 10:51:06 PM
 #21418

The current public image of bitcoin:

The ISIS angle
The money laundering angle
The trust us, we can break anything on the net angle
The illegal trade angle
The regulation angle
The danger dealing with strangers angle


This is just the MSM revving up their engine. They still don't know what is going to hit them, but they sense it is something dangerous.

Anyway, don't lose faith, this is only growing pains for bitcoin. The internet had it, computer cryptography had it, the video cassette had it, even the postcard had it.


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February 20, 2015, 11:24:08 PM
 #21419

molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

yes, unfortunately. At least they're not using your xpub key to transfer addresses to watch, so they don't know your future keys (except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead).

That's my biggest criticism with myTrezor and it's why I switched to electrum as soon as the development code had trezor working. It's not perfect with electrum, either, but better (I don't know exactly what, but they do some stuff to increase privacy towards server operators).

I went to the hassle of running my own electrum server (public, of course, so I can hide in the masses when broadcasting transactions). Feel free to use it (electrum.0x0000.de), I'm not logging anything or looking at the traffic in any way.


How could they overlook such an obvious privacy violation when designing the wallet?   It should be a local client that broadcasts tx's out  to the network.
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February 20, 2015, 11:37:47 PM
 #21420

molecular:

can the Trezor ppl see our balances and tx's while the Trezor is logged into myTrezor.com?

yes, unfortunately. At least they're not using your xpub key to transfer addresses to watch, so they don't know your future keys (except the 5 or so per account they scan ahead).

That's my biggest criticism with myTrezor and it's why I switched to electrum as soon as the development code had trezor working. It's not perfect with electrum, either, but better (I don't know exactly what, but they do some stuff to increase privacy towards server operators).

I went to the hassle of running my own electrum server (public, of course, so I can hide in the masses when broadcasting transactions). Feel free to use it (electrum.0x0000.de), I'm not logging anything or looking at the traffic in any way.


How could they overlook such an obvious privacy violation when designing the wallet?   It should be a local client that broadcasts tx's out  to the network.

The broadcast isn't the only privacy problem inherent to the client/server thin wallet design, watching for incoming money another one.

They didn't overlook it, they accepted it for lack of a good solution.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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