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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009950 times)
marcus_of_augustus
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February 28, 2015, 12:34:05 AM
 #21601

Everybody is saying Bitcoin is the like TCP/IP layer protocol for internet money, what if the blockchain tech. is more analogous to the firmware level (assembly, microcode, etc) and we haven't even imagined the eventual value transport routing protocol layer developments yet??

bitcoin - the transistor of money?


yup, attribution please, you heard it here first. Wink

Hmm.  So what is the IC?  

yeah, the analogy falls apart quite quickly and all will as it has no direct precedence. Since block chain programming is more of an abstract concept, albeit with a very real working implementation, it is more like the first demonstration of an instruction set (actually who came up with the first concept of an instruction set?) … an instruction set architecture with execution on a massively distributed virtual machine (the bitcoin network) for programmable immutable objects of value.

Edit: In fact, a good analogy would be the ENIAC of money, world's first computer of money.

This is the realization that ethereum grasped when conceiving their copy, yet to be executed.

hope it isn't analogous to the first floating point operation,  - the flop of money?

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Erdogan
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February 28, 2015, 02:20:55 AM
 #21602

It's quite likely we passed a complexity point where a small group of people can't perfectly manage this system around the end of the last century.

any systems related to human society have always been to complex to handle efficiently by a small group of people. The delusion that they can do so efficiently is a dangerous one and lies at the root of pretty much every problem human society is facing today. The basic problem has to do with information not being able to flow without distortions in a centralized system and executive power not lying where there is the biggest abundance of relevant information (with the individuals directly involved with a given situation)

Indeed. Mises "calculation problem".

I think the delay between the onset of serious central planning meddling, and systemic collapse, is simply due to the sheer size of an economic system and the inertia which is latent. So Zimbabwe will collapse faster than Venezuela which collapses faster than Japan, assuming a similar progression of centralized control.


The main problem with information flows in centralized systems is a chronic lack of feedback. In human systems there is even incentive for the conscious distortion of information - you won't tell your boss any sort of information you think might get you fired. Thus even when decisions are made in good-will (which is often doubtful, seeing how corrupting an influence the power at the top of centralized systems is), they are based on wildly inaccurate information. Now armed with false assumptions the individual(s) in power make decisions, which would have unforeseen consequences even if they have had absolutely accurate information because the system they are operating on is so complex. It is like removing an appendix with a chainsaw - you can't possibly now in advance what else you'll mess up. The instrument (in our case the human mind) is just too crude for the level of complexity it is dealing with. This is nothing new, but it warrants restating.

To make matters worse, the unforeseen consequences can take a long time in showing up - years or even decades in the case of systems as complex as national economies - just like you said. These then get misinterpreted, too and a clusterfuck of gigantic proportions is usually the ongoing result from all of this. Centralization? Just say NO, kids.


And... the important interest rate, which is an input to demand for money, demand to consume, and demand for long term investment, and demand for short term investment, is distorted to a degree never before seen. Basically, the world economy is a ship with no rudder, only for this reason.

cypherdoc
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February 28, 2015, 03:07:45 AM
 #21603

why would one want to hold onto Hryvnia?

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.nl/2015/02/panic-in-ukraine-over-food-empty-stores.html
AnalizeSituation
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February 28, 2015, 03:08:55 AM
 #21604

Yes lat days bitcoin price grow up i hope this be price how in 2013

1200$  Roll Eyes

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Erdogan
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February 28, 2015, 03:44:10 AM
 #21605


Daytraders maybe, because it rose from 33 to the dollar yesterday to 27 today.

Wekkel
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February 28, 2015, 11:22:36 AM
 #21606

The universal success of centralization and nation-states speaks for itself, as does nonexistence of alternative.
Face it, if [insert libertardian/anarcap flavor here] worked better than centralization, it would have displaced centralisation.
Why is this still being discussed?

The feudal lords vanished also at a certain point. No stopping this one.

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cypherdoc
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February 28, 2015, 03:32:31 PM
 #21607

molecular, what is the source of randomness inside the Trezor?
Kupsi
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February 28, 2015, 04:51:26 PM
 #21608

molecular, what is the source of randomness inside the Trezor?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2d36lb/is_the_trezor_seed_entropy_truly_and_provably/cjlmv90
cypherdoc
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February 28, 2015, 04:52:58 PM
 #21609

interesting take by Wences Cesares on Greek adoption of Bitcoin:

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/28/why-greece-should-not-switch-to-bitcoin/
cypherdoc
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February 28, 2015, 04:56:14 PM
 #21610


reading those links and not fully understanding the code, those links don't answer my question.

is the hardware drawing from a entropy source, like static electricity?  or is it algorithmically generated?
lebing
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February 28, 2015, 05:07:11 PM
 #21611

interesting take by Wences Cesares on Greek adoption of Bitcoin:

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/28/why-greece-should-not-switch-to-bitcoin/

Wences is a smart guy. This is basically clickbait for the schadenfreude crowd. Then they read it and it makes them think about what money is and what bitcoin's role is.

Bro, do you even blockchain?
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cypherdoc
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February 28, 2015, 06:30:56 PM
 #21612

interesting take by Wences Cesares on Greek adoption of Bitcoin:

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/28/why-greece-should-not-switch-to-bitcoin/

Wences is a smart guy. This is basically clickbait for the schadenfreude crowd. Then they read it and it makes them think about what money is and what bitcoin's role is.

At first glance, proponents of Bitcoin reading the title would get alarmed but upon deeper reading he's saying that gubmint objectives in terms of monetary thrift are oftentimes diametrically opposed to those of their people. Which nowadays is the majority of the time.
mrhelpful
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February 28, 2015, 06:37:10 PM
 #21613

A problem greece cant fix it based on production.

They have no export/import things from their own country. Meanwhile china, we all love almost everything we have here in the U.S is "Made in China" so it creates millionaires for them.

Greece is nothing but a tourist attraction, unless they understand their own mechanics to the problem.
cypherdoc
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February 28, 2015, 07:07:10 PM
 #21614

Sigh, what an idiot:

http://justsecurity.org/20304/transcript-nsa-director-mike-rogers-vs-yahoo-encryption-doors/
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February 28, 2015, 07:10:39 PM
 #21615

A problem greece cant fix it based on production.

They have no export/import things from their own country. Meanwhile china, we all love almost everything we have here in the U.S is "Made in China" so it creates millionaires for them.

Greece is nothing but a tourist attraction, unless they understand their own mechanics to the problem.

Well, if they don't export anything, then Bitcoin theoretically would be precisely the type of currency the Greek people should want to adopt. It goes up in value over the long run as well their purchasing power. Just sit back and consume.
molecular
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February 28, 2015, 08:03:08 PM
 #21616

interesting take by Wences Cesares on Greek adoption of Bitcoin:

http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/28/why-greece-should-not-switch-to-bitcoin/

I love this part:

Quote from: Wences Cesares
Yanis Varoufakis, Greece’s new Finance Minister, agrees that because it is deflationary, bitcoin would be bad for Greece. But he goes on to say that bitcoin is a flawed currency because it is deflationary. This misses the point. Bitcoin is not a currency for a government; it is a global currency for the people.

It's spot on.

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molecular
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February 28, 2015, 08:18:30 PM
 #21617


reading those links and not fully understanding the code, those links don't answer my question.

is the hardware drawing from a entropy source, like static electricity?  or is it algorithmically generated?

I don't know.

I've been searching for info for the hardware RNG on the cortex m3 (used on trezor) but failed.

All I could find was this:

Quote
Random Number Generator (RNG) is supported by the AES API and passes the
following tests:
– diehard
– FIPS_140-1
– NIST

In general a "true hardware random number generator" indeed uses some sort of hardware entropy source.

I'd be quite interested in the specifics regarding trezor myself, so if anyone can find any info, I'd be thankful for a post.

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justusranvier
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February 28, 2015, 09:05:45 PM
 #21618

A problem greece cant fix it based on production.

They have no export/import things from their own country. Meanwhile china, we all love almost everything we have here in the U.S is "Made in China" so it creates millionaires for them.

Greece is nothing but a tourist attraction, unless they understand their own mechanics to the problem.

Well, if they don't export anything, then Bitcoin theoretically would be precisely the type of currency the Greek people should want to adopt. It goes up in value over the long run as well their purchasing power. Just sit back and consume.
Bitcoin still doesn't save them.

They could buy up the bitcoins with whatever euros they have on hand, but then they'll still need to spend their bitcoins.

If they are trying to spend more than they earn - no matter what currency is involved - eventually they'll run out of money.
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February 28, 2015, 09:38:57 PM
 #21619

A problem greece cant fix it based on production.

They have no export/import things from their own country. Meanwhile china, we all love almost everything we have here in the U.S is "Made in China" so it creates millionaires for them.

Greece is nothing but a tourist attraction, unless they understand their own mechanics to the problem.

Well, if they don't export anything, then Bitcoin theoretically would be precisely the type of currency the Greek people should want to adopt. It goes up in value over the long run as well their purchasing power. Just sit back and consume.
Bitcoin still doesn't save them.

They could buy up the bitcoins with whatever euros they have on hand, but then they'll still need to spend their bitcoins.

If they are trying to spend more than they earn - no matter what currency is involved - eventually they'll run out of money.
Not unless the amount of purchasing power in bitcoin increases exponentially compared to the amount they invested.. They essentially offload their debt like how us does it with usd a la qe

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February 28, 2015, 09:42:55 PM
 #21620

Greece is nothing but a tourist attraction, unless they understand their own mechanics to the problem.

Tourism is an export product.

Probably countries like Greece that have nice islands, beaches, history, etc. would be better off focusing on having an efficient tourism industry than trying to do things that China does better.
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